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My Masonic journey begins...

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posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 11:31 PM
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Lexicon of Freemasonry-Albert .G Mackey says:


Cowan: one of the profane,This purely masonic term is derived from the greek
kuon, a dog. In the early ages of the church, when the mysteries of religion were communicated only the initiates under the veil of secrecy, the infedels and upbatized profane were called "dogs", a term probably suggested by such passages of scripture as Matt. VII. VI. ( mathew chapter 7, verse 6). " Give not that wich is holy undo the dogs." And Philip III, "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of te concision."
Hence, as kuon , or dog, ment amount the early fathers one who had not ben initiated into the christian mysteries, the term was borrowed b the Freemasons, and in time corrupted into cowan. The attempt made by some anti-masonic writers to derive the word from the chouans of the french revolution is absurd. The word was in use long before the French Revolution was even meditated. I have in my possession a copy of the edition of Anderson's Constitutions, printed in 1769, which contains at p. 97, this word: "Working Masonsever will have their own wages *** let cowans do as they please."
Another interpretation of this term as a result of later invesigation proves it to be a Stone Mason capable of building only dry walls.




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Cug
FYI, dont get confused by the spelling

קבלה Can be spelled many ways in english

Cabala Kabala Qabala
Cabalah Kabalah Qabalah
Caballa Kaballa Qaballa
Caballah Kaballah Qaballah
Cabbala Kabbala Qabbala
Cabbalah Kabbalah Qabbalah
Cabballa Kabballa Qabballa
Cabballah Kabballah Qabballah

All are proper spellings


*Makes a note* Thanks!



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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I still have those questions. I appreciate the clarification of the linguistics of Kabala and cowan, though there are these that I'm still seeking:

1.) What's a number of the elements?

2.) Also, could anyone explaining moonchild's avatar picture to me? I notice sebatwerk's is similar.

3.) Is Kabala core to Freemasonry?


[edit on 16-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I still have those questions. I appreciate the clarification of the linguistics of Kabala and cowan, though there are these that I'm still seeking:

1.) What's a number of the elements?


I'm not quite sure what you're asking. The ancients held that everything was composed of four elements, mixed in different quantities. These four elements were Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. There was also a belief in a Fifth Element called "aethyr" from which the other derived. Aethyr was seen as a divine substance. The Five Elements, including the spiritual Fifth Element, are represented in geometry by the Pentagram.


o, could anyone explaining moonchild's avatar picture to me? I notice sebatwerk's is similar.


Seb's is a Masonic apron, probably French in origin, as the French always elaborately decorated their aprons with mystic symbols.



.) Is Kabala core to Freemasonry?


I would say, in my own personal opinion, that at least some knowledge of the Qabalah is necessary for the Masonic student in order to fully appreciate Masonic symbolism.


Cug

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I would say, in my own personal opinion, that at least some knowledge of the Qabalah is necessary for the Masonic student in order to fully appreciate Masonic symbolism.


Interesting, I was under the impression that while the symbolism is there, not many Masons really get into it. But that is all from second hand sources. (From the more esotericly bent Masons that pop up in more occultish forums.)



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Cug


Interesting, I was under the impression that while the symbolism is there, not many Masons really get into it. But that is all from second hand sources. (From the more esotericly bent Masons that pop up in more occultish forums.)


The Qabalah isn't mentioned by name in the York Rite, but is seriously dealt with in the Scottish Rite. The Tree of Life makes its first appearance in the 4° of the Scottish Rite ("Secret Master"), and the Candidate receives a lecture on the Three Pillars, and how the Sephiroth are aligned on the Middle Pillar. The most important Qabalistic Degree in the Rite is the 28°, which is called Prince Adept (or Knight of the Sun). In this degree there are two principle officers, Father Adam and Brother Truth. The majority of their Lectures were published by Pike in his Legenda of the 28° (available from Kessinger Publishing in reprint).



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
2.) Also, could anyone explaining moonchild's avatar picture to me? I notice sebatwerk's is similar.


The apron in question is the from 3rd Degree of the Memphis Misraim Rite (to the best of my knowledge), an unrecognized (or clandestine) body that claims to be Masonic.

