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Amazing new UFO Footage, June 8 Phoenix

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posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by menacer


Well just to let you all know... hummm I'm here in Hollywood , Los Angeles myself and I do VFX for a living NOT A DIRECTOR but the creater... If you would like to know my name I have no problems saying it.... Also you can look up my credits from yahoo...

I will be doing 2 videos... one that looks smiler to this one and one that should look the correct way...


Hey Jer, Take a look at this recreation made by wahrheit from Germany.
It's awesome. Now I see what you meant and how easy is to fake the footage when you have the skills and the programs. I'm sure your own recreation will be also awesome man.

I would like to have your personal email Jer to send you more information and also ask you important issues. Here's the link to wahrheit's recreation
of the UFO from Phoenix. Format Quicktime 22 MB. Enjoy.

cmath.free.fr...




posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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to the experts:

is there a possibility to fake(redo) this video without cgi and if so how would you do it?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by feyd rautha
to the experts:

is there a possibility to fake(redo) this video without cgi and if so how would you do it?

Well I'm no expert.. but, I think you could point lasers at the lens?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by mysraki

Hey Jer, Take a look at this recreation made by wahrheit from Germany.
It's awesome.

cmath.free.fr...



This video is pretty good. The creator didn't attempt the extreme zoom
sequence from the original video. It is the extreme zoom part that looks
the most like real footage and not CG to me. Sure it may be possible to recreate this extreme zoom effect but not easy. Especially to keep it
looking exactly like what a real video camera gives you in such an instance.
Of course you could use a model of actual footage to replicate with your
CG but again, not easy.

Information that would help to determine the fact or fiction of the original
video would be the photographer's background. Does he know CG. Does
have friends that know CG. Not any easy thing to determine via the
Internet.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by UofCinLA
HALO drop - they do use flares and lights on night training drops....


are you refering to the arizona clip?

if so, explain to me how the flares accend?

Oh wait, there could be a chopper and the flares are on puppet strings...or NOT. The plot thickens.


(I'm sick of this whole "it HAS to be fake, it doesn't look right" - like someone to explain what would look right)



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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jritzmann -


I dont exactly know what thats supposed to verify. Thats your main backing for stating it's CGI? That you do CGI?


Ummm yes... Just click the link and look at my credits for proof.
Jerald Doerr - Google search

mysraki --- ALL I CAN SAY IS YOUR MY HERO!!!! and thanks!!! My E-mail is menacer@adelphia.net E-mail me anytime.

1st off some things need to be cleared up here... people are getting VFX / CGI and FX all mixed up... I do the type of VFX = Visual effect that are on the computer.. as in adding effect to Film and Video to Real live shots = Background plates.. I also do 3D Animation and 3D Models in the computer. Now there is a deferent type of VFX artiest... that do things with REAL models / miniatures and add to live video.. Like all the ships in the original starwars . Now if anyone has seen the remakes of the original starwars they remade them with Computer 3D models witch allows you to do ANYTHING you want.

OK now to set this striate... The fake lights / so called UFO's your seeing in this shot are computer generated blobs with there own motion paths.. there’s no tricks with a camera nothing of the sort... this guy went out shot the video looking at nothing but the hill top knowing that he was going to add fake lights later on the computer.

That video should be proof enough for people here... if they see this remake and say its it looks any deferent from the fake one they have to be out of there mind!!!! Actually the new one looks 10 times better.. He did a EXCELLENT job!

Ok now everyone that thinks the video is real complains about the debunker's not giving good enough reasons why it’s fake??? GIVE ME A BRAKE!! I spent about half a day working and trying to explain this step by step and people still replay with ... Ahhh lights all the same shape that’s not enough... If you look back in the post I think I gave a lot reasons why it’s CG... I said I have plenty more ammunition for this video so I will load up my gun and try to clear some more things up...


TruthCanHurt ---- Love your name.... and it sure can and its about to...



Information that would help to determine the fact or fiction of the original
video would be the photographer's background. Does he know CG. Does
have friends that know CG. Not any easy thing to determine via the
Internet.


Yup.... Check this out.. I busted them evilution sent this link... but I'm sending you a direct link from that page... I want you to read this line that I took from the page.

" the frames were simply de interlaced for this simple analysis and enlarged what the skeptic said was proof of a hoax.. "

You can take the interlace out, add your CG lights and put the interlace right back on... Walla , It looks like it was filmed with the origanel shot...

TRUST ME!!! I DO IT ALL DAY LONG... Get my video plates... take the interlace out... add my CG effect put the interlace back in...

If you really want to get technical.. its fields and interlace... TV\Video cams have Fields and film\movie cameras dont.. If you shot something with film at 24 frames per second every frame looks like a clear pic \ Digital cam pic.. Home Video camras will merg 2 frames into 1 as to trick your eye into thinking the video is much smother.


