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posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic12
Those are the kind of people you see on those 3 in the morning infomercials.


Nah, Jim Cramer is a big Wall Street guy. I always get his spam emails asking me to subscribe to his portfolio tracker. Useless if you ask me. The guys I mentioned are both big stock option traders, which is what I focus on.




posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by thematrix
I was wondering something.

sebatwerk, Majestic12 and The Axeman, do you guys have bots scanning the forums for any and every thread about Masons so you can jump on them?


In a word... No.


Are you 3 the same person or in contact with eachother? Or are you 3 the assigned persons to keep track of these threads?? Are you somehow prohibited to post in other threads on ATS?


No, no, and no. Though I do talk to Seb sometimes outside of ATS. Point?


You all post in all and no other then mason related threads.
You all act generaly the same way towards any type of critisisme about masonry.


To quote Ed McMahon: "Yes sir! You are correct, sir!"

However, I would interject that there is a big difference between criticism and difference of opinion and outright lying, without any regard for fact or scholarly research. I merely try to point people in the right direction. The ones that choose to ignore facts and post lies, well, sometimes I have a little fun with them.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.


Have either of you ever felt like actualy participating in ATS instead of just being the Masonic watchdogs to jump on and in alot of cases trash any and all anti-masonic threads?


My time on ATS is limited. Therefore, I post in the forum I am most interested in; this one. Is this a problem for you?


Guys like Masked Avatar, Mirtfull Me and several other Masons and Pro Masonry guys on these boards actualy participate in the global spectrum of ATS and are greatly appreciated. They are able to agree to disagree with other people and have allowed everyone to get to know them and have shared their views about topics that aren't masonry related. With this, they have earned the respect and have become wanted discussion participants for even the people that in general are totaly against masons and masonry. They are an individual with his own views and feelings first and then a Mason.


Good for them. The two you mentioned by name have both my admiration and my respect. Very much so, in fact. Just because I don't get into the other discussions here, does that make my opinion worth less? I don't think so. It means I don't have time to keep up with anything else, and Freemasonry is what interests me on this forum. Again, I don't see the problem here.


This is really just an observation I make, but I would like to suggest both of you something.

Wouldn't it be better to follow your fellow masons examples and becoming more active in the global spectrum of ATS, letting others get to know you and see that you guys are also just ordinary individuals with their own views on everything going from cooking, politics and lil green men to world hunger and not just the 3 avatars that always and only pop up when something bad is said about masonry?


If I had the time or inclination to, I certainly would contribute to other forums. But again, this is where my interest here is, and this is where I post. I still yet fail to see the problem.

I personally (while admittedly not always succeeding) try to be fair and keep a level head in this forum. Itry to show all posters here respect.

Are you saying I am less worthy of respect because I choose to focus my energies on one particular section of the forum? I'd like to think that I make some kind of contribution to this section, other than being a "watchdog," which I am not. I am just a man, who, after a year of reading and posting here, sees the same falsities and lies being posted by the same types of people day in, day out.

Tell you what, guy: Limit your ATS time to an hour or less per day, and see how many forums you can keep up with and be an active contributor in.

[edit on 6/11/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:50 AM
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Everyone is equaly worth of respect, but you only gain it after earning it, on a forum, earning respect from other users is done 1 way and 1 way only, active participation in the global scale of said forum.

As I said earlyer, I'm not critisizing, I'm just trying to help you understand why its sometimes(ok, always) hard and nearly imposible to get any point across for you. People see you as the Masonic watchdogs because you only post in those specific threads, the bunch of you pop up like an acapela group and by now we all know the general direction nearly all of them go.

I think its important that we all understand the following things.

Its imposible to know the full scale of things in masonry without being a mason.
Its imposible to inform people about the full scale of masonry without breaking your oaths.
Its imposible to teach the full scale of masonry, what would require the subject to become a mason, when said person thinks masonry is the den of evil.

As for spending less then an hour a day on ATS, cummulativly, I do.
Maybe I have an advantage by being able to read and type fast.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by thematrix
Wouldn't it be better to follow your fellow masons examples and becoming more active in the global spectrum of ATS, letting others get to know you and see that you guys are also just ordinary individuals with their own views on everything going from cooking, politics and lil green men to world hunger and not just the 3 avatars that always and only pop up when something bad is said about masonry?


matrix,

Not that I think it's any of your damned business where and what I post but since you singled me out in a later post in this thread.....

