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Information on the Illuminati Calendar

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posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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looks like sebatwerk just goes round every illuminati topic saying their non existant...i would say their is more fact into the illuminati than there isnt even though there isn't plain evidence. I think everyones getting a bit tired of your opinion its more interesting when you come up with points rather than going round saying they dont exist in every topic.




posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by fill0000
looks like sebatwerk just goes round every illuminati topic saying their non existant...i would say their is more fact into the illuminati than there isnt even though there isn't plain evidence. I think everyones getting a bit tired of your opinion its more interesting when you come up with points rather than going round saying they dont exist in every topic.


Actually I can give you several good, UNDENIABLE points why the Illuminati don't exist:

1. There has NEVER been ANY kind of evidence put forward to demonstrate, or even HINT, at their existance. EVERYTHING that exists leaves a trace, NOTHING is exempt from this. If an organization as big as the Illuminati truly existed, we would have SOMETHING conclusive to show this by now. Conspiracies are short-lived and must involve as few people as possible. Every person added to the conspiracy lessen's its chances for success, and increase the chances of information and evidence leaking out. This has been demonstrated over and over again. no organinzation has been able to keep a tight seal on its secrets, no matter who's involved.

2. The ONLY things we "know" about the Illuminati is what has been written in books by fiction authors, and told to us by conspiracy theoorists. There is no "mainstream" knowledge of the organization. In other words, it's a conpiracy community MYTH.

3. Large organizations are plagued with beaurocracy, sluggishness and politics. How would it be possible for an organization as large as the Illuminati is said to be to control almost every aspect of our lives so efficiently, when all public organizations that we've ever seen can't even come close to doing so, regardless of how much money or people they have?

So there's three points that tell you EXACTLY why I can safely say that the Illuminati does NOT exist. If you can refute any of those points with LOGICAL, RATIONAL arguments, not the fantastic exercises of imagination we normally see around here, I would love to discuss this with you for the benefit of the forum.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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The shape of authority as you will know is pyramid shaped, meaning what happens at the top goes - new order is brought in at the top, and all below must follow because that’s how our modern society is constructed.

You say it would take a large amount of people to control everything - I would only agree with you here if the shape of authority was more of a square shape and that a new order could only be brought in if there is a balanced society of the illuminati and the people.

People say a lot of junk about the illuminati, and I have to agree with you that a large organization would leak information, that’s why we know so much about other secret establishments and societies, but with the illuminati were not talking about a large organization – were talking about a rather small iron circle of people that have the power to turn our way of life upside down.

I find this quite relevant, so I’ll mention it. On Sky One, (British Digital TV Channel) there was a program on the illuminati and a member of the illuminati agreed to whistle blow about it and reveal information. All seemed well; the presenter agreed that the camera would not be rolling during the interview. Everything appeared set up, when the member of the illuminati backed out and said it was too risky – well he himself didn’t say it, it was through another man of course that knew the member personally.

Even if there were plain evidence – if their as sophisticated as they are made out to be then a small breech can easily be cleaned up.




[edit on 21-6-2005 by fill0000]



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by fill0000
The shape of authority as you will know is pyramid shaped, meaning what happens at the top goes - new order is brought in at the top, and all below must follow because that’s how our modern society is constructed.

You say it would take a large amount of people to control everything - I would only agree with you here if the shape of authority was more of a square shape and that a new order could only be brought in if there is a balanced society of the illuminati and the people.


The shape of authority as a pyramid assumes a CHAIN OF COMMAND. Orders are sent down from the top and delegated to suboordinates. This, my friend, is what causes beaurocracy! Most organizations function this way, and most have a VERY hard time getting things done in an efficient, timely manner! And none are able to achieve complete secrecy.



People say a lot of junk about the illuminati, and I have to agree with you that a large organization would leak information, that’s why we know so much about other secret establishments and societies, but with the illuminati were not talking about a large organization – were talking about a rather small iron circle of people that have the power to turn our way of life upside down.


An organization that controls the media, government, economy and society involves A LOT of people. I don't care what you say, there's no way that a small group of people can have a stronghold on all this without others knowing about it. Sorry, it just doesnt work this way. Like I said before, let's discuss using LOGIC and REASON, not fantasy.



Even if there were plain evidence – if their as sophisticated as they are made out to be then a small breech can easily be cleaned up.



Not once it reaches the public domain, especially in this day and age.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by fill0000

when the member of the illuminati backed out and said it was too risky – well he himself didn’t say it, it was through another man of course that knew the member personally.



