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Western Europe becoming more and more anti-American?

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posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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here we go again


***Attention Mods*** please do not take points away for my short post. Keep in mind I am proving a point. This is about the 1 billionth "Oh no! the world hates America" thread in the last month.

I am getting sick of it, why can't we just be friends.
anyone from Europe remember you got a friend in the USA and no matter what your tabloids say we still love you guys to death.




posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by iksmodnad
here we go again


***Attention Mods*** please do not take points away for my short post. Keep in mind I am proving a point. This is about the 1 billionth "Oh no! the world hates America" thread in the last month.

I am getting sick of it, why can't we just be friends.
anyone from Europe remember you got a friend in the USA and no matter what your tabloids say we still love you guys to death.


I think it began life as a "Those Europeans hate us, why?" thread. It would be nice to be all friends, and yes, it is nothing personal against Americans, but like any friends who have had a fight or a falling out, we have chosen the civil option of discussing our differences and thus find common ground.

The alternative is simply not an option.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy

6) Okay, business-wise of course the US has to look after itself. Our corporations would probably do the same. The only thing that worries the Europeans is how close the military and industry are in the US and how what each does influences the other. We feel this military-industrial complex is one of the most dangerous forces on the planet.

Thoughts and opinions please, let's try and keep it civil, shall we?


You have written a very nice post, doggy. I would agree on a couple of things. When it comes down to it, no matter how we may criticize each other, we would still fight for each other if it came down to it. The English speaking countries share more than just a language.

Even France would come to our aid, as we would for them, if the chips were down. We owe our independence to them. We helped each other in WWI and WWII. We share a history of friendship. No matter what happens, we all have ties to each other that cannot be forgotten.

Even though Germany was once an enemy, we have made lasting friendships there as well. I am sure that they would give aid to us if it were really needed. We would help them out too.

The US and all the European countries are brothers and sisters. Even though we may bicker amongst each other, watch out if anyone starts a fight with any of us. Together as one, we will beat them down severely. I have no doubts about that.

We in the US may get a bit big for our britches, but we always come to our senses when the #e hits the fan.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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***Attention Mods*** please do not take points away for my short post. Keep in mind I am proving a point. This is about the 1 billionth "Oh no! the world hates America" thread in the last month.

You really care about those points.

Wow.

Dude, you're a loser.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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This thread is rather long so i skim read most of it... Sorry.

I am not sure if Western Europe is becoming more anti American but i do feel i have become more anti American.

The reason for this has nothing to do with the average American person, but the American corporate machine.

I feel that our culture is being stripped away by greedy british/american businessmen who are willing to sell out for a quick profit.

20-30 years ago you could visit any town/village in Britain and they all had a unique Britishness about them... Small Butchers shop, bakers, tailors etc... Now this country has become infested with American corporate clones. Any town you visit is no different to the next. Next, Gap, McDonald etc... And all of the small business are being under cut and driven out. Ive heard all the rubbish excuse’s from the business men, involved in these corporate schemes, like... but it will create jobs, it will give the consumer more choice blah blah blah... but at the end of the day Britain survived for a thousand years with out a choice of 2000 different types of trainers and 5 different burger bars in each town. Our towns and city’s are just becoming a haven for consumer greed and self-indulgence.

When you used to go into a shop you would be greeted by the shop owner who had a vested interest in being polite and courteous to the customer. Now we get spotty teenagers on minimum wage, listening to RNB on the shop intercom, who don’t give a flying sh!t about the customer.


Our TV is being bombard with crappy American sit coms, our radios drowned with American Hip-Hop, and our youth have been swallowed into an American urban fantasy of Ghetto life and crime (what particularly makes me laugh is when i see 14yo youths using all their hard man ghetto talk and then going back home to there 3 bedroom semi in time for dinner and Simpson’s HaHa)

I have worked in London most of my adult life for various banks and business and am also fed up with the American culture creeping into the office. We had some US consultants come over and do a speech about how to improve our work life by becoming more "pro-active" and being more of a "go getter" and becoming a "can do" sort of person YEEEEE HA.

Well how about they just "f*ck off" and leave us alone. Britain used to be quit laid back in the work place but now everything has to be done in a "New York minute" Stress levels are up, marriage break ups are up and moral in the work place is down.

The American culture is great for America but this is Britain. I would like to keep our culture, even if other people find our funny little ways a bit eccentric.

Don’t get me wrong... I do not hate the American people, they are some of the most warm hearted, generous and welcoming people i have ever met... But the American corporate machine is just horrid and this worse thing is that now we are trying to model our own business's on this monster.

I, also, can’t help blaming the population of Britain who have allowed this stealth attack upon our culture to take place and the British politicians/business men who have encouraged this change so that they can afford bigger cars.


Oh... not sure if i mentioned im British






[edit on 15-6-2005 by undercoverchef]



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy

Originally posted by iksmodnad
here we go again


***Attention Mods*** please do not take points away for my short post. Keep in mind I am proving a point. This is about the 1 billionth "Oh no! the world hates America" thread in the last month.

I am getting sick of it, why can't we just be friends.
anyone from Europe remember you got a friend in the USA and no matter what your tabloids say we still love you guys to death.