Also if you read what hes trying to say at the bottom of this link.. Hes trying to pass it off as not being some trick with the camera and mirror or whatever... ITS ALL BS to throw you off... ITS CG you can do whatever you like.. each light has 100's of deferent settings you can aplay... color , flicker.. motion... sharpnes... contrast .. size.. exetra... I could go on forever...

Ok... Now heres something... You guys are already talking about the new video not having the extreme zoom.... well here we go...

Two types of zoom.... REAL zoom and Digital zoom... As many of you might know your digital camera might have say 6x real zoom and 10x digital zoom... Lets see if I can explane this... If you take a look at his video before he cuts he is using all real zoom... as in the cameras linz moves... If you look at his video after the cut his camera is now using Digital zome... How can you tell?? Well all video cameras have noise / grain in the frame digital zoom is like you looking at your TV from 5 feet away and moving you face two say 2 inches away from the TV . What you will see is pixels and not a clear image... The same thing goes on if you zoom into a digital pic that you have already taking...

So what I'm getting at is the computer is zooming in on the video frame that he already shot... this way you can re-frame something real easy.. I will send some pics so you can understand a little more.








Funny thing just happend... My girlfriend just took a look at this video and giggled withing the 1st 10 seconds.. and said... You did not do this did you?? She called it out fake under ten seconds.. and trust me.. just because she is my woman dose not me she agrees with me or would..

Note that she is a sculptor and has credits for Spider man 2 , Alain vs Predator and more.. Not much know how in the CGI world.

I don't see much point in me redoing this video after seeing what the German guy did but I opened my face so I will still do as I said.

I want to end this off with something I've said before.. I wish just as much as you all do that this video was real.. But its not and thats all there is to it.. I really feel sorry for the guys that made this because there in a big mess now.. They faked it and now I see what lengths they went too ... to prove that its real..


[edit on 17-6-2005 by menacer]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:07 AM
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feyd rautha -


to the experts:

is there a possibility to fake(redo) this video without cgi and if so how would you do it?



I could not even come close to it.... I'm sure someone could... but it would look much defent... Even if you did something with lasers like Nventual was talking about it would look TOTALLY deferent.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by menacer]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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The plot is beginning to sicken.

I've been talking to the shooter in emails, and have always gotten unusually fast responses....until I asked some questions as what he did for a living, had he ever shot ufos before and is he involved in the UFO community...along with some others. (some admittedly odd, but thats just my sideline of questioning.)

I have not heard back all day and all last night. While I dont make any conclusions til I see the direct dub, a sudden drop off in contact usually means for me, a question someone didnt want to answer. I emphasized that all info gleaned from questioning was strictly confidential.

::::silence::::

Even after seeing the German recreate, I'm sorry but it only proves it can be done, not that this *was* done in such a way. The zoom may have been an after edit done for the web presentation. I'll say it again:

WE know nothing, NOTHING concrete about any of the video, nor now, the shooter.

If it is a hoax of some kind, one has to ask why. Why someone would take such a risk, why someone would go to such lengths. I dunno, I guess everyone gets off one way or another. Either way, even with no contact with a shooter, someone down the line cracks and spills the beans...might be what happens here.

Without any answers to questions put forth to the shooter, this one's gonna go on the woodpile. If Menacer is right and it's CG'd, by someone not all that versed, or a home hobbyist, they did a killer job on the scintillation based on the wind for that night...and I'll give em that. But as of now, I cant even get out of him if he used a night-shot setting.

I wont be convinced it's anything (CG, UFO or otherwise) til I get a dub...but this cut in contact makes me more wary then I was.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:07 AM
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To me this looks real. I dont know anything about cgi but its just a gut feeling if you will. Several people have said theres no reaction from the person filming it. You dont here anything, etc. Actually you do here the people talking. I think the truly sad thing is there are so many people willing to try to debunk this thing to hell and back. (And it seems to be the same for any compelling evidence on ufos. ) That when the real deal happens if it hasnt already no one is gonna realize it. They will all be to busy calling BS. The aliens are liable to skip right by this rock of ours and put our inteligence down as retarded as best.

One other thing.. Menacer why the name dropping and hinting at what you and your gf do for a living? If anything to me thats just tacky. If you know what your talking about great. But trying to bring in what you do or dont do for living isnt really needed. If you know your facts speak for themselves.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Whompa1]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:14 AM
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Your right, we all would like to think this was real.
Even if the shooter of this video ends up claiming it was fake, people are still going to believe it's real and think that the Government payed him off. It's happaned other times.
Basically, some things are best left untouched.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by feyd rautha
to the experts:

is there a possibility to fake(redo) this video without cgi and if so how would you do it?



Well i wouldnt go as far as to call myself an expert, i do have plenty of video editing, compositing and 3d experience....

