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Can There B A Caseless Sniper Rifle?

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posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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This thread can b moved if needed.

Alright, I don't know much about caseless ammo, so can, if not already, b a caseless sniper rifle?

I know of the G11, okay bad example since it failed, but u get my point, , so I'm just curious: could there b, and if so, is there 1? TY.




posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by SEAL Trident
This thread can b moved if needed.

Alright, I don't know much about caseless ammo, so can, if not already, b a caseless sniper rifle?

I know of the G11, okay bad example since it failed, but u get my point, , so I'm just curious: could there b, and if so, is there 1? TY.

The G11 didnt fail, it was simply a test bed.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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There was also a pistol designed to use the G11 ammo but I have never heard of a sniper rifle.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 08:49 PM
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Caseless flechette style ammunition for sniper rifles would likely be very effective. The rounds are too light as they are now, but with some modification I'm sure they could acheive the sort of trajectory a sniper requires.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 09:15 PM
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The only reason I can fathom, is the lack of support for the bullet during the initial ignition. The case is very important during this time, as it keeps the bullet centered and supported in the short jump in the throat area of the barrel, before it actually engages the rifling.

Although a caseless cartridge would/could still be accurate, the current engines we use now needs no such radical change in its ammunition.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 10:31 PM
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Ahh, okay, thank ya'll.

I'm discipointed, but if that's true...........



lol, jk

thank ya'll, really.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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If you ever watch serious reloaders/target/varmit shooters ..they are very particular about grooming their ammo. Every bullet weighed and sorted by weight. Cases carefully prepared. Case necks turned to insure the bullet is concentric with the center of the bore of the rifle. They even do dial indicator run outs on their ammunition to insure concentricity. Primers carefully installed. Powder carefully measured...bullets properly seated to the depth for a particular rifle. Im telling you ...these guys get radical about thier craft. When all these factors are accounted for..its still up to the shooter..but every factor right up to shooting they try to account for..including logs of their reloads. Some guys wont even load them in the magazines...they prefer to load them one at a time ..carefully.
You know something is radically different about some of these guys when you see a bubble level on a scope or a rifle.
Army is pretty much correct in his post.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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U know, this explains a lot.

4 guns that do use caseless rds, I can c how this is all true.

TY again

[edit on 11-6-2005 by SEAL Trident]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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My question is why would you want a caseless sniper rifle, whats the benifit?



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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Why ..because if it were ever worked out to pass military specifications it would put the brass and primer buisness out of buisness. Brass and primers are a one shot disposable deal. As I understand it Caseless ammo is electrically fired. No traditional primer. No brass. In the long run it means cost savings on these items.
Side benifit of this invention. Special teams often police up their brass so as not to leave any traces they have been there. With caseless ammo ther is no brass to police up.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:56 AM
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I understand that, but we're talking about a sniper rifle here. If in a situation where one shot is fired and you sneek off, then picking up one brass case isn't a problem. If sniping as part of a unit, such as in Iraq then who cares about dropping brass. What i was thinking was a weapon born for assasination etc. Which is why i ask the question to the thread starter.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Mostly for weight, partially for cost and ease of manufacture.

The G11 showed that high cyclic rates are also a benefit, as the extraction and ejection cycles, and the needed linear action bolt, are eliminated.

I was just thinking...in a Gatling configuration, the process of chambering, firing, extracting, and ejection occur during a full rotation of the barrel cluster. By eliminating the need for extraction and ejection, you could, conceivably, feed two or more belts of ammo into the barrel cluster at the same time. Using multiple firing points, the rate of fire would be staggering!



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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your right again..good point . I was thinking more along the lines of cost savings in ammo manufacturing. This would however remove the necessity for extractors and the machinework necessary to accomodate extractors..meaning savings in the manufacturing of the weapons themselves. Good call Army..thanks.

Orangetom



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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As for Assasins, Bolt-Action style rifles already give them the option to fire a round without having to worry about the brass ejecting and having to pick it up, the empty round isn't ejected until the bolt is recharged.

I never truely understood the caseless weapon concepts, and with that Metalstorm coming, you will have a caseless weapon system right there.

Flechette is not a great round for a firearm since it only penetrates armor, it doesn't necesarilly take someone down, the same argument I recently used on the P90 thread as well, penetration is one thing, stopping power is another.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Flechette is not a great round for a firearm since it only penetrates armor, it doesn't necesarilly take someone down, the same argument I recently used on the P90 thread as well, penetration is one thing, stopping power is another.


Sabots are also an interesting option, and, surprisingly, both they and flechettes are legal in the U.S. due to a loophole. I am thinking about investing is several thousand .30 caliber sabots.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 09:08 PM
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Flechette's would have a very difficult time penetrating armor, as they are much too lightweight...basically a small nail with dart-like fins to keep point forward.

Sabot's in rifle ammunition have proven to be not terribly accurate. Remington has had limited success in their "Accelerator" line of sabot hunting ammunition (.224 caliber in a .308 caliber sabot). Although terminal ballistics can be rather spectacular in varmints, penetration is limited due, again, to the very light hollowpoint bullet.

BTW, the flechette was designed to be a mass/swarm of projectiles from artillery guns, rather than a single projo. In this, they perform perfectly.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Ooops, I should have added:

I America, flechettes by themsleves are legal to own, but illegal to load into ammunition.

Sabot's, on the other hand, have no restrictions. They are widely used in modern muzzleloading arms to propel hunting type handgun bullets from large caliber rifles (.45-.50-.54 caliber and up) to speeds un-obtainable in handguns. The modern bullet construction is also superior to the old round soft lead ball that would normally be used.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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For accuracy in .223 caliber..I load the Hornady 52 grain V max bullets. Specific type powder at a specific charge. Careful case preperation and specific bullet seating depth. Rifle is a Savage 12 FV

For .30 Caliber I load the Serria 168 or 190 Grain boat tail match hollowpoint. Again specifically prepared cases, specific powder and charge. Specific bullet seating depth. Rifle is a heavy barreled Springfield 1903.

I have never been intrested in shooting the accelerators mentioned but they look as if they are very fast movers.

Thanks,
Orangetom




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