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Why do Masons ridicule others ??

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posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by gps777
i did`nt reffer it to freemasonry i reffered it to those who say they are christian masons


Ok? So what about the Muslim Masons? Bhudist Masons? Hell, look at my siggy, I promote the Church of the Sacred Pineapple.


Masons, would that be OK, I believe in it?


If you worship the sacred pineaple then ok you worship that?
you did`nt say i`m a Christian and worship the bannana that incorporates the pineaple God,Christian God,Bhudist God and any other God
Muslim Masons? as far as i have heard are less tolerant than Christians
beheadings and all.If they found out their brother has mixed allah with another God i suspect he could be killed.

Bhudists i know even less about them and i`m content with that,except for i`ve heard that rubbing his tummy is supposed to be good luck,but i`d guess followers of bhuda would`nt have a problem with their brothers becoming a Mason.Dos`nt bother me what they do.

As a Christian i`m instructed to look out for and my help my brothers which is what i`ve tried to do,the confusion i`m guessing is whether some were real Christians to begin with.Which is why i`m not talking about freemasonry as a whole but asking the individual christian mason`s a specific question.

I know your comments were tongue in cheek and it is funny i did have a chuckle,not that i`m putting down your pineaple God in anyway,oops but i did have a hawian pizza last week.




posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 05:58 AM
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From what I gather talking to local monks and whatnot the likely hood of any actual Budhists becoming a Freemasons is close to zero, for a start they don't believe in a supreme being of any sort.
Haing said that there are officially NO masonic lodges in Thailand, just the clandestine ones subordinate to the Grand Lodge of Malaysia and others.

On the other hand I do know quite a few "luke warm" budhists (well it's hard to call known pimps, drug dealers, prostitutes etc..."good" budhists) who were accepted with open arms if not coerced and even actively recruited.

In short The Freemasons will take anyone (including atheists) as long as they can snare you.
No formal religeous body that I know of endorses them and many (including the Anglican Church) actively discourage any association with them.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:51 AM
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For the second time, the first was lost when I "previewed" the post and went back to edit the thing it was gone, grrrrrr almost enough to make even a preacher cuss
anyway here goes .........



Originally posted by gps777

Mrfixit i believe the sticking point with Christians who critisize Mason`s is directed squarely at the Christian Mason the vast majority of the time,the reason for this is it is offensive to us at the very thought that God`s name has been included with other Gods,and in understanding how God feels on the very subject we cannot and will not except it.Again i`ll add some links to Christian Masons that have come to that very conclusion and left the lodges.
For you to say that its all wonderful and good and dos`nt conflict with your faith is only your opinion,when Gods word says the opposite.You can and probably will argue that these ex Masons were deceived we say no you have been according to Gods word.
www.emfj.org...
www.fish4masons.org...


I have read and checked out the links you so graciously provided. I think the confusion lies in the term GAOTU. This particular term is used to promote harmony and not to offend anyone that MIGHT be attending a Lodge meeting that is of another faith other than one of Christianity. I believe this is very doubtful at best but possible. I find it hard to believe that anyone but a Christian would take the pledges and oaths required to becoming a Freemason because you don't pledge or oath to the GAOTU but to God. All of the teachings of Freemasonry is based upon the Bible. All the Lodges are dedicated to God, not the GAOTU. God is the GAOTU and there is but ONE God and if you are having any trouble with this concept you should begin on Genesis 1:1 and read a bit then go to St. John 1:1 and read a bit, this should dispel any doubts you might have. I believe there is some confusion as to what happens during a Lodge meeting. It isn't anything like a church service. There isn't any Pagan gods rolled out and a time set aside to worship them. It pretty much goes like this, you say the Pledge of allegiance, lodge is opened, the minutes are read and approved, the bills are read and approved so the Lodge can have lights and heat, any old or new business is discussed and this includes Lodge building maintenance or charities and fundraisers or new petitions, Lodge is closed and its time to eat haha, the greatest secrecy of Freemasonry is the good food. No time is set aside for any worship service of any kind, let alone time for Pagan worship LOL.


In reading your post which i enjoyed reading i have no doubt you believe yourself a Christian,in my opinion you are just one step away from being one again,i had to wonder whether or not are you still attending the pentacostal church,due to your comments about Christian are the lost ones due to them being influenced by paganism.If i have understood that correctly are you stating that the KJV bible is`nt all you need for reference to reading Gods word?If so i disagree again.I found God by getting on my knee`s and asking him into my life without the Bible and he came into alright instantly,like yourself maybe?But the KJV is all i need to get Gods word.


