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Where does the government hide UFO Secrets?

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posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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The government are hiding them in a different area, not area 51 because thats too well known, somewhere more secure. I don't know where that is but I want to know.




posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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It just occurred to me that if the government is actually in cahoots with the aliens, as some have suggested, the actual physical data could be stored off world.

Could we perhaps have a secret base on another world?



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Orginally posted by Hal9000
Well I will concede that definitive proof is not in the public domain, that is because it is kept hidden by the government and military. That does not mean that it doesn't exist. If it weren't true, how do you account for all the witnesses’ testimony that it does. Even early government documents show that many believed the UFO phenomenon involved extraterrestrial craft flown by aliens. If I had more time I would provide you with links, but something tells me it wouldn't change your view anyway.

Thanks for the offer Hal, but google works on my computer too. Once again, you are making assumptions about something that you concede does not exist. Ok, so you said it does not exist in the public domain, that the governemnt is hiding all the REAL information. So...you know this how? Oh, right, speculation. Just like all the sightings are speculation. I agree 100% that UFOs are seen everyday. I see something in the sky, I don't know what it is. It could be an airplane, but I don't know. Thus, by definition, it is an Unidentified Flying Object.






Originally posted by speight89
The government are hiding them in a different area, not area 51 because thats too well known, somewhere more secure. I don't know where that is but I want to know.

Nah, no one is doing any speculating.




By the way, what is your take on mermaids? There is a long histrory of sightings. But yet, that elusive, definitive proof has yet to be found. Is this in the mystery government file too? Right next to the file on the Loch Ness?
Bounded by the file on Big Foot? In the drawer below the sea monsters that kept sailors from straying off the coast in the days before Columbus? .............................



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
It just occurred to me that if the government is actually in cahoots with the aliens, as some have suggested, the actual physical data could be stored off world.

Could we perhaps have a secret base on another world?



What?? You've heard of "don't count your chickens before they hatch". Sir, you have a multi-national egg farm going on over there.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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What?? You've heard of "don't count your chickens before they hatch". Sir, you have a multi-national egg farm going on over there.


That's ma'am to you.


Obviously I don't have inside information on where the government stores its secret UFO data, so speculation is the word for this thread. Since we have no conclusive evidence for or against the existence of UFOs, that too is speculation.

When forced to resort to speculation, the field is totally open - like probability in the world of quantum mechanics. Some places are more probable, but any place is possible. Including off world.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
That's ma'am to you.


Obviously I don't have inside information on where the government stores its secret UFO data, so speculation is the word for this thread. Since we have no conclusive evidence for or against the existence of UFOs, that too is speculation.

When forced to resort to speculation, the field is totally open - like probability in the world of quantum mechanics. Some places are more probable, but any place is possible. Including off world.




Umm, no. Quantum mechanics is based on factual evidence. It is testable under controlled situations and enviroments. Tons of data support it. What you are stating has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of factual information whatsoever.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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It is testable under controlled situations and enviroments. Tons of data support it.


The key word here is 'TEST'. If you can't test, what do you really know about what's going on at the quantum level? Nothing. Anything could be anywhere, and you won't know until you test. In fact, until you do test through observation, the object is everywhere at once, and it's only testing that puts it in a fixed location (or state). Remember Shroedinger's Cat, both dead and undead at the same time?

Same with UFO data. Until we can test by looking, we have no idea where it's at and it could be anywhere. Including off world.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
The key word here is 'TEST'. If you can't test, what do you really know about what's going on at the quantum level? Nothing. Anything could be anywhere, and you won't know until you test. In fact, until you do test through observation, the object is everywhere at once, and it's only testing that puts it in a fixed location (or state). Remember Shroedinger's Cat, both dead and undead at the same time?

Same with UFO data. Until we can test by looking, we have no idea where it's at and it could be anywhere. Including off world.



Do you realize the connection you are trying to make? I mean seriously, c'mon. Searching for subatomic particles and conlsuive UFO data....*sigh* I'm glad you have read some on quantum mechanics, more initiative than the average person has, but pure science is just that--science. Statements about UFOs are at best, speculative.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by TruthMagnet
I dunno ask Joseph Gutheinz - he claims he can give you specific locations where evidence of alien coverup is occuring.