The image is most interesting because it graces the pages of freemasonrywatch.org... Just coincidence of course...

More on the Memphis Misraim:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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"When a Mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy."

The Lost Keys To Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, published by the Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, 1976, p. 48


Cheers, and for the sake of your soul I hope the doctrines of Masonry remain religiously innocent forbidding your Sage/Elitehood.

I am so picking on freemasons lately, shame on me...



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

o, could anyone explaining moonchild's avatar picture to me? I notice sebatwerk's is similar.


Seb's is a Masonic apron, probably French in origin, as the French always elaborately decorated their aprons with mystic symbols.


Actually, my avatar is a shield of the 3rd degree of Freemasonry, but you are correct in saying that it is french in origin. I actually have one for all 33 degrees. For example, I am now changing mine to the 18th degree shield. Enjoy!

As for moonchild, like Mirthful said, he got his from freemasonrywatch.com, a heavily anti-masonic website. I think the guy just liked my avatar and decided to get his own. Luckily, he doesn't know where to get the great ones that I have.

If any real mason wants to know, just send me a u2u.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. The ancients held that everything was composed of four elements, mixed in different quantities. These four elements were Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. There was also a belief in a Fifth Element called "aethyr" from which the other derived. Aethyr was seen as a divine substance. The Five Elements, including the spiritual Fifth Element, are represented in geometry by the Pentagram.


That's an even more detailed answer than I'd hoped for *takes note*. Thank you Masonic Light as always.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
Seb's is a Masonic apron, probably French in origin, as the French always elaborately decorated their aprons with mystic symbols.


Specifically I was wondering about the sun and moon on pillars and the white skull & rain on the black backdrop. Any addition info certainly appreciated.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
I would say, in my own personal opinion, that at least some knowledge of the Qabalah is necessary for the Masonic student in order to fully appreciate Masonic symbolism.


Alrighty, finally getting somewhere. Much appreciated! Would you say that the symbolism in Masonry is borrowed or originated (aside from the symbol for Masonry itself)? Do you think other belief systems 'stole' them to use for their own purposes that were not originally intended?
Is good and evil subjective or set in stone? Er, I apologize for that last pun...


[edit on 16-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Specifically I was wondering about the sun and moon on pillars and the white skull & rain on the black backdrop. Any addition info certainly appreciated.


The Sun and Moon are two of the Three Lesser Lights of Masonry, the third one being the Master of the Lodge. The significance is that the Sun bestows light during the day, the moon at night, and the Master (at least theoretical) should bestow Masonic light in the Lodge through educating his members in the principles of Masonry. The Pillars represent those that stood at the entrance of the Temple at Jerusalem, which is said by some to represent the Pillars of Severity and Mercy of the Qabalah.

The skull and black drapery covered in tears are emblems of mortality. They are to remind the Mason that life is not permanent. This is an inspiration to make our lives count while we still have the chance through the practice of the virtues, and to shun vice.


Would you say that the symbolism in Masonry is borrowed or originated (aside from the symbol for Masonry itself)? Do you think other belief systems 'stole' them to use for their own purposes that were not originally intended?


Well, the symbols of Masonry are, for lack of a better word, "Masonic". That means the symbols are primarily drawn from a craftsman's trade. The square, level, plumb, compass, rough ashlar, trowel, 24" gauge, common gavel, etc. are all Masonic symbols that originated in the operative craft. Other symbols, such as the All Seeing Eye, the 47th Problem of Euclid, etc., were borrowed from other philosophical systems.


Is good and evil subjective or set in stone?


It would depend on what exactly you were referring to. For example, heat is "good" for coffee, but "evil" for ice cream. But if you refer to morality, I am a Kantian, and believe that morality is absolute. Kant famously expressed the categorical imperative of morality in the following formula: "Always act in such a manner in which you can will the maxim of your action to become a universal law." This formula of ethics is scrutined from all sides in Kant's "Grounding For the Metaphysics of Morals", but, in its simplest sense, is identical to the Golden Rule. If we follow the categorical imperative and Golden Rule, we aren't likely to go too far astray.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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I know, I'm a freekin' sponge for information but I'm truly finding this fascinating and 'stuff is beginning to click'.

