The Mind Dimension

Ok this is a bad read, kinda sounds like a bunch of rambling and im not even sure if any of it makes sense, but its just a bunch of things i was thinking this morning.

I'm sure almost everyone here has experienced deja vu. You just have that feeling of 'wait, i've done this before'. Well I have too on numerous occasions, BUT! it wasn't until the most recent time that I actually remembered where and when this exact moment that I was having deja vu about had happened. It was in my dreams from 2 nights before, I had gone to a place I had never been and I was there with my friends and what not. Then 2 days later the same exact thing happened! The place (a garage) was exactly the same as in my dream, the dialogue that went on, the people, everything.

Anyways what this is leading to is I was thinking. Besides there being the dimensions of space and time, maybe there is one of mind, which is alot different so it is harder to control or know whats going on. So deja vu is basically your mind in that dimension traveling forward in time (for what reason i dont know, hence the hard to control and know whats going on) and living that moment.

Then I was thinking maybe the 'mind dimension' is where you fall into when you die. Maybe that could explain ghosts somehow, theyre traveling through time just going around and sometimes theyre dimensions slips into ours or something, thats why people will see ghosts from the civil war or something, its just their ghosts traveling around checking out the future or something.

I just think that our minds are capable of a lot more than we think.

BLAH I DONT KNOW!

Thats quite a creepy story! did u mention it to your friends? iv had similar things happen to me aswell but iv always kept the deja vu to myself.

There was a thread on deja vu a couple of months ago, apparently there is a scientific explantion: the brain confuses the present with the past which causes you to believe that you have been in exactly the same situation before.

I can't explain it well, but I truly believe that our subconscious is "eternal", not bound by the same rules of time that we are. A universal memory, perhaps? Something that remembers the past and knows the future.

It is something that most cannot access or control. Some people have experiences that enter the conscious mind from time to time. I think you can learn to make better use of your subconscious talents. I also think relgions frown on the idea.

If this is true then the future is predestined.

Originally posted by JoeyC
Thats quite a creepy story! did u mention it to your friends? iv had similar things happen to me aswell but iv always kept the deja vu to myself.

There was a thread on deja vu a couple of months ago, apparently there is a scientific explantion: the brain confuses the present with the past which causes you to believe that you have been in exactly the same situation before.

Yeah i mentioned it, but theres not much to be done about it, just 'oh yeah thats weird'.

i dont know about that 'scientific explanation', i dont see how they could prove it. just sounds like a guess from what they know.

i am definately going to try and make it a point to remember my dreams more just incase something similiar happens again.. i want to start predicting the future

I have often thought that there may be a 'universal memory or mind' for want of a better description.

It would help explain many things - deja vu astral projection, intuition, 6th sense, dreams, spirituality, religion, supernatural............

On the subject of pre-destiny or predicting the future theoretically it should be possible. It is after all the 4th dimension and dimensions can be measured we can already see into the past and we exist in the present so why should we not at some time figure out how to access or see the future.

I believe it was Einstein who first theorised it was possible:-

www.pbs.org...


'Sorry if you're no longer meant to post links, it's been a while'

Sure some cases of deja vu are mistakes, but to attempt to explain it away in that fashion is just insulting to the human race. We are not all that dumb.

Dreams are by far and away the most common source of these feelings. Most people have such lousy Dream retention that only something remarkable gets remembered. If you wish to explore this then get a notebook, put it by your bed, and each morning write down as much as you can about your Dreams. Keep it up and eventually you will not need the notebook and you will remember well.

Let's take a look at this event. I would wonder how everyone came to be in the place you mentioned, how many were thinking about it before hand? I know that if you really dug into each person's movements and thoughts for the 2 days before you would see the threads that would weave together into the event started even before you had the Dream.

It is a remarkable feat of mental power to see even a moment into the future, but it is not some mystical event but rather a bit of super-computing supported by knowledge you are both aware and unaware you possess. Dreams, no matter how unskilled you may be with them, are a powerful tool that can do anything.

I do not see a Dimension of mind, but there do exist channels between, deep down we share information on a constant basis. I think it is this level of communication that supports the verbal. Think of it this way, to speak is to voice words that connect to concepts. But each person has a totally different set of associations for each and every word they know. Very similar to each other if they share the same background, but still different.

Table. Each person who just read that word got an initial image of their own. There are thousands of 'tables' here alone. Now in the gross sense you can say 'so it is close enough', and in general of course I agree. But each word brings more and more differences. At some point the level of differences should mean a total failure of comprehension, and sometimes it does.