The only way to defeat the dark deep black groups is for the UFO community to create their own counter groups.

Its like a Black Hat/White Hat thing - fight fire with fire.

Until then "they are everyone and they are no one. We have survived by hiding from them, by running from them. But they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors. They are holding all the keys, which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them."


[edit on 8-6-2005 by TruthMagnet]


I Remember hearing about one of clinton's aide's tampering with secret files and burning them. I kind of think that they were maybe ufo related or something still important. By the time ufo's do get disclosed finally, they'll be no more info left!



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
Evidently not in it's computers:

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

This guy did L570,000 (I think that's roughly $1 Mil, although I didn't look it up) in hacking, and he didn't find a thing (unless the gov't covered it up).

Where do you think the government is hiding UFO info? How do they keep it quiet? How many people know? Will we ever know the truth?


You're assuming the computers are connected to the internet. Plus, we're talking about the Government. My friend hacked them too, got arrested, the closest he got was past the FBI login.

But, I still HIGHLY doubt that they'de use Windows, Unix, or anything popular. Therefore it'de be near impossible to hack. I too use to have fun, I got caught, not fun.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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If there are ETs coming here, and they wanted respectful public diplomatic relations, they could act that way.

They don't.

Another idea that all the worlds' governments have some kind of massive conspiracy to hide everything despite large rivalries between them is also rather silly.

Whatever disclosure there is, is on the schedule and agenda of ET, not humans.

Government coverup is probably just following around ET in panic, not knowing what to do.

Or worse---ET told the governments, "you better cover US up, or ELSE!"

I can't see any other reason for the reported virulence and paranoia and persistence in the cover-up reports. Even "deep" secrets of a human nature (covert operations etc) eventually come out in pretty full detail after a few decades.

The reason being that ET has a pretty freaking powerful "or ELSE" weapon.

Suppose ETs said, "cover up evidence of our activities, or else we send a 10 km asteroid your way and we then openly enslave the survivors. Here, watch these coordinates for a week. *This time* we'll put the asteroid back in its original orbit. Earth isn't THAT important to US, as our momma said, there's a whole lot of planets in the galaxy. And by the way, here's a holographic movie we took on the last years of a previous planet of moderately intelligent bipeds like you who were getting a little bit too uppity on us. Oh, why are we doing this to you? Think: why does a Tholian hedge-dog lick his balls? Because he can. Toodles."

Would you, as a loyal but naive US Air Force officer (a) approve, (b) disapprove of the government coverup?

Sure, it may be only US government propaganda, but what if it isn't? "oh sorry guys I wanted to expose the UFO coverup, but I thought ETs were just kidding with that asteroid stuff."



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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I want to step out from experience a little in this post so that some of the people that are not use to working in a closed environment or network can understand how they function and the importance of this structure.

As I mentioned in the posts about the fines being suggested for our British hacker looking for alien dust, he would never come upon the data he wanted to find since it is not available on systems that are connected to public networks.

Also, to address some of the interest in the types of computing systems in use: The government uses what ever operating system will run the software they have designed for a particular purpose. Unix in some shops with flavors like VAX VMS or AIX, Windows in others. But not home grown operating systems. The systems or applications that run on these operating systems are very cool and there are plenty of examples that are public record since they were designed by big software companies or experts in specific fields. In other words, a local engineer at los alamos could and would write an application to run in their unix environment that he and a few others could use to run a specific type of energy calculation.

These systems are typically networked for the benefit of the facility or the benefit of similar function facilities that are geographically dispersed. They do not use public networks to move data. What I mean by this is that typical corporate networks get tied together with things like point to point T1 links but they still are carried by companies like Electric Light Wave, Sprint, UUNET, Etc. that share equipment and routes with other public networks and government systems like these only link together through networks that never touch these public routes. I will not divulge the methods of these closed networks since I believe I signed a lot of papers telling me not to talk about that type of stuff.

A good example of a closed system is the Tom Cruise descent into the langly mainframe room in MI. Silly example but very much a closed system.

The main point of all this babble is that you need to be on the inside of these organizations to access these systems. Then you have to have sufficient system privilages to move around through the file systems. That is why the people inside these closed systems are given security clearances upto the level of information that they may come in contact with during their day to day job.

