US denies French fighters emergency landing rights in a critical situation

Thanks Realist05 for that info, I remembered the story but the facts had gotten fuzzy with age.

As for France, yes, to my knowledge they are technically an ally and have been for some time. However, there is quite a large anti France feeling in the US and I suspect the French feel the same about us. But hey, we still visit each others countries and we haven't tried to invade each other........yet.

Seems to me that the French were victims of a bloated beauraucracy, and not a deliberate snub. By the time the request went up the chain of command at the airfield, the planes would have been in the water. It's a sad fact that the French could not use the airfield, but it's an even sadder fact that they had to do anything more than ask.

This is just another example of a bloated, ineffective, and slow moving government beauraucracy.

www.pressofatlanticcity.com...

[edit on 6/13/2005 by soulforge]

My question still stands, if british harriers where forced in the same situation....would they be allowed to land?

Originally posted by soulforge
Seems to me that the French were victims of a bloated beauraucracy, and not a deliberate snub. By the time the request went up the chain of command at the airfield, the planes would have been in the water. It's a sad fact that the French could not use the airfield, but it's an even sadder fact that they had to do anything more than ask.

This is just another example of a bloated, ineffective, and slow moving government beauraucracy.

May I ask how it is that the US can be such a bloated ineffective and slow moving government beaurauracy yet be such master minds at mass coverups? So where are there Einsteins of America hiding these days?

We have had to ask for many things too and been denied I am sure so the French can get over it already and understand that not everyone gets along all the time. No offense.

Originally posted by NWguy83

The U.S has bases in other countries because those governments let us have bases there.


[edit on 13-6-2005 by NWguy83]

Well, I should hope so!

I'm well aware of that fact. I've spent a lot of time on overseas bases. The point is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we have bases in half the world, with the permission of half the world, then we should at least reciprocate by aiding our allies in need. France isn't just any ally, either, it's a fellow NATO member, which implies a high degree of military trust for peacetime activities.

-koji K.

Actually, although France is a MAJOR ally , they are not members of NATO, its more a case of them being allied with NATO.

stealth spy,

am no expert on history, but why is it there is always an undercurrent of hate for the French in the British. ??

Maybe hate is too strong a word, dislike and mistrust are more usual. Neither is it universal, hell, my own cousin married a froggy!


I suppose you must take that in the context that the 20th century was the first in more than a thousand years where Britain (or more accurately England) and France didn't go to war against each other.

Originally posted by waynos
Actually, although France is a MAJOR ally , they are not members of NATO, its more a case of them being allied with NATO.

stealth spy,

am no expert on history, but why is it there is always an undercurrent of hate for the French in the British. ??

Maybe hate is too strong a word, dislike and mistrust are more usual. Neither is it universal, hell, my own cousin married a froggy!

I suppose you must take that in the context that the 20th century was the first in more than a thousand years where Britain (or more accurately England) and France didn't go to war against each other.

Actually, France is a full fledged NATO member state. It is also the third biggest contributor to NATOs military and civilian budget.

www.nato.int...

www.nato.int...

-koji K.

I apologise, my information was hopelessly out of date, I was unaware that Frances withdrawal from NATO had ever been reversed.

The way i see it, America must be eternally indebted to France as French aid was a very very significant reason(arguably the sole most important reason) for American Independence.

The french barely helped in the revolution, giving them any credit is ridiculous.

The french were saved not once, but twice in both world wars! They should now cater to American interests.

Originally posted by devilwasp
My question still stands, if british harriers where forced in the same situation....would they be allowed to land?

Of course, most likely anyways.

I think France is only a political member of NATO, they are not member of the NATO military command and such. At least, it was so some time ago...

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

Originally posted by devilwasp
My question still stands, if british harriers where forced in the same situation....would they be allowed to land?

Of course, most likely anyways.

I totally doubt British planes would be allowed to land without a wait of more than a hour, which, I bet, the French planes would have had to wait, and then they would have been allowed.

But, at 300 mph, they could have flown to Canada by then...

Sometime I wonder why I am on a conspiracy website. Not EVERYTHING is an organized government conspiracy. If anything, this was a DIS-organized government conspiracy. Idiots will be idiots, whether they work for the government or not...

[edit on 6/13/2005 by soulforge]

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

The way i see it, America must be eternally indebted to France as French aid was a very very significant reason(arguably the sole most important reason) for American Independence.

The french barely helped in the revolution, giving them any credit is ridiculous.

The french were saved not once, but twice in both world wars! They should now cater to American interests.

Actually their support was a pretty big deal. I am not a big fan of current French political actions, but to give credit where credit is due, they certainly helped out a great deal during the Revolution.

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
Of course, most likely anyways.

Then why are we better than the french?

Because your more cooperative than the French are with us, so we will be more cooperative with you, simple but affective

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Because your more cooperative than the French are with us, so we will be more cooperative with you, simple but affective

Yeah se british lives are placed above french lives?
Frankly that disgusts me...

DW they did not die! If there was no other airport available they would have been allowed to land, but since there was a civilian airport close by they were directed there.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
DW they did not die!

That is not the point. The point is that americans place british lives over others.
I as a british citizen am asking WHY.

If there was no other airport available they would have been allowed to land, but since there was a civilian airport close by they were directed there.

Really?
So we should trust the word of someone who is unwilling to obey the basic laws of air and sea fareing.

How are we placing your lives above others?

And DW I said that out of common sense the Air Base would have had no choice but to let them land if there was no other airport nearby, they wouldn't just let them drop out of the sky.

Maybe if Stealth Spy would look at a map once in a while the answer to why the flight was directed to the Atlantic City International Airport would become immediately obvious. (Namely that McGuire is NOT in southern NJ)

The flight was coming from off of the NJ coast line. Where off the NJ coast? Now since we know their carrier was in Norfolk, VA in or around that time it is safe to assume that they would have been approaching NJ from the South East. If you will turn your attention to link #1 & 2 you will see that McGuire AFB is near Trenton, NJ. If the French fighters were in such danger why would they want to fly half way across NJ to land? The closest airport was not McGuire but Atlantic City International Airport!

My guess they called on a freq. that they knew would get an answer. Requested permission to land, because they did not have any better grasp of NJ than Stealth Spy has, and informed McGuire of their situation. The controller did what IS standard procedure and got clearance for them to land at a CLOSER airport.

Period. End of Story. In fact this is a Non-Story! The good old USAF was looking out for the aircrew and their aircrafts.

McGuire AFB/FT. Dix Location:

1. Google map image of McGuire/FT.Dix location: maps.google.com...,-74.906159&sll=39.976562,-74.906159&spn=1.781250,4.556134&sspn=1.781250,4.556134&hl=en


2. Global Security Info on McGuire AFB:
www.globalsecurity.org...

Google map image of Atlantic City International Airport: maps.google.com...,-74.565715&spn=0.111328,0.284758&hl=en







BTW Stealth Spy: Great source for your article. *sarcasm*