Masonic Light:
Why does the sun in your avatar have a face?

Is that a pentagram in the center of the compass?

Is magic in your absolutist perspective, good or evil?

Do certain colors have specific meaning as well or just symbols?


[edit on 16-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Masonic Light:
Why does the sun in your avatar have a face?


I would say because it is representative of the principle of Life, although there is no explanation given for the symbol's face in the 14th degree (where the symbol is found).


Is that a pentagram in the center of the compass?


It is actually a Rose, and prefigures the primary symbol used in the 18th degree, the Rose Croix. The symbol of the 18° can be seen on Seb's avatar.


Is magic in your absolutist perspective, good or evil?


"Magic" is sort of a loaded word. I don't believe in any "supernatural magic" or superstitious practices, as the word now usually denotes. But originally, "Magic" described the science and art of the Magi, and it was not accidental that the King James scholars translated "Magi" as "wise men". True Magic(k) is not supernatural; it is natural, and itself concerns those mysterious forces of Nature, and lead to mystical contemplation. This type of Magick is "good" in the sense that it leads one into awe in regard to the Universe and its Creator.

However, the principles of nature can also be used for evil. Drugs can heal the sick, but can also be used to poison the healthy. The Buddha spoke of Karma, while the Hebrews pointed out that we reap what we sow. If someone unworthy attempts to use those things which are Holy (and what is more Holy than the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God?) for selfish and profane purposes, then he is certain to bring destruction upon his own head.


Do certain colors have specific meaning as well


They can indeed.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I would say because it is representative of the principle of Life, although there is no explanation given for the symbol's face in the 14th degree (where the symbol is found).


So it appears before 14th without, then after with, yes?


Originally posted by Masonic Light
It is actually a Rose, and prefigures the primary symbol used in the 18th degree, the Rose Croix. The symbol of the 18° can be seen on Seb's avatar.


Not be confused with Rosecrucians though? I'm not familiar with any relation between organization if there is any. Just an interesting choice of words/symbols I think.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
"Magic" is sort of a loaded word.


It's also a loaded art, but more on this later I think.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
I don't believe in any "supernatural magic" or superstitious practices, as the word now usually denotes. But originally, "Magic" described the science and art of the Magi, and it was not accidental that the King James scholars translated "Magi" as "wise men". True Magic(k) is not supernatural; it is natural, and itself concerns those mysterious forces of Nature, and lead to mystical contemplation. This type of Magick is "good" in the sense that it leads one into awe in regard to the Universe and its Creator.


And these mysterious forces, that which is natural but not explained, can be tapped into? Also how does one discern natural from supernatural when the phenomena is unexplained?


Originally posted by Masonic Light
However, the principles of nature can also be used for evil. Drugs can heal the sick, but can also be used to poison the healthy. The Buddha spoke of Karma, while the Hebrews pointed out that we reap what we sow. If someone unworthy attempts to use those things which are Holy (and what is more Holy than the Mysteries of the Kingdom of God?) for selfish and profane purposes, then he is certain to bring destruction upon his own head.


True or false: The source of power is not important, only how it is used.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
They can indeed.


Would you be willing to share what significance emerald green has?

I'm truly enjoying this, hope I'm not being annoying.

[edit on 17-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

So it appears before 14th without, then after with, yes?


This particular symbol appears in the 14° only, which is technically styled the Lodge of Perfection.



Not be confused with Rosecrucians though? I'm not familiar with any relation between organization if there is any. Just an interesting choice of words/symbols I think.


In my opinion, it is obvious that the 18° symbolism was directly borrowed from the Rosicrucian system of symbolism, if not directly descended from it. The Masonic Rosicrucian Society of the United States also uses a very similar symbol, that of a red Latin cross surmounted by a rose.




And these mysterious forces, that which is natural but not explained, can be tapped into? Also how does one discern natural from supernatural when the phenomena is unexplained?