The King James Version is a great translation, but it is merely a translation. Perhaps you should go back and attempt to translate some of the ancient Hebrew and Greek for yourself. You will find that there could be several translations for any given verse and any one translation could give you a completely different meaning to any one verse. There is also conflicts between what the word meant when it was originally wrote and what the word meant when King James had it translated for the masses and even what the word means now. So while the KJV is one of the best it doesn't necessarily mean it's the only translation. You need to find out things for yourself, not necessarily take someone's translation or version of events. Your salvation depends on you, not what your minister's take on it is. And you are correct by stating you will find out more on your knees in prayer than you will in any other way.


In my opinion it`s sad to see or watch people searching for something extra,extra knowledge,extra pleasure,extra money,extra extra extra people dont need extra all they need is to enter the Book not study it twist it or whatever there`s enough in that one book to last infinite life times.


Noone is twisting anything. You just need to realize while the Book you cherish is a great translation, it is but merely a translation. To find the real meaning on some things it is wise to go back to the ancient Greek and Hebrew Bible before it was translated.


Christs commandment for just one,love your lord God with all your heart all your soul all your mind,and yet God says he`s a jealous God,and what do you Masons do,incorporate his name with pagan Gods and when we object and say thats offencive to God therefore to us,what do Masons do call us everything under the sun and that we are not true Christians.


I beg your pardon Sir, you have stated several times in this post how we Freemasons are NOT Christians, but I have yet to state you wasn't a true Christian to the best of your knowledge. I think an apology is owed me. And for the record [see above] noone has incorporated God with some Pagan version. The term GAOTU is merely used to promote harmony. It is very doubtful that anyone but of a Christian persuasion is a Freemason to begin with.

I haven't incorporated his name with any pagans. As I stated above it's hard to believe that anyone but of a Christian faith would become a Freemason. The GAOTU is but a term used to prevent any discord or anything other than harmony in the Lodge. Of all the Lodge meetings I have attended I don't think I've heard the term GAOTU more than a dozen or so times.


Note: this isn't exactly like the first one, it's been abbreviated to a great extent due to time constraints but the gist of it is here.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS............
In short The Freemasons will take anyone (including atheists) as long as they can snare you.


In short, you MrNecros are stating falsehoods and lies. Does this mean you are but a lowdown liar? Yes, in my humble opinion it does. It means I believe you to be so full of crap on the subject of Freemasonry you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground. You have stated so many lies you have no idea what the truth is or what you have stated before hand without looking it up. This means in my humble opinion you are but trash and the only thing worse than a intentional liar is a intentional liar and thief. That's my take on it Sir and you can take it however you wish. Thanks for your time.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by mrfixit

Originally posted by MrNECROS............
In short The Freemasons will take anyone (including atheists) as long as they can snare you.


In short, you MrNecros are stating falsehoods and lies. Does this mean you are but a lowdown liar? Yes, in my humble opinion it does. It means I believe you to be so full of crap on the subject of Freemasonry you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground. You have stated so many lies you have no idea what the truth is or what you have stated before hand without looking it up. This means in my humble opinion you are but trash and the only thing worse than a intentional liar is a intentional liar and thief. That's my take on it Sir and you can take it however you wish. Thanks for your time.


Don't be too hard on him. He's just bitter because he tried to join a lodge and was rejected.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 06:53 PM
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Why do Masons ridicule others, indeed.

I have learned these things:

Leveller has a ketchup stain on his apron that he has not attended to for three months.

One of sebatwerk or senrak (forgive me for not hearing which, clearly, at the last phone conference of Masonic Conspiracy Forum Freemason Participation Observers) recently slipped up during ritual and contracted the term "penal sign" to sound like something phallic.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Good Afternoon,

Couldn’t help noticing the new replies that are nothing more than the old ones going around and around.

There is still a lot of emotion though with good reason. Also, I still noticed a lot of opinions without any back up ?

Since there is so much weight, weighed by (some masons-not all ) in reference to” You don’t know what you are talking about because you are not a mason ? ” This taken in and out of itself is ridiculous. Do you actually mean that I don’t know anything about catholism because I am not a catholic ? Or I don’t know anything about Wicca because I am not a witch and don’t cast spells ? There is no logic here whatsoever ?