Your "global spectrum" suggestion sounds fine if that's the sort of thing you're interested in. Share recipes and talk about aliens or sewing or racecars if you like. The Secret Societies section is the ONLY one I'm interested in, thus the ONLY one I post in. There is no ATS rule that says one must do otherwise.

If you'll go back in time on the thread, you'll see that I post in other discussions besides Masonry, but it seems that Masonry is of great interest to a number of posters here or there wouldn't be so much discussion about it. If you aren't interested in it...you really don't even have to READ any of it...there's plenty of other stuff out there for you to read and post.

In fine, I don't recall ever minding YOUR business...why don't you try not to mind MINE? hmm?

Regards



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by thematrix
Everyone is equaly worth of respect, but you only gain it after earning it, on a forum, earning respect from other users is done 1 way and 1 way only, active participation in the global scale of said forum.


Bottom line: this is where my interest is, so this is where I post. I don't ask anyone to like it, nor do I care if some people don't. I don't think it would be a stretch for me to say that I have the respect of the people that frequent this forum, as I am an active contributor here. I have no reason to believe otherwise.


As I said earlyer, I'm not critisizing, I'm just trying to help you understand why its sometimes(ok, always) hard and nearly imposible to get any point across for you.


When dealing with closed minded individuals, sometimes it's hard to get my point across. I'm fairly articulate and I don't leave alot to interperetation as far as the point I'm trying to make. If you get it, good. If you don't, well that's fine too. I don't think the concepts I present here are that hard to understand for most people.


People see you as the Masonic watchdogs because you only post in those specific threads, the bunch of you pop up like an acapela group and by now we all know the general direction nearly all of them go.


There is something to be said for consistency, yes? They all go the same direction because we always get the same kind of drivel repeated from the same websites over, and over, and over again. Someone has to be around to set the record straight. That's what we do. If you don't like it that's fine, but frankly, to tell me that I need to be more involved in other topics to speak with authority on this one is a bit absurd.


I think its important that we all understand the following things.

Its imposible to know the full scale of things in masonry without being a mason.
Its imposible to inform people about the full scale of masonry without breaking your oaths.
Its imposible to teach the full scale of masonry, what would require the subject to become a mason, when said person thinks masonry is the den of evil.


Masonry is something a man must discover on his own. I am just here to point seekers in the right direction, and help to put down the nasty rumors that have been circculated around the net, which I know to be false. That is the only reason I come here, so why should I post in other areas, if I have no interest to?


As for spending less then an hour a day on ATS, cummulativly, I do.
Maybe I have an advantage by being able to read and type fast.


I can read and type fine, thanks. I choose to spend my time in this forum. If that makes me a watchdog, so be it.

The people I am concerned about reaching will not see it that way, I'm sure. But thanks for the tip anyway.


[edit on 6/11/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Everyone is equaly worth of respect, but you only gain it after earning it, on a forum, earning respect from other users is done 1 way and 1 way only, active participation in the global scale of said forum.

As I said earlyer, I'm not critisizing, I'm just trying to help you understand why its sometimes(ok, always) hard and nearly imposible to get any point across for you. People see you as the Masonic watchdogs because you only post in those specific threads, the bunch of you pop up like an acapela group and by now we all know the general direction nearly all of them go.



Who in the hell died and made you king of ATS?

I would probably take this a little more seriously if this were comming from a modertor, or an Admin. But comming from you it's just useless babble.

I asked this question before, and I'll ask it again. What is it to you where I post? Does it really get on your nerves that badly to see me post in those threads? Really you just need to mind your own damn business. Not my problem I don't feel like wasting my time in those other forums.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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the pro-mason members, particulary sebatwork and senrak, are always so aggressive and self-righteous. to be honest, i couldn't care less about masons. they have no secret agenda. it would be nice to see people talk about something more worthwhile...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by johnnyutah
the pro-mason members, particulary sebatwork and senrak, are always so aggressive and self-righteous. to be honest, i couldn't care less about masons. they have no secret agenda. it would be nice to see people talk about something more worthwhile...


"agressive" "self-righteous" Hmmm....that means a LOT coming from you Johnny...I see you've been a member here MUCH less than a month, so your participation and ultimately your ability to discuss them intelligently is extremely lacking.

So tell me, would YOU like it if YOU were LIED about, repeatedly in a public forum? Would YOU like it if your character were constantly attacked because you belonged to an organization that the attacker did NOT understand?