Thus, I would imagine that the UFO Reverse Engineering Labs have a few old mainframes linked together over a private government network and that you have to have one heck of clearance to even logon and read your own daily log.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Do you realize the connection you are trying to make? I mean seriously, c'mon. Searching for subatomic particles and conlsuive UFO data....*sigh* I'm glad you have read some on quantum mechanics, more initiative than the average person has, but pure science is just that--science. Statements about UFOs are at best, speculative.


This reply made me smile. Why? Because almost every theory and proof in science was initially scoffed at as bunk. If you recall, Darwin was pilloried for Evolution. Einstein absolutely REFUSED to believe in quantum mechanics and spent the rest of his life looking for another solution. Einstein's theories themselves were scoffed at by many. The list goes on and on ... The vast majority of 'truth' we accept today started off as a wild, unbelievable theory.

The existence of UFOs is as likely to be true as anything else. Surely you don't think that in a universe as large as ours, we are the only intelligent life?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Ahem. As a working scientist myself I'd have to stand up for mainstream science.

Indeed Darwin was pilloried for evolution, but NOT really from mainstream scientists.

Darwin collected many upon many hard facts and massive and diverse observations that anybody could verify. It took decades for him to do this, but he was right, and biologists with a brain quickly adopted it because it explained so much of the biological world. In fact, virtually nothing in biology makes sense EXCEPT in light of evolution.

Worse, people also take up the pop culture disparagement of Einstein "not believing in quantum mechanics, look how ignorant even smart people can be" meme far too easily.

It's time to really Deny Ignorance here.

In truth, Albert Einstein was one of the critical FOUNDERS of quantum mechanics. He participated in its development from the outset. First, by definitively explaining physical observations and proving the atomic theory of matter. And what about the "photoelectric effect", for which he got the Nobel Prize? No, this wasn't about explaining some obscure solid state phenomenon----it was the reason and way he explained it, to wit,

Albert Einstein invented the photon.

And he also first discovered and calculated the physics and formulae of stimulated emission, the fundamental and intrinsically quantum mechanical phenomenon behind the laser.

Is this somebody who "didn't believe in quantum mechanics?" Of course not. Einstein certainly was impressed and understood the very powerful experimental evidence for QM.

What he objected to specifically, was some elements of the then orthodox "Copenhagen interpretation" as being philosophically untenable and perhaps implying physically wrong effects. Guess what??

Einstein was right!!

Very contemporary quantum mechanics researchers do recognize that in fact the Copenhagen interpretation is pretty much incomprehensible philosophical BS, and are working on things which are much more theoretically sensible (decoherence, e.g.) and
much more like "normal physics".

The specific physical proposals that Einstein made turned out to not be correct and the physical predictions (but not intellectual structure) of Copenhagen were pretty much correct, but the experiments showing this to be the case were not done until after Einstein's death. Of course had he been alive and seen the results of the experiments he would change his proposals. He was a theorist but he was first a physicist who fully recognized the primacy of experiment.

Saying that "Einstein didn't believe in quantum mechanics" is like saying that somebody who works on string theory "doesn't believe in the Standard Model". Yes, they do believe in it---but they think that in truth there is Something More. Personally, I think the Copenhagen Interpretation is a good "rule of thumb" or easy approximation or hack (like Fermi's "golden rules" as effective summaries of a full QM perturbation theory) but shouldn't be considered as truly the best way to describe the fundamental physical law.

I'm not an expert in QM and espeiclaly QM measurement theory at all, but I am a PhD physicist, and I think that Einstein was onto something important. Don't knock Albert. Darwin, Newton and Einstein---the 3 most important people to ever live.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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Darwin didn't make up evolution nor wanted it to become what it became. Stop talking nonsense. He was a priest-in-training, he was just studying how animals adapt to thier new enviroment.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:09 AM
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Is this somebody who "didn't believe in quantum mechanics?" Of course not. Einstein certainly was impressed and understood the very powerful experimental evidence for QM.


I'll let Einstein speak for himself:



The quanta really are a hopeless mess.