Sebatwerk I was dissapointed that you didn't post about this
What proof did this guy have that he was from the Illuminati...Did he show some secret ring or better yet a secret masonic handshake
I just think that that example was very poor fill0000 He could have backed out for any number of reasons....most likely because he was a fake. Also if the Illuminati control everything then they would have control over our entertainment correct? If so why couldn't they have used all their connections to find which one of their members was going to talk? Doesn't make much sense. I know I am going to sound really lame but is there any way that you can provide some sort of source or any information on this incident?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Thanks for the link Axeman that’s exactly the type of things I’m looking for !

And great tip southern_cross3, I’m so used to finding everything I need online that I often forget the traditional way of gathering information. However at this time I’m quite remote for any decent quality English libraries.

Sebatwerk I’m intrigued by this comment…

1. There has NEVER been ANY kind of evidence put forward to demonstrate, or even HINT, at their existence.


Are you saying that Adam Weishaupt’s Bavarian Illuminati is also a myth? That it never in fact existed historically? And if I did find information on the Illuminati Calendar, it too would be equally fictional?

If you explained this before please give me a link to where you've explain this.

I’m sorry for going off topic, but this would lead my research in a totally different direction. Researching a fictional calendar is not very appealing to me.

The reason why I didn’t want to settle for the Robert Anton Wilson version of the Illuminati calendar was that it was fictional.
If even the Adam Weishaupt version of the calendar is a myth then I think it should be noted in this thread.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
If even the Adam Weishaupt version of the calendar is a myth then I think it should be noted in this thread.


I would wager that Weishaupt's Illuminati (Yes Virginia, there was a Bavarian Illuminati...
) did have their own calendar, but I'm not sure which they would use. I'd be willing to bet, however, that it closely resembles the Masonic calendar, that is if it's not exactly the same. There were many paralells between the two organizations. Best I can figure, Weishaupt borrowed heavily from the Masons.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Sebatwerk I’m intrigued by this comment…

1. There has NEVER been ANY kind of evidence put forward to demonstrate, or even HINT, at their existence.


Are you saying that Adam Weishaupt’s Bavarian Illuminati is also a myth? That it never in fact existed historically? And if I did find information on the Illuminati Calendar, it too would be equally fictional?

If you explained this before please give me a link to where you've explain this.


No no no, don't get confused. The BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI, and the "Illuminati" that conpiracy theorists talk about are 2 VERY different things. The Bavarian Illuminati was a short-lived political not-so-secret society that was trying to bring about political change in Europe, which developed from the Alumbrados of Spain. They made several enemies in the state, and were eventually broken apart due to internal bickering between senior members.

While SOME theorists try to make a link between the Bavarian Illuminati and the "Illuminati that controls the NWO, blah blah blah", by saying that the Bavarian Illuminati didn't really die out, but rather went underground and grew more powerful, etc etc.... it's all fantasy coming straight out of their imagination.

There has NEVER been a shred of proof to show that the Bavarian Illuminati existed after 1785. Similarly, there has never been a shred of evidence brought about to show that there is ANY kind of organization, called Illuminati or otherwise, that is single-handedly controlling world affairs from the shadows.

It's silly and it's bull#. Pure fantasy. I still can't get aroound the fact that grown men, intelligent men, believe this single piece of pure fantasy. :bnghd:



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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it takes a lot more stretching to truth to completely deny the existence of the Illuminati than it does to admit that they probably exist(ed).

you have one item on your agenda which is "ILLUMINATI DOESN'T EXIST" and you categorically deny even the remotest evidence pointing to their existence. this is in direct contradiction to ATS's motto, "Deny Ignorance." Rather, you're PROMOTING ignorance.

i've been shut down various times by different individuals in this forum whenever i try to say something about masonic conspiracies, and it's always masons that shut me down. am i the only one seeing this? clearly the masons are monitoring this forum to spread their disinformation campaigns, and it is in our best interests not to trust anything they say.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
it takes a lot more stretching to truth to completely deny the existence of the Illuminati than it does to admit that they probably exist(ed).

you have one item on your agenda which is "ILLUMINATI DOESN'T EXIST" and you categorically deny even the remotest evidence pointing to their existence. this is in direct contradiction to ATS's motto, "Deny Ignorance." Rather, you're PROMOTING ignorance.

i've been shut down various times by different individuals in this forum whenever i try to say something about masonic conspiracies, and it's always masons that shut me down. am i the only one seeing this? clearly the masons are monitoring this forum to spread their disinformation campaigns, and it is in our best interests not to trust anything they say.


Oh shut UP you troll. Nobody is monitoring this forum for anything, but we are clearly able to tell people that there is no such thing as a masonic conspiracy because WE ARE MASONS. We have provided TONS of accurate information for people, BOOKS worth of information about Freemasonry... we're here to teach people about Freemasonry.

