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Best carrier launched fighter : Su-33, F/A-18, Rafale-M, F-35C, Mig-29K, Harrier FA2 ?

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posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 12:52 PM
What's your choice of the best carrier launched fighter ?

A few choices that come to mind are :

Su-33 Naval Flanker
F/A-18 Super Hornet
F-35 C
Sea Harrier FA2

My favourite is the Su-33 (upgraded)

The extremely expensive F/A-18 Super Hornet might give the Rafale a run for its money.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 12:57 PM
The F/A-35 will give all of the above a run for their money. Of course, thats assuming the project goes well (not that it won't, but you know what I mean).

For the best carrier launched plane currently in service, I'll go with this list:

1. Su-33 Naval Flanker
2. Rafale M
3. MiG-29K
4. F/A-18 E/F
5. Sea Harrier.

Not in any order of being the best, but just what I like.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:06 PM
The latest Mig-29K with its new features and new 5th gen radar and BVR capability is a very potent force as well

external image

Looks fabulous, dose'nt it.

The F-35 C might be on the brink of cancellation after the US navy has proposed the bolck 3 super hornet

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:12 PM
yah i talked to the test pilot that put the F-18E/F through its spin tests last year(by the way he is a Can fighter pilot that was brought in to do it). you want mauverable, then u want that. the things fully loaded still twirls around like its nothing big. when he was putting the thing through its paces he said other than one mistake from a programe mixing up two files for the inverted flight the thing handle close to the A-10's manuverablity at low speeds. close not the same though he said. he has flown like 25 diff fighters and is a certified test pilot that went through the ameraican trianing program.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:15 PM
Fighter? Tough one, but Id say the Mig. Multirole craft? F18 hands down.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:23 PM
Hey Stealth Spy, how does the MiG-29K fare when it comes down to air to ground capabilities? Typically carriers are made for force projection, and for force projection you need lots of air to ground capability. Those MiG-29Ks are modified to be able to arm R-77s, right? And what 5th gen radar is it using? BARS or the Zhuk radar? I suppose it would probably be the Zhuk, but that would be 4.5th gen. Then again, they might have a new radar system for the MiG-29K instead of using those on flankers.

[off topic]Btw, Trumpeter just released its 1/72 J-10. Looks a bit more like a MiG-21, a bit too sleek IMHO. Then again, there was very little info available on this aircraft.

Another modeller's build:

[/off topic]

[edit on 10/6/05 by W4rl0rD]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:39 PM

The forward facing Phazotron NO11M Bars is a powerful integrated radar sighting system. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar (X and L Band, NATO D and I). Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sideobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4 deg with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 100kg.

The N011M radar has been under flight testing since 1993, fitted to Su-27M (Su-35) prototype '712'. It employs the same level of technology as the now abandoned N014 radar which was to have equipped Mikoyan's MFI "fifth-generation" fighter and was initiated by Tamerlan Bekirbayev.

Note that the N011M is different from the N011: the N011 is mechanical scanning while the former is features a phased array antenna and is much more capable. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP claims.

The N011M can function both in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneusly while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. The aircraft has an opto-electronic surveillance and targeting system which consists of a IR direction finder, laser rangefinder and helmet mounted sight system. The HMS allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90º field of view, lock on to a target and launch the much-feared R-73E missile.

In preliminary long range aiming, the targets (co-ordinates of which enter the navigation system) are locked on automatically, and the onboard locator is disengaged. The aircraft flies radio silent to the targets, and at a range close to the maximum one required for launching the weapons, the threat updating aids are engaged and the weapon is fired. In doing so, the attack time is minimal and the low-observable target approach increases the success of a mission greatly.

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. The forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of acquiring Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. In comparison, the advanced Kopyo radar found in the latest MiG-21UPG can detect small drone targets at a range of 50 km. Another radar meant for the Flanker family, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. N011M can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance. Additionally it can function as a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km. The MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the Mapping Mode).

