Is the government hiding the real state of the economy?

Bush keeps saying the economy is on track and growing. Greenspan says the economy is OK. Then why is everyone I know out of work? Why do I see new announcements of job cuts here and job cuts there? Why is everyone talking about the housing bubble? Why does the stock market keep going down?

The government says we're not in recession. Then WHY does everything seems so depressed? Could the government be hiding the true state of the economy for political purposes?

Well that is a long question, and will get many different ansers, but in short I do think much about the economey is being hidden, or kepts away from the public. With the ever larger debp and the growing intrest, that cycle of managment just can not go on. I see only one way out of that mess, DEFAULT. Since the debt is held by banks and such like that, they will be the ones who loose everything.

Recently I heard even though the Fed was raising intrest rates the banks were not on the morgage rates. So the Fed lowered theres back, so one must ask, "what do the morgage companies know that the rest of us dont?" I think they see a bad recession comeing.

That is just me. Perhaps I am being a bit to dark on this topic. If it means anything I do hope I am wrong.

I guess it depends on where you live and what you do. Arizona has tremendous job opportunities, if you have some technical training.

Nationwide, The stock market, both the NASDAQ ( finance.yahoo.com... )and the DJ ( finance.yahoo.com... ) are moving pretty steadily upward, at leat based over the past couple years.

The GDP has been growing at about 3.5% per year over the past couple of years.

Housing in Arizona has appreciated fantastically in the past four years, with a typical house bought for $150k in 2001 selling for $275k now. Most people believe the housing market will level off, but very few economists are looking for a "bubble" or anything like that.

If you have any technical background or education, and can stand hot summers, come on out to Arizona; the economy's fine!

If they ARE hiding something, I think the government underestimates our ability to derive the truth from what we see every day.

I would agree that things don't look so good. I have no idea what the consequences might be if there were a default. My paranoia is probably worse than most - I've stopped buying US Gov't savings bonds. Maybe it is paranoia, but why has the government suddenly extended terms on them so you can't cash them in 6 months?

I'm not sure what effect it would have to conceal the real state of the economy, except to put it off for a few months. Perhaps those in the know are liquidating their assets as we speak. Although how they could protect any assets in a true economic meltdown is unknown.

Bush cannot hide anything about the state of the US economy.

The economic measures and constructs that are used to assess the US national position are solid and quite transparent, not malleable.

What he can do is a basic "how to lie with statistics" in his messaging to a largely gullible US public. That is simply being selective and using a few soundbites to help you to feel all is well. The POTUS job in a criminal administration is to delude you into false sense of security.

But the truth is all there in the indicators. Take a dose of employment figures with your GNP, some job gains and losses and foreign debt and balance of trade with your "how much did the Bush administration cronies earn from war profiteering this month?"

It seems odd to me that on the one hand they say all is well, and yet on the other hand web sites like Yahoo and CNN are saying we have a housing bubble that's about to pop, economists are saying they're worried, and what I see doesn't reflect what I'm hearing from the government.

And I would disagree that the government CAN'T hide the state of the economy. Many of the economic indicators are produced and made public by the government itself.

Considering how deep in the pockets of corporate America the pols are, and how long the Enron scandal was kept quiet, I think the government can hide one heck of a lot of economic trouble for a lengthy period of time. Corporations have no vested interest in getting the truth out since it would depress their stock prices and potentially make business even worse. And telling all the secrets would definately not protect the assets of any of those in the know.

I'm not saying the government IS hiding anything, I'm just saying something seems fishy.

Yes! The economy of the United States of America is under attack ... from within!

China & Japan own Billions of Dollars of American Debt... They are the ONLY reason why we are not in a recession.

The interest rates are artificially low right now in order to interest people in taking our debt and mortgages to keep the economy going.

The USA dollar is artificially over valued

World Nations are considering new currencies for the Reserve... like the Euro. (but the Euro is having its own problems now)

The Housing Bubble in America will lead to more people claiming Bankruptcy because they are taking out mortgages where you only pay the interest and not the principal balance... what is going to happen when this Housing Bubble Bursts? People will owe more money to the bank for their house, than it is worth!

GM is cutting Jobs ... and unless they partner up with Toyota ... they will have to declare bankruptcy and... that would be like 1000 times worse than WorldCom the worst bankruptcy ever. All of those people will lose their pentions.