So if I say table to you I may instantly connect you to an overwhelming emotion response because you had something really bad happen with a table at some point. Or maybe I instantly put you into a sour mood because you think school table. Ok, many, most, reactions are neutral, but this happens each and every word. How do we communicate? Change just one element in an equation and it is almost certain to be incorrect. Change a word in a song and it will no longer ring true. But we talk in nothing but differences and manage to communicate.

Over the ages, mostly we communicate really, really badly. Good, useful conversation has been the exception for the majority of the History of this Planet.

Other channels of information support the verbal, and I am not ignoring body langauge, past history, shared background, scent, content, training, religion, age, or anything else, justing saying seems like more.

Yngwie as long as you know you have free will, then you know that the future has yet to be written. I certainly know that we have to make the future with our choices. Each step we each take matters, change but one and what follows is different.



A.T
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[many, many typo edits on 6/14/05 by A.T]


[edit on 6/14/05 by Alexander Tau]

Chemicals! Its all chemicals!

I hate to break up the mysterious subconcious party but it is chemicals!

How can you claim that your mind is something special and can *somehow* predict the future whereas a lump of carbon and everything else that makes up your brain cant do the same thing. Ack. Is there any proof? Can it be measured?

If it cant, your bordering the "faith" thing...and thats not cool.

Chemicals?

Chemicals?

Then, how do you expain memory or instinct? Dreaming? How do chemicals explain learning? Are feelings chemical reactions?

My vote goes for the conscious, the unconscious and the subconscious, which is probably global.

Memory? You mean the same thing little pieces of plastic do? Or magnetic Tape?
Instinct is the same thing as it is in any creature, from a human to a bacterium, its just preprogrammed processes to insure survival and procreation.

Dreams..erm...well I dont know, there probably in there with EMOTIONS as well, gah....why do emotions make my job of explaining the world so difficult. The only thing in the entire universe that doesnt have a logical answer, dreams....

Someday, we're going to invent a pill that removes emotions and dreams, and I can just imagine what the world will be like, however that probably conflicts with your "global conciousness" thing.

I would like to remind everyone that my logical processing in my brain is not connected to my emotions and in fact whenever possible straight reasoning should be used, much like a computer does.

And what of a computer mind that thinks and can understand us? Is that part of your higher level of thought? Because it will just be computer boards, since it certaintly doesnt have a machine soul, now does it? HAL will prove many things.

Raideur:

what are these chemicals?
...

Still computer needs humans to apporate them...
...

We human don't just think logically...

By default human are born with Id mentality...then the development of the Super-Ego mentallity due to life experience and belief system...then finally the Ego mentallity act as a balance between the Id and the Super-Ego as end result.

Super-Ego ---> Logic mind
Ego ---> Both logic/illogical mind (balanced!?)
Id ---> illogical mind

It's not that simple to think logical just by ignoring that other part of ourselves...


[edit on 14-6-2005 by mwen]

Memory? You mean the same thing little pieces of plastic do? Or magnetic Tape?

No little piece of tape or anything else can yet record even one second of the total human intake of sensory input. And even if it could, do our technical achievements make humanity somehow less wonderous?

The only thing in the entire universe that doesnt have a logical answer, dreams....

That is quite a statement, considering the Infinity that seems to surround us. Just one mystery... well too bad it is 1/4 or so of our lives.

Someday, we're going to invent a pill that removes emotions and dreams, and I can just imagine what the world will be like, however that probably conflicts with your "global conciousness" thing.

Sure, no Love, no Art, no Dreams, horrible thought.

No one is free from the influence of their emotions, usually those that try to supress them are just as driven by them.

The rational mind likes to deal in finite ideas, simple things really on any sort of Cosmic scale. Many people have come to the conclusion that it takes an approach that is open to all aspects of Reality, most especially teaming the Intellect with the Intuition.

Intuition sees in terms of the whole, knows without needing words, it 'talks' in the language of emotions.


A.T
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The same thing happens to me all the time. If i have a lucid dream, it becomes reality within 3 months. I've seen bus crashes, dead bodies, and just misc. stuff.

The mind dimension makes a little sense. Considering my and my cousin shared the same dream 1 night. The really odd thing is. We were both in the same place. I could see him, he could see me.

It wasnt like we were in each others dreams, it's like the dream was a place, and we both happened to be there at the same time.

I would say the Id is a VERY logical system. It does the most obvious thing to insure survival and procreation. As is the higher thinking Im doing right now. It also does the most rational thing. Emotions do all sorts of things that probably make sense from their point of view, but I cannot see that.

When they all have their "best answer" and it isnt the same as all the others, we get a conflict. Makes sense, yes?