Another example: I do not play tennis on the pro circuit as of yet, but I have read the books and have learned the game, I wear the outfit, the shoes, and have a racket and practice tennis everyday for 4hrs, I have a mentor and a coach, and am even sponsored. I also travel and play in tournaments for a multiple different regions in the US.

( Only to the masons that have this logic) Can you then intelligently say that I do not know anything about tennis ? Please keep your irrational logic to yourselves.

Since we are still continuing the discussion about the conflicts between masonry and Christianity and we have only talked about hypothetical situations, opinions or feelings let start out by talking specifics.

First we need to look at the obvious and realize that just because someone says that they are a Christian does not mean that they are in fact a ( True Christian ).

Another words: If you say that you are a Christian and belong to the Masonic lodge as well, there is really no conflict in this statement ( in general ) because many who claim to be Christians (are not.)

They never really (new) God. They didn’t have a relationship with Jesus. They have not walked the walk so to speak. They have not taken the time to learn Gods Word and Apply it to their life in a daily walk. They have not suffered for the name of Christ. They have not witnessed to build up the Kingdom of God. They may not have even prayed. Or maybe they did and felt that God did not answer their prayer. They may never have experienced the power of and in Christ or have seen a simple prayer or miracle manifested in Christs name. Another words, they themselves (have not experienced the power of the Holy Spirit.) Can you be a Christian without the power of the Holy Spirit ? Oops-Different Forum ! Sorry ! lol

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Another Fact- Jesus himself did not produce any miracles himself till he was baptized not just by water but by The Holy Spirit.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

The FILLING of the Spirit is what seperates christians and true christians. completely different then the DWELLING of the spirit. God’s Spirit Dwells in every Christian. Now the Filling of the Spirit fills us above and beyond giving us the power through Christ to teach, witness, effectively pray and receive answers, even manifest miracles in His name sake for HIS children and to edify the church to show the power and love of Christ that has not changed in over 2000 years. These are SOME signs of a TRUE believer or TRUE christain.

1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

TextGODS power did not leave this earth when Jesus did. His power is the same today, tomorrow and forever through the HOLY SPIRIT.

Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

See- When Jesus ( The Man ) left this earth he left us with the Holy Spirit as the great comforter.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So with that we need go back and ask the original question: Can a True Christian be involved with or be a Mason ?

Well- I guess that we need to ask within ourselves, if we are a TRUE CHRISTIAN or are we just a statistic Christian

Example: 2.1 Billion Christians in the world:

www.adherents.com...

Being that we label ourselves as Christians does not necessarily make us a Christian.

Going to church doesn’t make us Christians.
Owning a Bible does not make us Christians.
Our relatives that may be Christian does not make us Christian.
Reading the Bible does not make us a Christian.
Teaching Sunday or Sunday school does not make us Christian.
And hold your hats- Having the title of a preacher, minister, pastor, priest etc….. DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN.

So truly before we can ask the original question can a Mason be a Christian we need to understand what it means to be a TRUE CHRISTIAN as mentioned earlier on this thread by others and myself.

So actually the question should have really been-Can a TRUE CHRISTIAN BE A MASON ?

Once we have an understanding of this, we can move forward.
On the other hand if there is no “understanding” of the difference between a true Christian and a statistical Christian, there is no point in discussing ? And then we will know at what level of Christianity that you are involved or truly understand.

Would be interested in a genuine discussion about this in its totality if anyone is truly interested.

Please-We don't need any name calling, slandering or any other form of belittling someone because of their belief. If you have come here for this, stop wasting your time and others while we are discussing a very important topic that is important to us. If you have nothing postive to bring to the table just don't reply ! There has been a few different officials and moderators confirming this point as well. Take Head !

Lets learn-Have Fun-and Be Respectful to others even if we don't agree.

Oh Yeah- Lets not forget our sources !

Truth



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
[snip]
So actually the question should have really been-Can a TRUE CHRISTIAN BE A MASON ?

Once we have an understanding of this, we can move forward.



Truth,

There's really no "moving forward" with this thread because of one fundamental problem. YOU are defining what a TRUE Christian is. You don't know me (or Sebatwerk or any of the Masons on this list) You do NOT know the relationship that I have with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...only HE and I know that...not you...not ANYONE, so you cannot unequivocally say that I am not a TRUE Christian just because I am a Mason.