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km.

New gimbals for the antenna mount to increase the field of view to about 90-100 degrees to both sides. New software will enable a Doppler-sharpening mode and the capability to engage up to eight air targets simultaneously.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:44 PM
Ok then. BARS would be a really good option for a radar system on the MiG-29K. Then again, since it is a naval version, have any ASMs been cleared? Of course not like BrahMos or Sunburn, they would probably be too big.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:45 PM
Due to an integrated weapon selection panel, the MiG-29K can use a wide range of weapons, which includes no less than eight types of air-to-air missiles and 25 air-to-surface weapons. The weapon selection system enables the pilot to fire more than one type of weapon per attack. The aircraft is armed with an internal 30mm GSh-301 gun, with 150 rounds. In the air superiority role, the MiG-29K can be armed with the close-combat R-60MK and the R-73RDM2, the medium-range R-27RE1/TE1 and the beyond-visual-range R-77RVV-AE air-to-air missile.

In the air-to-surface role, the AS-20 (air-launched 3M-24E) anti-ship missile can be carried.

Work is also underway to incorporate the PJ-10 BrahMos anti-ship missile into it (just like the Sukhoi)

Self Defence: The electronic warfare (EW) suite will likely consist of the Sirena-3 Radar Warning Receivers, two ECM transponders in the wing strake and chaff/flare dispensers built into the upper surfaces of the main wing. Each dispenser contains flares or chaff cartridges.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:54 PM
India is also developing a naval variant of its LCA Tejas for its 4th aircraft carrier ADS:

external image

The regular multirole Tejas :

A naval concept of the Eurofighter also exists :

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:55 PM
Hmmm... the MiG-29K seems to be more capable than I thought... Just a few questions.

If BVR capabilities only counts radar systems and missles, then:

MiG-29K = BARS + R-77 + R-73

Su-30MKI = BARS + R-77 + -73

Then, wouldn't

MiG-29K = Su-30MKI?

That doesn't make sense. Why would the IAF buy MKIs when it would buy MiG-29Ks for the same capabilites at a fraction of the cost?

And they are going to fit BrahMoses on to MiG-29s? Given that picture below,the BrahMos barely fits onto the Su-30. A MiG-29 is roughly 2/3s the size of a Su-30 (I know this from modelling), so wouldn't this have a big effect on the aerodynamics of the aircraft? And, wouldn't it be very heavy?

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:56 PM
MIG is seriously losing market right now, it was in and out of bankruptsy for such a long time. Little sales in the last few years. No competition in 5th generation aircraft.

I heard that Sukhoi and MIG merged, is it true?

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 01:58 PM
On the pictures of that naval LCA, what A2A missles are those? I can see fuel tanks, rocket pods and a R-73, but what is that missle 2nd from the left? I'm still waiting for official word on what BVR missle is going to be fitted to the LCA since the LCA's A2A capabilities depend a lot on its BVR missles.

There have also been rumors about a naval J-10, but its all just rumors.

[edit on 10/6/05 by W4rl0rD]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:03 PM

Originally posted by COWlan
MIG is seriously losing market right now, it was in and out of bankruptsy for such a long time. Little sales in the last few years. No competition in 5th generation aircraft.

I heard that Sukhoi and MIG merged, is it true?

Until recently those MiG-29s, 23s/27s and newer 21s were still selling relatively well. Both Russian projects still didn't incorporate stealth (or at least stealth which has been proven, so plasma doesn't count), so they would still be stuck at 4.5th gen. PAK-FA is still only on the drawing boards. MiG-31s are too inflexible, good BVR capabilites, but only for A2A, has NO A2G capabilities at all.