This is why we shut people who lie and slander Freemasonry down so quickly. People believe the things they read, and we want people to know the TRUTH abbout Freemasonry. THAT is my agenda.

As far as the Illuminati is concerned, can you show me ANY evidence of their existence? I am not here to try to get people to believe otherwise, I am here to help people see that all these things they believe are a bunch of crap! And you know this! I am here to get people to start thinking LOGICALLY. You cannot honestly tell me that you have undeniable proof that the Illuminati exists!

And, by the way, Freemasonry is a FRATERNITY. It has NOTHING to do with conspiracy theory. You saying so in here only makes you seem like a fool. You're the only one who sees this because you are the only one here ignorant enough to actually believe this crap.


[edit on 22-6-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic12
All I could come up with:

www.kelsung.com...
i was just wondering what u believe the illuminuti are freemasons, aleins, other? all the finfo u have on them would help thanks- fellow truth seeker



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic12
All I could come up with:

www.kelsung.com...


How on Earth can you believe whats written on this site?



The leap-day is called Heiligefliegendekindersheissetag and is given no date.


Hmmm sounds like something my baby cousin spews out.....
I mean c'mon guys think for a second.....

say it with me now......

Heiligefliegendekindersheissetag

It just makes me laugh when I hear that word, I honestly am disapointed with the fact that people would buy into this sorta stuff


I dare you to say Heiligefliegendekindersheissetag 10x fast



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
i've been shut down various times by different individuals in this forum whenever i try to say something about masonic conspiracies, and it's always masons that shut me down. am i the only one seeing this? clearly the masons are monitoring this forum to spread their disinformation campaigns, and it is in our best interests not to trust anything they say.


Perhaps if you could back up your statements with facts and compelling arguments, it wouldn't be so easy to "shut you down". Most of the conspiracy theories that come across this board are laughable at best, and to anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together it looks like what it is. Rubbish. Poppycock, even (I love that word!
).



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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The_Final – the link that Majestic 12 provided refers to the Robert Anton Wilson version of the Illuminati calendar (in his book Illuminatus!). The Heiligefliegendekindersheissetag leap year and the rest of the calendar was written by a fiction writer (RAW) and it is purely fictional. It has nothing to do with the version used by the Bavarian Illuminati. Unless RAW based it on the original Bavarian Illuminati calendar, but I highly doubt this.

Like Axeman mentions previously the Bavarian Illuminati Calendar is probably very similar to one used my masons and other similar societies.

Thanks for the clarifications sebatwerk.



[edit on 23-6-2005 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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The existence of the Illuminati is hardly a laughable conspiracy. While it is a conspiracy theory, it is also one of the more established ones and it's rare to hear someone deny the existence of the group entirely.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
The existence of the Illuminati is hardly a laughable conspiracy. While it is a conspiracy theory, it is also one of the more established ones and it's rare to hear someone deny the existence of the group entirely.


No it's not. Anyone with a logical way of analyzing these conspiracy theories knows that if there is no evidence of, not even ANYTHING to hint at, the existence of the Illuminati, then there is no way we can truly believe that it exists. All of the information about the group has been assumed and made up by theorists, nothing NOTHING has ever come from such a group. How can you claim to deny ignorance, all the while believing in this fairy tale??? Sorry man, but the theory of the Illuminati doesn't stand up to rational scrutiny.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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Speaking of "denying ignorance," I'm not going to continue this pointless debate with you. Have the last word if you like.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
The existence of the Illuminati is hardly a laughable conspiracy. While it is a conspiracy theory, it is also one of the more established ones and it's rare to hear someone deny the existence of the group entirely.


I have nbever said that there is no chance that the Illuminati exists. I merely stated taht most of the theories I hear about them are completely based on... well... nothing.

Ooooh, people with lots of money trying to run things and make more money and power for themselves... Nothing new about that. Now if you want to talk about the actual group, THE Illuminati, well then I say this: Show me ONE SHRED of verifiable evidence that alludes to the existence of *THAT GROUP* (i.e. NOT the rich guys that we all know about), and we'll talk. Until then, poppycock.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by southern_cross3
Speaking of "denying ignorance," I'm not going to continue this pointless debate with you. Have the last word if you like.


What's pointless is believing so strongly in something for which you have never seen the least amount of evidence for. Leave that for religion, don't bring it into a forum who's slogan is "Deny Ignorance".



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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sebatwerk, I mean not to sound angry but what exactly attracted you to this very thread. Information on the Illuminati Calendar, is there something you are yet to share about the Illuminati Calendar or are you just looking for conflict ?

Im being honest/curious.

CrAd



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