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The Mind Dimension

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posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 09:58 AM
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I certaintly know that everything cannot be known, and moreso that is not really the importance, "knowing everything" rather than knowning everything makes sense. The World and the Universe makes sense. I will never know everything about it, but it would be rational and understandable. Even the infinite universe can be rationally understood. I may not be able to do it, but it is possible.

The Human Brain breaks that perfect assumption. Its the most random, senseless, difficult to understand object I can think of.

And you know the reasons why...

Btw, Excellent post, even though I'd like to give people like Plato and Aristotle far more credit than anyone else. They are the pillars of rational thinking.




posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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even though I'd like to give people like Plato and Aristotle far more credit than anyone else.


And I, if I expanded on the comment, would include Artists and Mystics of course. I have great respect for a huge number of indivduals down through the ages.


I just wrote something to the effect of 'the rational mind forms the very framework of the questions in the way it wishes them formed' hence influencing the result. If you believe there is an objective, I like to say collective, 'truth' then the rational mind is the tool by which we 'see' that truth.


So here is a question for examination:

What is a rational explaination? What does that mean exactly, what sets the standards by which 'rational' is based?


A.T
(-)



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:34 AM
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If any of you haven't read it yet, and have some time on your hands, Freud's Interpretation of Dreams is a good read pertaining to the whole do dreams have meanings and can you analyze them stuff. Here is a link to it if ya want


eserver.org...

[edit on 24-6-2005 by xxblackoctoberxx]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:29 AM
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Personal interpretations of dreams can not come from any book or psychologist.
The symbolism in the dreams must be taken into account with the activities and emotional state of the organism, not flat generalizations based on other people's work.

Dreams are influenced by brain chemicals, there is no doubt.
For instance cannabis users do not fall into prolonged REM sleep, ill effects of this I'm not sure about, I've not seen any. REM sleep is where people also experience "night terrors", ie, dreaming yet awake and aware of their current surroundings, yet with the addition of hallucinationa and paralysis.

Love is a chemical reaction, and activates the addiction centers of the brain. Science fact folks.

Deja vu...I can't explain. The scientific explanation given early in the thread doesn't make any sense. How can the brain confuse the past with the present if the people, place, and conversation of the deja vu experience are entirely new to the person, yet they have a complete recollection at the time of the occurance that all of this has happened before, even as it is happening? Deja vu doesn't always come from dreams either. Perhaps the past/present confusion is very of the moment, where the brain places the very very recent recent in the context of long ago and then again suddenly now.
Then it sounds plausible.

Another plausible explanation could be that, in the dream state, since time is totaly irrelevant, and we are concsiously unaware of 99% of what occurs to us in 8 hours of sleeping, every day, over a life time, then perhaps our minds have actually played out possible scenarious of our entire life, a thousand times.

When we finally reach a point on our life's path that is parrallel to some dream imagery, the deja vu experience is evoked. This sounds possible. Our brain in dream mode can be running thousands of calculations that we are entirely unaware of during conscious life.

As to there being a "dimension" of the mind, that is called the astral plane, the etheric plane, spirit aethyer's, etc.
I know there have been more names for it. Obviously if our brain/body is generating energy, that energy like a light bulb or radio signal must be transmitted on some frequency, somewhere, to some receiver.
Right now you are being bombarded by every radio signal on earth, and are unaware of it.
Its possible we are all being bombarded by every thought on earth, and for the sake of sanity, our brain has a kill switch to tune all this out. But if you can find the right state of mind, tuning in should be possible. Just because we haven't done this scientifically yet, doesn't mean we can't.
It took us four million years to invent a radio, a tv, or computer. Its only a matter of time.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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I think there is alot more capacity in our human brain than we think. It is just, very simply, part of our evolution, which we are eventually more used and used to,
it's kinda scary if you think about the fact that we have not accomplished our potential yet.....



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Legalizer gets my "Defender of Science" award!
(The actual award is knowing that you explained everything that seems so mysterious to everyone else)

I still say dreams have no meaning and are just random gibberish of the subconcious, like everything else from that pit of the mind.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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The symbolism in the dreams must be taken into account with the activities and emotional state of the organism, not flat generalizations based on other people's work.


Half-right I think. We do share cultural icons and many other things that are part of the landscape of Dreams. However it is vital to mix in a healthy dose of direct knowledge of the person.




Dreams are influenced by brain chemicals, there is no doubt.


Sure, influenced, and just as with Love but before or after the event exactly? I am fairly certain we do not as yet understand Love and that is not for want of study. We know what it does, and lots of things that influence it, but there remains a core of unknown.




It took us four million years to invent a radio, a tv, or computer. Its only a matter of time.


True, and something I want to get into in a bit.


Raideur, and Everyone

I would like to hear everyone's version of what a Rational Explaination actually means. Raideur you use the phrase a lot, so I know you have your own personal definition to share.

A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/24/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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Rational?

I would say something that does not #1 Conflict with the obvious laws of science, and #2 something that does not seem to conflict with basic reasoning.

Something may seem acceptable, but if it breaks a fundemental law of nature, its probably bogus...
Same thing goes for it being scientifically airtight, but just sounds so incredibly fishy you find it hard to believe.