The economy is not creating as many jobs as it is loosing overseas. Last month USA only created 78,000 new jobs ... that number is usually around 200,000 for this time of year.


The economy of the Unites States is ready for a collapse worse than anything ever in history. are you prepared?

Read this article to learn more!

www.rense.com...

I am a Mortgage Banker for Ameriquest, and YES, I see the crash coming.

BUY GOLD !!! BUY GOLD !!! BUY GOLD !!!

because your fiat currency has no real value!

I don't belive that the government is quite lying about the state of the economy so much as how fragile it actually is. There are so many factors influencing the economy it would be impossible to cover them all. Energy is the driving force behind all economies, because it takes energy to produce and generate revenue. Therefore its impossible to seperate the two when talking about the world economy. Of course to openly admit dependence on foreign oil and admit that it is being rapidly depleted would not be in the best interest of the government so no metion is ever made on the subject and most people (even economists) continue to focus on which stock is doing well and which company is on the verge of bankruptcy because as we narrow the scope of our view we are less likely to see the whole picture and realize that most of the things our economy relies upon are very much unstable and very much out of our control.

All oil from OPEC is sold for dollars only as per an agreement laid out circa the 1950s, and so in order for any country to buy oil, they need US dollars.
The best way to get US dollars is to sell us cheap goods that we can buy at Wal-Mart (or wherever). This situation makes the dollar obviously very valuable, but also dependant on the fact that its the only currency that OPEC accepts.

It seems to me that securing the last large oil reserves is a last ditch move to ensure that even as an energy crisis comes to fruition our economy remains at least better off than much of the rest of the world. Although I say "last ditch" its really been done very far in advance, I think mainly because the govt had the support of the people, and perhaps also accelerated by Iraqs move to sell its oil for euros in November of 2000. If OPEC decided to follow siut and sell oil for Euros, already of higher value than the US dollar, the dollars value would plummet overnight. There are a few reasons that will keep OPEC from switching, for instance the billions of dollars that the Saudi royal family has invested in the US government. But even so, if the dollar continues to devalue on the international market and the huge trade deficit to China continues, its going to be very difficult to convince the world that the dollar is still the best investment as a reserve currency.


Theres tons of info on all of this on the web. Some of it makes for heavy reading but with a little research most of the concepts are within grasp of those without a degree in economics. Heres a link with a pretty good overview.

www.feasta.org...

I think the problem is the economy is so fragile at this point that a bit of a bump anywhere in the system will just send it over the edge.

I've been around a long time, and I don't personally recall ever seeing sentiment quite this bad. Perhaps it's the dark before the dawn. Perhaps it's the dark before the precipice.

Some people here need to seriously brush up on international currency trading and international trade.... Read up on the Fed and other central banks and how they work and then come back. I will admit the Fed creation was an abomination of our laws but oh well....

Trust me - there are no dollars flying back and forth....

One of the underlying principles, in my opinion, is that as culture would have you believe that the world is always moving forward with the end result being that everyone can own a nice house and afford medical care and enjoy the luxuries of the well-to-do, the obvious reality is that there is no way everyone on earth could live by the standards most americans are used to. There arent enough resources to support it now, much less with an everexpanding population.

Economic collapse is one of those things that always seems around the corner, but never happens. The only thing that is constant is change, and I just try to remember that every great civilization thought at one point that theirs would be around forever too. One day people will look back at modern american culture and wonder how we could be so arrogant.


UofCinLA please be more specific about any inaccurate statements made in any posts. I think most here realize there are no real dollars "flying back and forth", and thats just how it sounds when you make general statements about the world economy.

The problem with the inevitable economic collapses is most people would rather not live through one. The Great Depression happened, and yet everyone seems to think it can never happen again.

Every empire falls. I wouldn't have wanted to be around when Rome fell.

I suspose the frustration of being human is that one can't choose which events one wants to live through - we have to take things as they come, even if events are catastrophic. I often read about the events leading up to WWII and think I wouldn't have wanted to live through all that. I KNOW I wouldn't have wanted to live through the Great Depression. But in life, those choices aren't mine to make.

I do, however, think open eyes and preplanning are good tools for whatever bit of foolishness drops in my lap.