IMHO this is some cheap compositing that can be made in an hour with a program such as Adobe AE, Combustion or Digital Fusion...

The "lights" look like a simple airbrushed dots.....impressive? not a bit

but hey, you asked



just my 2 cents



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:42 AM
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One other thing.. Menacer why the name dropping and hinting at what you and your gf do for a living? If anything to me thats just tacky. If you know what your talking about great. But trying to bring in what you do or dont do for living isnt really needed. If you know your facts speak for themselves.


Takes a thief to point out a thief.... Not that I'm a thief ... but I hope you get my point..

I work with CG effects... thats my job... I have spent a lot of time looking at the way things work on and off film and video... my job is to duplicate things and make them look as they should on film or TV... I go to a movie I cant watch it.. All I do is look at the effects...

If we where talking about how a car works you would not see me in here talking about.. Well I do CGI for a living and I know how a car works???

All I'm saying is I have a trained eye for things that most people cant see.. even if you could how would you know if it matters or not?

So the name dropping is for proof that I know what I'm talking about and not just BSing you.


[edit on 17-6-2005 by menacer]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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How about a little experment menacer,

If you have the time why not try your own skills out to show people how easly it can be done, make your own fake ufo video.

Merkz out..



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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I agree.
I'm still close to 100% sure that this is real, not CGI.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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Guys, ya'll are trying to prove or disprove a negative...why go thru all this work for what can be gleaned from a dub?

The video looks good, but that doesnt make it real or unreal.

Again we know precisely *nothing* about it or the shooter. Menacer is seeing earmarks I do not consider completely concrete. Some I dont see present at all.

One thing I do see the more chances I get to look at it, is the one light "locking in" to the formation. It resembles something interesting I had not noticed...but I'll save that.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Whoa, menacer, thats quite a resume!

Can we use you as a special expert in future video discussions / debates?

If you have that much experience in this field I don't see any reason to doubt your conclusions.

Also would you be opposed to members u2u'ing you if they ever record something unusual on tape - so as to help back up their sincerity / authenticity?




posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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Hmm i smell a new subject matter expert in the works, and yes that is a fine resume, I really think it would be a good idea to see what menacer can fabricate
just to see what sort of quality we can expect from hoaxers in the future.

In this day and age with all the tech around us its becoming easier and easier to hoax these sort of things, to me personally i want to belive in the video in question but it looks to good to be true, and menacer has made some very valid points from what i can see.

Merkz out..



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
The plot is beginning to sicken.

I've been talking to the shooter in emails, and have always gotten unusually fast responses....until I asked some questions as what he did for a living, had he ever shot ufos before and is he involved in the UFO community...along with some others. (some admittedly odd, but thats just my sideline of questioning.)

I have not heard back all day and all last night. While I dont make any conclusions til I see the direct dub, a sudden drop off in contact usually means for me, a question someone didnt want to answer. I emphasized that all info gleaned from questioning was strictly confidential.

::::silence::::

Here's some information about Brian Bessent, the guy who allegedly shot
the video. Brian Bessent sells ufo DVDs for a living. He's also a musician.
Bessent has been selling the DVD Signs from the Sky for sometime, a DVD that includes ufo videoclips from diferent persons mainly from Arizona.

Brian Bessent has a website UFO Theatre and runs a PYRAMEDIA company
in Texas selling the ufo DVD's. Bessent lives currently in Texas and said he was temporarely visiting Phoenix when he shot the video. This results
suspicious.

Brian Bessent tried to deceive the people in 2003 claiming he videotaped a ufo flotilla over San Saba Texas. The video was posted in his website UFO Theatre. The footage resulted a flock of birds and was disqualified immediately by the ufologists. See Brian's birds flotilla:

www.ufocasebook.com...

Short later Brian Bessent surprisingly attempted again to deceive the people with a new alleged ufo flotilla video he claimed this time was the real thing. This new video resulted another flock of birds. The ufo community began to laugh about Bessent's naivety. Needless to say Brian removed immediatelly both birds videos from his ufo theatre website.
Here's Bessent second birds flotilla video:

www.geocities.com...

So far the historial of this guy has been very controversial. Brian Bessent is known to be a violent man with a temperamental personality. His background in ufology is dissapointing. I suggest don't insist to contact him
if he stopped the correspondence. If you pressure him most probably you will receive an unpleaseant reply. In the next two days an important announcement will be made reagrding Brian Bessent and his alleged ufo footage from Phoenix. I'll keep you informed.

Here is more information about Brian Bessent:

www.geocities.com...



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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well there ya go.

I'd never heard to the guy in my life...oh well, another on the woodpile.

My question now is who actually put it together.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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I guess that does suggest that it's fake..


[edit on 17-6-2005 by Nventual]




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