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is christianity a hoax?

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posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 11:57 AM

Originally posted by jake1997
no... israel is not in prophecy, jerusalem is not a burdensome stone to the world, and ishmaels hand is not against every nation and visa versa.

If I hadnt already supplied verses for the above... I would feel the need to do it now.

Don't let it get you down, Jake; It appears they have already hardened their heart to the truth. You're just confusing them with the facts.

Tim 3:1-5 "But of this be assured: in the last days grievous times will set in.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, profane. They will be disobedient to parents, thankless, irreligious, 3 destitute of natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers. They will have no self-control, but will be brutal, opposed to goodness, 4 treacherous, headstrong, self-important. They will love pleasure instead of loving God, 5 and will keep up a make-believe of piety and yet live in defiance of its power. Turn away from people of this sort." (Weymouth New Testament)

I think that the part that most applies to this thread is verse 5, but I included the previous 4 verses, to keep things in context.

If someone is seriously anxious to know the "truth", with a capitol "T", they would examine the evidence with more than a wink and a nod, and not then refuse to let it change their opinion. But once a person has really made up their mind not to believe, then we're just spinning our wheels, trying to convince them other-wise.

" A man convinced against his will,
is of the same opinion, still" Dwight D Moody

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 01:52 PM

Originally posted by jake1997
The following is not just about Israel. It is about Christ and speaks also of what comes next

Isa 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isa 49:7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages

I don't believe consenus is possible regarding Irael and prophecy, but I feel compelled to point out that Isaiah 49-53 are not Messianic prophecies at all. I don't expect you to accept that because it would destroy the inerrancy of the NT (unless you take the "dual prophecy" approach).

The servant referred to is not the Messiah, it is the nation of Israel itself. Read through it with that context and you'll see that it fits perfectly. Not only that, but the context is explicitly spelled out in Isaiah 49:3.

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 02:35 PM
49:6 shows that God is not speaking to Israel, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and restore israel

God is talking to/about someone else.

The USA?

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 04:38 PM

Originally posted by jake1997
49:6 shows that God is not speaking to Israel, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and restore israel

Isaiah 49:6
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

There's nothing here that is contrary to the interpretation given in 49:3 that the servant is the nation of Israel itself. This is totally consistent with the thoecratic mindset of the writer, where Israel is god's chosen nation, and the Israelites his chosen people.

posted on Jul, 22 2005 @ 08:54 PM
I really have no way to substatiate that which I am about to say--it is one of things that just come from inside.

Somehow Christ as the Messiah is also Israel--I don't know how to explain it, since it is an understanding that's never been formed in actual words. I will make an attempt, however--and solely for the sake of those who might read my words and ponder them with the Spirit. I don't wish to 'make a point' or 'prove' one, either. I just feel compelled to share something I know was given to me for that express purpose.

We all have something to share with each other--knowledge that God has given directly into our souls. When I say 'we' I mean all those who know what I am saying here.

About Israel--'el' on the end of a name indicates a 'malak'--a 'messenger' from God, often an angel, or archangel, prophet, apostle, etc..
Michael (who is like God) Israel means 'prevails or strives with God'
I think Gabriel means (the strength of God) but I can't recall at the moment.

Anyway--Jacob (the deciever) became Israel--declared by God Himself.

Rather than explain all this--I'll give some verses and info and anyone who really cares can find out on their own, and know what there is to know directly from God. I'm just giving a 'heads up' for I am no teacher.

Genesis chapter 16, 22, 24, 31, 48
The book of Exodus
Numbers 22
Judges 6, 13

Study the word 'angel' in the OT with an open mind.

Then read Matthew chapter 18, esp verse 10.
Then read Revelation 21:17.

Ask God to reveal this to you--in regard to Angels.

Concept: Angels are 'Heads' and assemblies of mortal men are 'bodies.'

The LORD of Hosts is the captain of God's army--the captain is the Head.

The four spirits at the throne of God are 'Heads'.

Christ is the Head of the Body which is the called out of the assembly.

Christ is the head of the body and it is Israel.

Think about and study, also, the words 'prince' and 'elect'.

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