I seriously doubt it.

And you're right. It WOULD "be nice to see people talk about something more worthwhile" so why don't you put your money where your mouth is and START such a conversation? Got anything "worthwhile" to talk about?

Sorry that's so "agressive" I'm very plain-spoken, whether you like that or not.

Regards,

[edit on 11-6-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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I actually enjoy reading sebatwerk, Majestic12, and Axeman's posts. I need to get the entire 360 degrees on every subject and without these guys it wouldn't be as easy. I'm researching the subject right now and I have to say these guys are only defending what Freemasonary stands for, such a shame they even have to defend themselves.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Everyone is free to post what they will!

I have not been on ATS that long, has this type of bickering always gone on, in dealing with Masonry?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by thematrix
I think its important that we all understand the following things.
...
Its imposible to inform people about the full scale of masonry without breaking your oaths.


This is absolutely FALSE... unless you think that our handshakes and passwords, the ONLY thing we have ever taken an oath to keep secret, constitutes "the full scale of masonry"...?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Linux
these guys are only defending what Freemasonary stands for, such a shame they even have to defend themselves.


Thank you Linux! Guys like you are why I am here. So that you don't only have one side of the story, so to speak, to learn from.

Isn't it sad that once these guys realize that attacking Freemasonry will not work, they then turn and attack the individual instead?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Linux
I actually enjoy reading sebatwerk, Majestic12, and Axeman's posts. I need to get the entire 360 degrees on every subject and without these guys it wouldn't be as easy. I'm researching the subject right now and I have to say these guys are only defending what Freemasonary stands for, such a shame they even have to defend themselves.


Thanks Linux, you are a true friend.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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t you don't only have one side of the story, so to speak, to learn from.


Isn't it sad that once these guys realize that attacking Freemasonry will not work, they then turn and attack the individual instead?


It truly is sad. Some folks need to get out from behind their keyboards occasionally and quit believing "ALL" the comic book truths they run across out there. Just because a source doesn't fit your paradigm doesn't mean it's invalid.

Hooyah to the defenders of the faith.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
Everyone is free to post what they will!

I have not been on ATS that long, has this type of bickering always gone on, in dealing with Masonry?


Yes, sadly it has. Sometimes worse than others, but the type of people that usually come here proclaiming that they have the "truth" about Freemasonry that they got from freemasonrywatch or Ephisians 5:11 or Cuttingedge or other such sites are usually pretty tenacious, and it can and does get very annoying. Unfortunately sometimes it does degenerate into unproductive bickering, but I take the good with the bad here. I do my best to keep from doing it but we're all guilty of it at one time or another.

Sometimes it makes for good entertainment though.



I actually enjoy reading sebatwerk, Majestic12, and Axeman's posts. I need to get the entire 360 degrees on every subject and without these guys it wouldn't be as easy.


Thanks Linux. It's nice to know that there are folks getting something from my posts. Like Seb said, it's people like you that make my time here worthwhile.


[edit on 6/11/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
All due respect Nygdan, but the latter of those two was not a counter to mine

Counter/Evil-Opposite, I'm not trying to be too technical on it.

sebatowork
He's very correct about the situation and the reason for it.

Probably, I'm not too concerned with the motivation behind those two threads at this point. But basically one is saying 'why do people make stuff up about the masons' and another is 'why do masons gang up on people'. While its true that anything concnerning masonry is appropriate for the forums, those kinds of things can skirt the edges of being 'discussions about the site' sorts of things rather than discussions about the issues. Afterall, we're not here to talk about each other, but rather about the various aspects of the "Secret Societies" that are out there. So I am trying to encourage people to do more of that.


Sorry dude, but I'm just really peeved at the whole situation.

I get the impression that a lot of people are.

CO_Cowboy
If there’s no heated discussions, then why come here?!?

Precisely, the passionate discussions are the good discussions. BUT, this isn't just a masonry forum, and both sides have been treading the line of being 'abusive'.


thematrix
sebatwerk, Majestic12 and The Axeman, do you guys have bots scanning the forums for any and every thread about Masons so you can jump on them?

Doode, this is exactly what I am talking about. What do you care even if they did? Keep that line of inquiry in this thread.


 

this should've all served as an excellent example of what we are gunning for now. We want full discussion of the topics here, and we want rational consideration, even when the 'other sides' statements are irrational (whether pro or anti mason).




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