To answer your first question, yes. A good example is found in the writings of Eliphas Levi, especially his work "Transcendental Magic". There, he claims that there is a mysterious, occult force in nature that, if harnessed, would change the world. It would allow people on opposite sides of the globe to communicate instantaneously, give the power to heal, and turn night into day.

This mysterious force has since been at least partially harnessed under the name "electricity", and all of Levi's predictions have came true. Even though in Levi's time this force went unexplained, we know that it is a natural force. In like manner, gravity is also a mysterious force that we do not completely understand, but we recognize that it is natural. Interestingly enough, the more one studies quantum physics alongside occultism, the more one sees they basically are saying the same things.


True or
false: The source of power is not important, only how it is used.


The source of all power comes through Nature, which in turn comes from Nature's God. If we abuse those things that God has given us for good, then certainly we must be ready to face the consequences.




Would you be willing to share what significance emerald green has?


I don't mind, but will have to look it up when I get home.



I'm truly enjoying this, hope I'm not being annoying.



Not at all, this is one of the more enjoyable conversations I've had around here in a while.


Cug

posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Masonic Light
True Magic(k) is not supernatural; it is natural, and itself concerns those mysterious forces of Nature, and lead to mystical contemplation.


And these mysterious forces, that which is natural but not explained, can be tapped into? Also how does one discern natural from supernatural when the phenomena is unexplained?


Pardon me for butting in :-)

Magick is more like psychology, or psychotherapy, it uses different terms and techniques, but the result is pretty much the same. The mysterious forces you tap into are the forces of the human mind. If I may, here is a short example.

Say someone is looking for love (The most common request of the spell beggars on occult forums). a real simple magick "spell" would involve burning a red candle and thinking about what you want.

Now the way it works is that person now "knows" that love will come into their life, and knowing this the next time they are out running errands they might pay more attention to what they wear instead of just waring some sweats and flipflops. They are also subconsciously paying more attention to other people and are more likely to notice the natural signs of interest from someone. Then they start talking to someone they might not of talked to normally, they do this a few times and next thing you know they have a date.

Now if you did some work for money, the person might find themselves working harder at their job, and it catches the eye of the boss who ends up giving them a bonus.

Now there is a danger in working with Magick. one of the more common is you can start thinking your better than you really are.. but the biggest danger is you could go quite insane (Think of what an untrained person using psychology, or psychotherapy could do to themselves). But that don't happen very often but you do find the odd err.. odd person hear and there.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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I agree with most of Cug's comments, but want to point out a difference between what he was writing about ("sympathetic magic") and High Magick. The latter is almost a type of Yoga, and its aims are purely spiritual. It is sometimes referred to as "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" after the Abramelin manuscript that was popularized in the Golden Dawn.


Cug

posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I agree with most of Cug's comments, but want to point out a difference between what he was writing about ("sympathetic magic") and High Magick. The latter is almost a type of Yoga, and its aims are purely spiritual. It is sometimes referred to as "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" after the Abramelin manuscript that was popularized in the Golden Dawn.


Well it works the same way if your doing some Enochian, or Goetic, or whatever rituals. The spirits you envoke are parts of the mind. And I believe it's the same when you go for the KCHGA or are uniting with the Divine , but that is up to the individuals personal religious belief if it's your mind or "God"..

I must admit I'm not much for labeling magick when talking about it, high, low, practical, white, black, yellow, grey, etc.. not to mention every type of magick user tends to have their own definitions of the above. IMHO it just ends up confusing people so when talking about it to "normal" people I don't bother with it.

:::EDIT:::

I hope people can understand that.. I have been up all night and my brain is missfiring a bit


[edit on 8/17/2005 by Cug]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
This particular symbol appears in the 14° only, which is technically styled the Lodge of Perfection.


Thanks. I'd be interested in your conclussions if ever you look into why it does.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
In my opinion, it is obvious that the 18° symbolism was directly borrowed from the Rosicrucian system of symbolism, if not directly descended from it. The Masonic Rosicrucian Society of the United States also uses a very similar symbol, that of a red Latin cross surmounted by a rose.