If you believe you CAN say this (which you obviously do) then the discussion cannot continue and why should it?

"Yes I am"

"No you're not"

"Yes I am"

"No you're not"

We get no where. The plain and simple truth is I am a devout Christian and I am a devoted Freemason. And there are MANY others just like me, whether you think we're Christians or not. Perhaps someday you'll be given authority to judge others, but I doubt it...since He said "Judge not.." but perhaps you missed that part of scripture.

Regards



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:27 PM
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Mrfixit what you wrote is not new to me i`ve read the same thing as your response over the last 3 years,i`m not for arguement sake quoting an antimason site,this is purely from what i`ve learned from the concistancy of what Masons provide here at ATS.I dont post alot because i dont really have alot else of value to add.

Masons would say we are consistant because its the truth,imo and all of Masons opinion i`m sure would say if you were`nt consistant the organisation would fail to exist or at least not be as it is today,but i`m not interested sorry in freemasonry as a whole my post was to those Mason Christians who might be willing to try and answer a question for me and i stand by what i said which has`nt been answered.

I can say your right you personely did`nt accuse myself as being not a Christian but if you read what i wrote it was`nt directed at you it was directed at those who did,my appoligy will be to every mason if you could answer my question regardless of the things they have called myself and others.

I also stand by what i`ve said that all you need is the KJV,i`m not disputing that it would be better if i could read it in Hebrew,but if its said that God has allowed me to not get his true word through an english translation of the KJV i will disagree and dispute it.

I`m not a fan of going around in circles like others and your reply did`nt deal with the question asked and i wont respond in future if you wont deal with the discussion,oh i see Mr Truth just posted i`ll hang up here, he just said it alot better than i have.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere


So actually the question should have really been-Can a TRUE CHRISTIAN BE A MASON ?

Truth




I give up, you win. No matter what's said or posted you continue to post scripture that isn't relevant to the argument at hand. Do you know of any scripture that says something along the lines of "thou shalt not become a Freemason" or "all Freemasons will burn in hell" or going along with the theme of bliblical times " all that belong to the stone masons guild are evil and worship a pagan god" . Any scripture along those lines?

I thought not.

Nevertheless, you win. I confess, .... You are the only true Christian in the whole wide world. Noone measures up to your greatness. The only perfect person in the whole wide world. You and you alone are the only one going to make it to heaven. I'm gleefully happy to tell you there also will be angels there to keep you company otherwise you might feel sorta lonely.
Good Luck to you my friend and don't forget to pray for us lowly sinners, the Good Lord knows unlike you we need all the help we can get.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by gps777

Masons would say we are consistant because its the truth,imo and all of Masons opinion i`m sure would say if you were`nt consistant the organisation would fail to exist or at least not be as it is today,but i`m not interested sorry in freemasonry as a whole my post was to those Mason Christians who might be willing to try and answer a question for me and i stand by what i said which has`nt been answered.


I'm sorry, I guess I missed your question. I even went back and looked again. The only question that really stood out is the one about "the KJV being the only book needed". I thought I answered that but here goes again .. there is books available at your local library or available at most Bible Bookstores that can help you in your quest to decipher some of the ancient Greek and Hebrew texts. You don't have to take someone else's translation if you choose not to. If there was another question that I failed to answer please bear with my obvious ignorance and post it again.


I can say your right you personely did`nt accuse myself as being not a Christian but if you read what i wrote it was`nt directed at you it was directed at those who did,my appoligy will be to every mason if you could answer my question regardless of the things they have called myself and others.


Again, I'm truly sorry. The question was? I apologize it's been a long day.


I also stand by what i`ve said that all you need is the KJV,i`m not disputing that it would be better if i could read it in Hebrew,but if its said that God has allowed me to not get his true word through an english translation of the KJV i will disagree and dispute it.


Again, see above. The tools are out there, one source for free and another source by purchasing.


I`m not a fan of going around in circles like others and your reply did`nt deal with the question asked and i wont respond in future if you wont deal with the discussion,oh i see Mr Truth just posted i`ll hang up here, he just said it alot better than i have.


??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Actually you was doing a fine job bringing in your point, no need to stop now and allow Truth, of all people, to continue your side of the debate.




posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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Boy- The Spirit of God sure is convicting today I can see !

I am inmpressed. You have become irrational and irrogent at the same time as well as avoiding the Truth !