In a word, yes. They are hiding the state of the economy. Our economy in its current state is kept afloat by the prison system. That's not a very reassuring thought..when you think about it.

I live in one of those places that lost its manufacturing to overseas labor, and is struggling to re-invent itself as a tourist destination. Tell people here how great the economy is doing.

We got our legs cut out from under us, pure and simple. Thankfully we were already snared in the hangman's noose, and it has kept us aloft.

I'm being intentionally grim in an effort to reflect how messed up I think the situation really is.

What's odd is that sometimes I think the government's actions actually cause the economy to suffer. Perhaps the supposed 'hand-off' approach is actually a plan to undermine the economy?

What reasons might the government have to undermine our economy?

The reason they want a bad economy is because they hate the middle class.

When a country is divided into the ultra-rich and the ultra-poor it is much easier to instill a dictatorship.

Unemployment goes down when people stop getting their checks, and suddenly, the economy is better.

Our unemploynent rates are lies.

They don't count you unless you actually recieve unemployment benifits.

How would economic collapse allow them to install a dictatorship? I'd think, if anything, people would be less likely to allow that person to run the country after he'd brought it to rack and ruin. The government might get away with creating a dictatorship if no one owned guns, but a big chunk of America is packing... Not to mention the fact that I doubt very seriously that our military would follow a President determined to create a dictatorship. The state of our country is bad, but not THAT bad.

Any ideas on what other reasons they might have for wanting economic collapse? A better way to make money, perhaps? In the end, I always think it's either about money, or about power.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
In a word, yes. They are hiding the state of the economy. Our economy in its current state is kept afloat by the prison system. That's not a very reassuring thought..when you think about it.

I am sorry for your communities loss.

Can you please explain how our economy is dependant on the prison system.

I did a search and couldn't find anything.

A link would be nice!

Thanks!

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
How would economic collapse allow them to install a dictatorship? I'd think, if anything, people would be less likely to allow that person to run the country after he'd brought it to rack and ruin.

Well it would be brought on, a better word would be staged ... as a terrorist attack that lead to economic collapse. When really it was all of the military spending.

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
The government might get away with creating a dictatorship if no one owned guns, but a big chunk of America is packing...

Yeah, but have you considered the arsenal of the government? They could gas a whole city ... sleeping gas ... and then pick up the pieces. They have gps tracking, helicopters, night vision, ultra violet, heat sensing ... ect, ect.

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
Not to mention the fact that I doubt very seriously that our military would follow a President determined to create a dictatorship. The state of our country is bad, but not THAT bad.

People are really just smart animals, and smart animals can be trained and are generally stupid. If Bush sells it as fullfilling Manifest Destiny and Creating the American Federal Empire ... he could rally a lot of support ... and then put his enemies in prison. Hitler did it ... Right After the Great Depression. When people have no money and no job and no food ... they look for a leader... and in the absense of true leadership they will follow the loudest voice in the crowd. Hitler knew this, and that is how he was able to install his Police State.

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
Any ideas on what other reasons they might have for wanting economic collapse? A better way to make money, perhaps? In the end, I always think it's either about money, or about power.

Yeah I know Why! Its because the wealthiest 5% ... are more Greedy than you can ever imagine.

They are staging this collapse because ... follow me here.

Right now you buy a stock lets call it XXX for 25$ per share ...

The economy collapses ... and you loose all of your investment.

However, on the stock market you can actually make money if you know the stock is going to lose value... its called "SHORTING"

So the economy collapses and all the people in the know make money by shorting the stocks...

Now after the collapse stock XXX is only worth 5$ per share. And since the people in the know actually PROFITTED while the stock was loosing money can now REINVEST the money into the stock.

Basically if you know when this is all going to go down ... you can become RICH DURING THE GREATEST DEPRESSION of 2006

I don't know about hiding info on the economy but I do know the Bush administation changed some of the wording in some reports...like Mcdonnels/mikkyD's jobs were added to the manufacturing jobs lists...

The economy is no where near as strong as it was in the 90's...and Ford and GM are hurting and laying off workers..

I do believe there is a housing bubble.

Thanks where2hide for answering that.

Also think about it wing.

Saddam had a dictatorship and everyone owned AK's. Small arms can protect you from the police, but not the army.

Look at any country with a dictatorship. There is a HUGE difference between rich and poor, as well as a very small or no middle class.