Sukhoi and MiG merged? Well... I don't know, but it would make sense for them to merge since they are both Russian and both make planes which sell quite well in the fighter market. I'm ok with it just as long as they don't name themselves MiGhoi

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:15 PM
F14D Tomcat is still the best naval fighter. The only drawback it has is a poor rate of roll however when it starts turning instead of rolling it will get you. As it turns just as fast as a F16 20 degrees a sec.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:16 PM
LCA's missiles :

> R-77(R-VV AE)
> R-73
> R-27 (various versions)
> Meteor
> India's Astra BVRAAM
> Maybe even Sidewinder

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:20 PM
Quoted from another guy:

As we escort the Tomcat off the carrier decks and usher the Hornet aboard, one cannot help but get teary eyed at the thought of bidding farewell to this legendary fighter. It seems as if the United States Navy is accelerating it's retirement every time I turn around with Boeing turning out the Super Hornet off the assembly line so fast.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Hornet. It's just not the Tomcat. I think the beefy F-14 made the movie Top Gun more awesome than the F-18 could have. That is of course, if the Hornet was flying in 1986. The Tomcat is an American icon, sort of like the Chevy Corvette or Harley Davidson. Some analogies I like to make are like this. If the Tomcat were a car, it wouldn't be a nimble sports car. It would be a brutish loud as hell muscle car with glass packs the whole nine yards. If it were a pro-athlete it would not resemble a baseball or tennis player, but a huge linebacker ready to plow anything in it's path.

I think most will agree the F-14 or rather the "Tomcat'" is the best known fighter in America for it's name while probably the F-16 is better known for it's number. In 1995 my girlfriend (now lovely Wife) stepped into my Corvette for the first time which had an illuminated tangerine instrument cluster. "Wow, it look's like an F-16 in here." But she somehow knew Tom Cruise flew a Tomcat.

Sadly the time is drawing closer than we think to say farewell to our Tomcat. Operation Iraqi Freedom is probably the last time we will see the Tomcat fly in anger. During OIF, I recall watching CNN as the camera crews were aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. The newscaster was talking to one of the pilots as an F-14D sat on the catapult in the background about 2:00am. They were situated in the middle of the sea and the darkness seemed hauntingly eerie. Watching the F-14 barrel down the carrier deck and light up the Indian Ocean with it's huge GE-110's afterburning flames was an incredible sight to behold..

Evolution.. Sad but true. Now I guess this is how the F-4 Phantom guys felt.

Well, the F-14's days are gone. Its AIM-54 just was not designed to hit other fighters like MiGs or Sukhois but bombers, and AIM-7s just not accurate enough.

[edit on 10/6/05 by W4rl0rD]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:27 PM
Dunno much about the Mig-Sukhoi merger(if any) but there is some talk in India of state owned HAL acquiring 20% stake in Sukhoi.

Mig's worries would have lessened after india purchased Mig-29K's for INS Vikramadithya.

Mig's woes will all vanish if it wins the 126 aircraft deal with India. Inafact they're offering a latest variant with a new radar (newer than that on the Mig-29K !) and full fledged 3D TVC. But beating the block 70 AESA F-16 that's on offer with tech transfer and licenced production will be hard. And pipping the latest Mirage-2000 5 will be hard as well.

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:34 PM

Originally posted by tomcat ha
F14D Tomcat is still the best naval fighter. The only drawback it has is a poor rate of roll however when it starts turning instead of rolling it will get you. As it turns just as fast as a F16 20 degrees a sec.

It may have the same sustained turn rate (debatable), but the F-16 has a far better instantaneous turn rate and corner velocity.

As for the best naval fighter right now? It's a toss up between the Rafale M and the Super Hornet.

The Russian jets don't match up in terms of weapons or avionics.

And Stealth Spy, quit loading up all those pictures.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Hockeyguy567]

posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 02:53 PM
You sure about that? R-77s and R-73s for weapons seems more than a match for the AIM-120s and AIM-9s found on the typical American fighter. Avonics wise, I can't debunk your statement, but for the Indian versions, Israeli and French avonics will probably match up to the American avonics too.

And whats up with not loading those pictures? As long as they aren't oversized, they all look quite good to me. I'm fine with the pictures.

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