I never knew! Any associations with Knights of Templar, Lyons/Kiwanis/Rotary/Oddfellows, Mensa, Knights of Columbus, Moose, and/or Illuminati? I have doubts that the Illuminati don't exist because their influence seems apparent in the recent publication of books, games, and symbols. Example:






"A card from Steve Jackson's 1995 Illuminati card game foreshadowing the event's of 9/11 by six years."


"A card from Steve Jackson's 1995 Illuminati card game foreshadowing the event's of 9/11 by six years."

I've seen Rosicrusian influences as well though seems more subtle:



Well, subtle to the casual gamer anyway...

The target audience seems to be the sub-culture. Those who don't go out to bars friday nights, worry about their hair and cars, but rather play rpg's, ccg's, read a lot and wander into occult shops. I have my conclussions but it's not completely substaniated.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
To answer your first question, yes. A good example is found in the writings of Eliphas Levi, especially his work "Transcendental Magic". There, he claims that there is a mysterious, occult force in nature that, if harnessed, would change the world. It would allow people on opposite sides of the globe to communicate instantaneously,


Guglielmo Marconi made this dream a reality some 60 years later, so it was on the forefront of what mankind wanted after Franklin made the discover of electricity and development before Levi's time. It doesn't seem like much of a miracle or revelation. Though we have not yet achieved it, I believe we'll travel faster than the speed of light and colonize other planets for the simple fact that we like to travel.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
give the power to heal,


Or the power to cause harm. It seemed what was being eluded to when you questioned the poster their name and financial information in response to their questioning of secrecy, is that the information being kept secret is potentially dangerous. In other words, it's not public "for our own good". Is that an accurate assessment?


Originally posted by Masonic Light
and turn night into day.


Ack! Don't do that, I'm not even used to Daylight Savings Time.



Originally posted by Masonic Light
This mysterious force has since been at least partially harnessed under the name "electricity", and all of Levi's predictions have came true. Even though in Levi's time this force went unexplained, we know that it is a natural force. In like manner, gravity is also a mysterious force that we do not completely understand, but we recognize that it is natural. Interestingly enough, the more one studies quantum physics alongside occultism, the more one sees they basically are saying the same things.


The difference is science is the exploration and understanding of what is known first then utilizing that process whereas occultism is utilizing what works unknowningly without a fundamental explanation of source or process. To me they're two different worlds, but I believe I understand the ideology.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
The source of all power comes through Nature, which in turn comes from Nature's God.


Hmmm...


Originally posted by Masonic Light
If we abuse those things that God has given us for good, then certainly we must be ready to face the consequences.


So what would you say to a dark practioner who utilizes the same power and stakes claim that it's from another source?


Originally posted by Masonic Light
I don't mind, but will have to look it up when I get home.


I'd appreciate it. It may (or may not) answer a question I've had for many years.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
Not at all, this is one of the more enjoyable conversations I've had around here in a while.


Sweet!

One more topical question: What was the relationship between the Masons and the Mormons in building the Navoo Temple? Does that relationship still exist?

[edit on 17-8-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God


Thanks. I'd be interested in your conclussions if ever you look into why it does.


Most of the symbols of the Scottish Rite are limited to one degree. Indeed, this is probably the reason that initiation into the fraternity is divided into degrees, so that each one can concentrate on its own meanings, without rambling.



I never knew! Any associations with Knights of Templar, Lyons/Kiwanis/Rotary/Oddfellows, Mensa, Knights of Columbus, Moose, and/or Illuminati?


Only that most, if not all, all of the above were founded by Masons.

I can't respond to your point about those games because I know absolutely nothing about them. I can only assume that they're a result of people having fun with conspiracy theories.



Guglielmo Marconi made this dream a reality some 60 years later, so it was on the forefront of what mankind wanted after Franklin made the discover of electricity and development before Levi's time. It doesn't seem like much of a miracle or revelation.


I would have to disagree. Levi accurately predicted, for example, global communication which we're using right now, along with many other results. To fully appreciate his contribution, it is of course necessary to read his book, but I think you may be intrigued with what he had to say.



Though we have not yet achieved it, I believe we'll travel faster than the speed of light and colonize other planets for the simple fact that we like to travel.