Emotions have nothing to do with being "free" and I would say we'd be more free without them. No one is bound to feel sad or embarassed without their consent. No jealousy forces you to avenge anything. Everyone would see things very clearly. True, you lose your "gut feeling" and also "love", but you would never be confused or frightened again. You would probably even be able to predict far more events than ever possible since you have no bias and are more aware of the actual states of the world.

Memory is memory, regardless of its size, medium, or capacity.
The human brain may process huge amounts of data, but it cannot focus for beans on a single task, unlike some machines.

Dreams, though I dislike them so, are caused by the day's events, and if you were with your friend during an event, its not surprising if you both had a similiar dream. However I highly doubt you could communicate with each other effectively.

Originally posted by Raideur
I would say the Id is a VERY logical system. It does the most obvious thing to insure survival and procreation. As is the higher thinking Im doing right now. It also does the most rational thing. Emotions do all sorts of things that probably make sense from their point of view, but I cannot see that.

For example, would you said that (most or if not all) children are very logical...since the Id is the only state of mind they have before their full development?
...

When a person is in Flight or Fight situation, the Id part of the mind took over, unless the Super-ego part is more influencial then the Id...decision more instinctual and illogical...

Emotions have nothing to do with being "free" and I would say we'd be more free without them. No one is bound to feel sad or embarassed without their consent. No jealousy forces you to avenge anything. Everyone would see things very clearly. True, you lose your "gut feeling" and also "love", but you would never be confused or frightened again. You would probably even be able to predict far more events than ever possible since you have no bias and are more aware of the actual states of the world.

Then we would not be human at all...

Dreams, though I dislike them so, are caused by the day's events, and if you were with your friend during an event, its not surprising if you both had a similiar dream. However I highly doubt you could communicate with each other effectively.

That's sound like more of an assumption than an actuality...Also, what about precognitive based dreams?

Children are wonderful to talk to. They really are, since they dont concern themselves with all the other things that we worry and ponder and automatically do by conditioning.

You ask them a simple question, they either get it completely correct, or make a mistake due to simple lack of information. They dont have bias or inflated opinions or cultural conditioning. They dont even use their emotions to solve the problem.

Fight or Flight has as much to do with emotional fear and anger as anything. But it has a evolutionary purpose and thus makes sense in its own roundabout way.

Then we would not be human at all...

We'd be that much closer to being perfect.

That's sound like more of an assumption than an actuality...Also, what about precognitive based dreams?

No one can reliably predict the future, and if they do to some degree, it was probably influenced by the person thinking about it before it occured.

Dreams have no purpose.

Ah ha! I have finally figured you out Raideur, you do not by chance consider yourself a Vulcan do you?

No insult intended, quite the reverse, I hold the concepts in and behind Star Trek in the highest regards. For a period of time in my youth I appeared to most as following the same sort of logical path, minus the ears of course.

I notice you listed negative emotions, and put Love in quotes.

Only a fully human being, with both logic and emotions can understand events involving other humans. No matter how hard you try your own emotions will influence your every thought, if you do not do a full study on them, and integrate them in properly, your logic will suffer.

Humans are much, much bigger than the simple box of flesh we inhabit. We have demonstrated powers and abilities over the Centuries that are astounding. The Universe has shown itself to be vast so as to stagger the human mind, the real total picture of Reality blows the 'box' to pieces.

Every post I have seen from you brims over with emotion. When I first read a post from you I would have thought Romulan instead, all fire and passion and little logic. Interesting reaction to get don't you think, I am sure it is the opposite of what you intended.


A.T
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hey guys I think we getting off topic here...

Shouldn't we be posting on this link that Raideur started instead:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dont Vulcan loses their sense of logic when it's mating season...

[edit on 15-6-2005 by mwen]

you do not by chance consider yourself a Vulcan do you?

Oh dear, my little secret is out...

Perhaps I dont like showing any weakness in that respect during my anti-human rants.

Humans should not be this complex, and they do not need to be. Emotions serve no evolutionary purpose, and thus are not needed.

I am disturbed by the idea that normal thinknig can be clouded by something, be it booze or love. Everything must make sense.

I originally began only disputing magic, but the human mind card came into play and I had to take a firm stance to defend my very harsh assumtions that it is all bunk.
However, who wouldnt want to see a world of emotionless people being productive, effecient minds. The world at peace, productive, and perhaps not caring, but doing the most obviously correct things.

Would be something to marvel at....Oh what am I doing... Im not dreaming... Im bitching.. now no more magical baloney.

Mwen, your point about being off-topic is valid, so what do you say BlackOctober? Is this where you wanted this topic to go or not?

I am, ahh, anxious, to respond to Raideur but I will return to whatever subject you choose.


A.T
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