Why have YOU turned away and made this into a judgemental issue ? I have not ! Great Tactic Though ! It prevents you from aknowledging the Truth and answering the questions.

Boy- speak of irrational thinking ! You say that I am judging because I am using the Word of God to show you how the Christian GOD judges ?

You are mistaken. Are you Christian are you not ? If you were, you would be worried about Gods Judgment. If you are not a christian than don't worry and keep on living your life the way that you are. Because it doesn't matter anyway !

It is very obvious and apparent that you have some concerns over your relationship with God due to your reply ! lol -My Gosh ! Relax.

Your response was very typical of a non-christian response. I at least expected you to bring up some kind of a valid theological point ? in a christian sort of way.

Why do you scoff at other non membered christians when they place scriptures that apply to you since you are a christian ? You know out of the christian bible ? Makes perfect sense huh !

To answer your lame question about the bible not mentioning man not to be involved in FreeMasonry ?

Here is your answer Sir !

Paul warned the Christians at Corinth not to participate in pagan worship. He revealed that pagans worship demons rather than God.

Does that mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything?

No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)

Let me ask you a question Sir: In Honor of Michael Jackson

If the bible doesn't specifically say to Michael " Michael- You are not supposed to sleep with little boys that means it's ok to do so ?

If this is your frame of thinking, I think you need to take a look at your own values and morals and forget about Masonry and Christianity ! You sound dangerous to society, Hense

If you need someone to talk too. Don't be afriad to u2u me. Knowone else has to know !

Truth



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Damn.

I wanted to commend Truth for expanding the MA vocabulary, which happens too infrequently at ATS, but the path to thanks was stumbled upon thusly:

www.google.co.nz...



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
Since there is so much weight, weighed by (some masons-not all ) in reference to” You don’t know what you are talking about because you are not a mason ? ” This taken in and out of itself is ridiculous. Do you actually mean that I don’t know anything about catholism because I am not a catholic ?


You are SUCH a hypocrite!!! First you claim that Freemasonry is a secret society, a secretive cult, and then turn around and say that there's no reason you shouldnt be able to know all about it!?!?

The fact of the matter is that Masonic degrees and meetings are for masons only. They are an experience, an it is only possible to KNOW an experience by actually going through it yourself. Therefore, no you cannot possibly know what it is like to be a mason.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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If someone was to come on these boards and pretend to be a Mason it would`nt be long for true Mason`s to figure out he is`nt,like wise when true Christian`s see Christian`s that are not true they are recognisable to us.
The point was that people can find out enough about freemasonry to make a judgement on it,without having to become one.
Sound hypocritical?



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
If someone was to come on these boards and pretend to be a Mason it would`nt be long for true Mason`s to figure out he is`nt,like wise when true Christian`s see Christian`s that are not true they are recognisable to us.



This is not quite true. The means of recognition are not available via an internet "handshake" or other communication at ATS, and it becomes a matter or trust or convoluted extra-curricular verbal pirhouetting.



There is one 'famous' multiple identity banned from ATS numerous times (for various T&C violations and lack of decorum) who posted frequently as if a Freemason. I was never given cause to doubt that he was, but another member was convinced that he was not a Mason, and provided evidence to confirm that he was not.

Not that it matters - this is a random gathering of cyber-identities in a virtual space and not a Lodge meeting where anything could truly be recognized.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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*stops music*

OK truth, I am going to try this one more time...

In response to this post, I want you to answer this post.

This is very irritating. By ignoring this post, you are doing damage to your own argument, you know that, right?


*starts music again*



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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With as many posts as he ignored his argument is already shot to hell.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
If someone was to come on these boards and pretend to be a Mason it would`nt be long for true Mason`s to figure out he is`nt,like wise when true Christian`s see Christian`s that are not true they are recognisable to us.


That is absolutely false. You have no idea of my history, my time spent with God, my actions, my faith. You are not in my mind, you don't know the strength of my convictions and the magnitude of my belief. You don't know when I pray, when I repent, nor do you know how often my God and my Lord is in my thoughts. You have NO IDEA who I am. You cannot possibly know what kind of Christian I am, simply based on a MISCONCEPTION you have of my fraternity.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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This thread is a waste of time and a moderator even forbid it. The only reasons the masons on here "ridicule" others is because people like you use slander against them. If you actually researched masonry you would realize you don't know jack about it.

That is all, move along, nothing to see here!

[edit on 6-13-2005 by CPYKOmega]




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