I personally agree with Einstein, inasmuch as the theory of relativity does not allow anything with mass to break the speed the light. This is because, according to relativity, the closer an object comes to the speed of light, the more mass it acquires, and therefore the more energy it will take to move it faster. By the time the object is almost at light speed, its mass will have become infinite, and therefore the amount of energy required to push it faster will have become infinite.

Nevertheless, Einstein gave us a hypothesis concerning a way to cheat. even though we can't travel at light speed, we don't have to be limited by our primitive way of thinking that space and time are somehow "real", and that they exist somewhere outside of our own minds (and this is also where science meets occult philosophy). According to Einstein's conclusions, instead of there being space between two point, and a period of time taken to travel between them, there is a "space-time continuum", with a variable, unknown factor. Since space and time are in essence illusionary, it would seem possible to warp space-time, thus allowing us to travel the same distance in the same amount of time as if we were traveling at the speed of light, though we were not. This subject is also dealt with by Dr. Stephen Hawking in his excellent science book "A Brief History of Time", one of the first books that I recommend to beginning students of occultism. The subject is too vast to elaborate on here, but perhaps it would be fun to mention that the Starship Enterprise traveled at "warp speed" instead of "light speed".



Or the power to cause harm. It seemed what was being eluded to when you questioned the poster their name and financial information in response to their questioning of secrecy, is that the information being kept secret is potentially dangerous. In other words, it's not public "for our own good". Is that an accurate assessment?


To paraphrase the Apostle Paul, who eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh unto damnation. A good analogy would be fire, another natural force. It can be used for good (warming us in winter and cooking food), or it can be used for evil (the KKK burning down black churches in 1967 Mississippi).

But it would be wrong to assume that me or you or anyone else is keeping a great secret concerning occult knowledge from everybody else. Indeed, the literature on the subject is so vast that it could fill a nation of libraries, and anyone interested in the sacred mysteries need only to have a library card and a disposition toward deep thinking.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
and turn night into day.


Ack! Don't do that, I'm not even used to Daylight Savings Time.




The difference is science is the exploration and understanding of what is known first then utilizing that process whereas occultism is utilizing what works unknowningly without a fundamental explanation of source or process. To me they're two different worlds, but I believe I understand the ideology.


I do not believe the two can be separated, if, indeed, they're not the same thing to begin with. For example, I do not consider the definition of science to be exploring and utilizing what is known. It was not known that the earth revolved around the sun until Copernicus discovered it, nor was it known that two objects of the same shape but different weight would fall at the same rate until Galileo. Science, in my opinion, is the process of discovering the great mysteries of this universe we inhabitat, and this also appears to be the definition of occultism.


Originally posted by Masonic Light
The source of all power comes through Nature, which in turn comes from Nature's God.



So what would you say to a dark practioner who utilizes the same power and stakes claim that it's from another source?


I would say there is only One Source of all things. Even if one literally believed in the devil, and that the devil was somehow powerful or had power, the devil would still have nothing that God, the One Source, did not permit him to have.

But I'm not of the opinion that the devil gives black magicians all sorts of weird, mystical powers. Instead, I refer back to the fire analogy. It is a creation of God in Nature, but is a blind force, and is amoral. One must be taught to handle fire properly, and we do not give fire to children or those with childish minds. Only those responsible should handle fire; otherwise, our houses may burn down. The analogy here with magic is that those who mishandle fire often get caught in the blaze themselves.


One more topical question: What was the relationship between the Masons and the Mormons in building the Navoo Temple? Does that relationship still exist?


Several of the early Mormon leaders, including Smith, were Masons (at least for a short time). A large number of Mormons (including Smith) were given the first three degrees by a Lodge in Navoo. Neighboring Lodges complained about the irregularity of it to the Grand Master of Illinois, prompting the Grand Lodge to expell the Mormon members (apparently, the chief concern was that the Mormons practiced polygamy, which was considered unmasonic).

That is basically the extent of the relationship between Masonry and Mormonism officially. However, when Smith sat down to write the Mormon Temple Ritual, he plagiarized Masonic ritual very heavily.



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