I still do not believe that the statistical method of the Quantum Theory is the last word, but for the time being I am alone in my opinion. (Albert Einstein, On Quantum Theory, p125 1936)




You believe in the God who plays dice, and I in complete law and order in a world which objectively exists, and which I, in a wildly speculative way, am trying to capture. I firmly believe, but I hope that someone will discover a more realistic way, or rather a more tangible basis than it has been my lot to find. Even the great initial success of the Quantum Theory does not make me believe in the fundamental dice-game, although I am well aware that our younger colleagues interpret this as a consequence of senility. No doubt the day will come when we will see whose instinctive attitude was the correct one. (Albert Einstein to Max Born, On Quantum Theory, 1944)




Einstein thinks he has a continuous field theory that avoids 'spooky action at a distance', but the calculation difficulties are very great. He is quite convinced that some day a theory that does not depend on probabilities will be found.


WRT Darwin, well heck, he only suppressed the theory himself for about 20 years, and then:



Darwin's and Wallace's papers were read jointly at the Linnean Society on I July 1858 to a resounding silence.


You can read more here:

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Everything Einstein said agrees with my position, because the "popping" of quanta out of nowhere is not made physically precise in the Copenhagen version, unlike the rest of the quantum theory.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 02:05 AM
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I agree with gazrok , to a point , then we split

remember what IKE said , about the military industrial complex ?
well , he helped create a monster, then the monster cloaked itself.
there is NO GOV'T OVERSIGHT AT ALL ! ZERO, ZIP, NADA,ZILCH.

get "disclosure" or borrow it , better yet , get the DVD book combo, you'll be glad you did !

under section titled " testimony that explains the secrecy" ;

" but what happened was that eisenhower got sold out. without him knowing it , he lost control...he realized that the phenomenon or whatever it was we were faced with was not going to be in the best hands..."

it got turned into a quasi govermental agency...[ gets its' own money, on its' own , not thru the treasury or congress, but on the street, thru whatever means necessary ] the gov't looks the other way, for various reasons , professional courtesy and cuz there is no trail to connect the two.

and me ? I agree with patrick heron ; [some these guys/things/aliens are the fallen angels of Bible fame ]

www.worldnetdaily.com...


and I don't wanna know where the stuff is hidden...people who stumble into that info, get " suicided "



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:23 AM
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How does the government keep the aliens secret after all these years?

Well, let's start with how do we keep Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny secret. First, if you believe in them, it is hard not to believe. Sure, kids start to hear stories that they don't exist, but how does that explain all the gifts? Later in life, you hear more propaganda and begin to disbelieve in them. As life goes on, you begin to wonder if they really do exist as a spiritual being or a supernatural being because of other people's attitudes during the season. Can anyone tell me that Santa Claus does not exist, even spiritually?

There have been government people coming out and exposing the truth. Lazar comes to mind. The problem is, no one wants to believe in them or in their reports. And I firmly believe the government is also running a disinformation program on any one that talks, making it harder for disbelievers to agree with anyone that talks. So skeptics continue to be skeptics.

Will there ever be positive evidence that convinces everyone that UFOs and aliens exists? Probably not. How can you convince the skeptics? Pictures and movies can be faked through Photoshop, robots can be remote controlled and look like aliens (???).

I think the big problem is that so much disinformation has been generated by the government that no one knows what to believe any more. The only thing left that we can do is ask ourselves, are we alone in this vast universe and galaxy? Is this the only place that could ever support life forms in all the stars that we see at night?

And if you want to believe there could be life on another planet that revolves around any star that is out there, then you must ask yourselves, is it smarter than us or dumber? Keep in mind, that (supposedly) we still don't understand the gravity that holds us here. We still can't figure out fission energy. We still can't figure out ghosts. We still think the best "Outer Space Plane" is a glider.

Scientists have already found primitive people on the planet Earth and have decided not to expose them to "civilized" life. They have been careful to take pictures but not let themselves be seen. But what if they have been seen and don't know it? Won't these people consider them aliens from another planet?

So what is so hard to believe that aliens have travelled many light years in the matter of minutes to get to Earth and found "primitive people" worth exploring but not exposing to their life style?



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Qwas
Scientists have already found primitive people on the planet Earth and have decided not to expose them to "civilized" life. They have been careful to take pictures but not let themselves be seen. But what if they have been seen and don't know it? Won't these people consider them aliens from another planet?


Hi Qwas, I found the above paragraph of your post especially interesting, do you have any further information on this, any links to articles about it, I'd like to know more, I confess I've never heard about this before, but I'm fascinated!



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