This does leave quite a bit of room for something in between these two, but they very rarely conflict with each other.
And thus, the world is mostly common sense.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Yep I pretty much agree with Raideur. Basically an answer that is logical and when you look at the explanation you can take what is being said and prove it and see that it in fact does work out.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Both magic and emotions violate my two rationlizing systems, and thus my hostility toward both.

See? I dislike everything for a reason. Everything has a reason....except the above two topics..



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 03:55 AM
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Ok, so Laws of Science and Common Sense

Common Sense is not very common.

That is a folk phrase, I have no idea if anyone has ever been credited with it. But I think it expresses the reality that what we call Common Sense or basic reasoning is a somewhat shaky construct.

What we really mean by this term is the 'individual and unique subset of human knowledge that an individual has put together into their Rules and Laws of Reality'. We agree on general principles, sorta, mostly, but it is in the end very this is both personal and subjective.

The Laws are Rules, we change them over time. Reality is what it is, the fact that we do not understand 99% of it does not matter to it. So while Science, a remarkable tool to be sure, spends the next 1,000, or 100,000, or One Million years figureing out things we are left to exist in the midst of what we do not understand.

If you set your bare foot on a red or white hot piece of coal you will burn. Common sense right. But if 20 people spend 10 minutes chanting your name, if a powerful leader tells you that he knows you can do it, you do not burn.

Science is a wonderful tool, but it is a tool. As such there are some things which while nevertheless existing are not within Science's range. When I know who is on the phone before I hear their voice over the machine I know if I was expecting the call, or had any other possible way to even make the guess. Sometimes it is beyond all reason, but it happens.

Rather than being the enemy, or filled only with things that cloud the rational mind, the Intution is the Intellect of the SubCon. It is different, runs on different principles, but it is half of who we really are. Put them together and you have the only possible tool that can investigate all of Reality.


A.T
(-)



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Oh those coal walkers are the biggest load of !@$#.....

If you do it wrong, you get second degree burns regardless of what anyone says to you. If you let the coals create a layer of ash before walking, and let your feet sit in a tub of ice cold water for a few minutes before walking, you will not be burnt.

Human perception will always be questioned, and I cannot defend myself from that problem. However, the vast majority of us agree on the basic perpective.

I would define common sense as deductive reasoning without the need for paper and pencil. Anyone could argue against that, but thats what I would label it as.



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Besides there being the dimensions of space and time, maybe there is one of mind, which is alot different so it is harder to control or know whats going on.


the egyptian philosophers considered that the mind might be a seperate entity all in itself, and that when you die your mind splits apart from the soul and travels through a different astral dooor.

upon reflection of your thoughs and comments it raises some seemingly difficult ideas, about mind matter and not the dualality but wholeality. being the one or center frame work of the mind you may conclude that the minds eye might be the single entity harboring your very existance, seeing as you are you the world is only seen in your NOW.

recolection of past instances with mind matter, begs the question are the massive coralations of infintismal nutrino particles the mirror of the mind? or is it a product of an M field hyper demension?

what i am for sure of however that within the mind faith in the LORD has an insurrmountable effect on mind fatigue and a pivital asset to ones own mind integrety. stength of mind will solidify truth and fruition of love and happiness.

-stu

[edit on 26-6-2005 by sturod84]



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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What if my mind rejects those ideas, am I screwed?

Btw it does..



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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I remember reading somewhere about a study that was done on REM sleep. They had a two set of participants get the same amount of sleep. One set was awaken when sign of REM started to appear. The other set was awaken when REM was over. However each set got the same amount of sleep. What they found was the set that didn’t get any REM sleep started feeling delusional, getting mood swings and even hallucinations. The other set was just a little tired but fine. So I think that this experiment proved that dreaming is a big part of who we are and when you don’t get enough of it you start to lose your mind. Forgive the pun.



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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www.spiritual.com.au...

This will explain what some of you are speaking of. It is an akashic plane in the astrial world where past past and future can be observed it you've reach the level of attainmant.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
www.spiritual.com.au...

This will explain what some of you are speaking of. It is an akashic plane in the astrial world where past past and future can be observed it you've reach the level of attainmant.


Oh man that just triggered some good memories. My parents used to tell me about the Akashic records that record everything and anything have ever happened, physically and mentally.

You're right the akashic plane sounds a lot like what i was describing, thats cool



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
So I think that this experiment proved that dreaming is a big part of who we are and when you don’t get enough of it you start to lose your mind. Forgive the pun.


What I think the experiment proved, is that if someone annoys you all night long, you will revert to animal kill instincts, wether you want to or not. Seriously, this experiment could have been better controled with drugs that allowed people to sleep...but did not allow REM sleep...cannabis is a good safe bet for this experiment. Waking people up at the moment of REM is EVIL, pure putrid and slimy.


I really need to sleep, I'm getting cranky.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by Legalizer

What I think the experiment proved, is that if someone annoys you all night long, you will revert to animal kill instincts, wether you want to or not.

I really need to sleep, I'm getting cranky.


haha you are right, that has less to do with what period of sleep you are in and more with being annoyed with being woken up or something.

hah yeah i really need sleep, the last few days ive barely gotten any and im starting to forget whats real and whats in my mind.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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And now for a good question:

Knowing full well the adaptability of the human brain, and realizing the supposed requirement to dream, could a person train theirself, or use medication, to sleep successfully without entering any dream-inducing REM sleep?

Hm?



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