I think it began life as a "Those Europeans hate us, why?" thread. It would be nice to be all friends, and yes, it is nothing personal against Americans, but like any friends who have had a fight or a falling out, we have chosen the civil option of discussing our differences and thus find common ground.

The alternative is simply not an option.


The problem is many people do take it personal and thats were the problems began. If people hate our president let them I don't care. If people hate our life style more power to them. This is not were the problem is the problem is when lies start to spread about us, the type of lies that make people think we are loosing our freedom, we had to make some adjustments (the patriot act) but all that does is give the government the tools they need to efficiently track down terrorist. Which was proven successful just last week when the feds cracked down on a father son alqidia cell operating in California. The truth is that America is still very free, we are not being brainwashed and we are just like any other country on the globe, but we happen to be a target of tabloids because of our forighn policy and steryotypical "world's bully" sign that we have slapped on our back.

[edit on 15-6-2005 by iksmodnad]



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Our towns and city’s are just becoming a haven for consumer greed and self-indulgence.


That makes sense...Complain about American culture that's overtaking your nations. The only reason it's spreading is because Europeans and everyone else keeps buying it.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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Disturbed Deliverer

Maybe if you bothered reading the full post you would have noticed that i go on to blame the British people and politicians as much as i blame the American corporates!!!!

There is no need for you to go on the defence... i clearly state that my post is not an attack on Americans or American culture... it’s an attack against the corporates (who are mainly American companies) that are taking over Britain and forcing American culture onto the British. It is also an attack against the British public for not having the common sense to see what is happening!!!

Please don’t get me wrong... i do like the American culture... i also like the Jamaican culture. Doesn’t mean i want everyone in Britain to grow dreadlocks, smoke herb and have nothing on the radio but reggae!!! (sorry for the blatant stereotype but i need it just to prove a point)


Although the mis-understanding is partly my fault... when i said anti American i should have said anti American corporate's and their aggressive sales policies. For that i apologise.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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There is no need for you to go on the defence... i clearly state that my post is not an attack on Americans or American culture... it’s an attack against the corporates (who are mainly American companies) that are taking over Britain and forcing American culture onto the British. It is also an attack against the British public for not having the common sense to see what is happening!!!


That's the thing. No one is forcing anything on you, or your people. If you aren't happy with what's happening, it's entirely the fault of the British people.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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That's the thing. No one is forcing anything on you, or your people. If you aren't happy with what's happening, it's entirely the fault of the British people.


This could make an intersting discussion on a seperate thread. Who is responsible, the advertiser or the consumer? Of course the consumer is the one who spends the money or takes up the fashion. However, when someone or some corporate entity encourages you into an irresponsible lifestyle, are they responsible for your future actions?

This, I feel has nothing to do with the original discussion. To blame America for the youth of the world's fashion choices is wrong. Every generation thinks the next generation step over the mark.

The issue, I feel is that American culture is becoming all consuming. Now, there is nothing wrong with American culture, but neither is there anything wrong with say, Irish culture. I would be upset if someone said that Irish pubs, which are becoming very popular all around the world, were the reason for all the woes in the world. As DD said, if you don't like it don't buy it. Other people do however.

The issue of less well promoted cultures being lost under the crush of international fashion trends, etc. is a very valid one. Europe has a wide and varied hue. We are made up of very different people, langauges and culture. To all become the same clone culture would be tragic.

I think, however, there is a trend away from the "American" culture. Especially in Asia. It's not a bad thing, it doesn't mean we hate the Americans, it just means we fancy a change. Jeans and burgers are sweeeet but saris and thai green curry rock the Kaspa as well!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
That's the thing. No one is forcing anything on you, or your people. If you aren't happy with what's happening, it's entirely the fault of the British people.


Not entirely true! In the face of multi-national corporates local culture doesn't stand a chance. See any economic textbook

America Inc is the ultimate multi-national. It's all self-perpetuating. When the films promote the burger chains & microsoft, and they then support the films and the coke/pepsi-sponsored advertainment TV it's amazing we've still got our accents!
Much of US products' success is down to this overwhelming weight of media, how else do you get people to drink Bud?

There's talk of having school 'proms' here now - for f@ck's sake!!!!



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Not entirely true! In the face of multi-national corporates local culture doesn't stand a chance. See any economic textbook


Not true at all. If people care more about their own culture, or some small business, they'll choose that over the big business, even if that means paying more. It's all decided by the consumer.


This, I feel has nothing to do with the original discussion. To blame America for the youth of the world's fashion choices is wrong. Every generation thinks the next generation step over the mark.


It has everything to do with the problem, because it goes to the core of Europe's bad blood. Europe as a continent has been dominated in economics, politics, culture and military by America.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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It has everything to do with the problem, because it goes to the core of Europe's bad blood. Europe as a continent has been dominated in economics, politics, culture and military by America.


This again goes back to an earlier point made that one of the main reasons for Anti-American sentiment is that Europe is somehow jealous of America.

Now, I am afraid I am going to have to burst that particular bubble for our American friends. Europeans are quite happy just where they are. Just because we adopt the parts of your culture that we like, doesn't mean we are in any dominated by it.

If we talk about economics, it is true that Europeans resent the incroachment of Globalism and it's American Corporate roots. The cloning of towns and cities across the world by corporations is reaching a saturation point I feel. I can see McDonalds and the like dying off within 20 or so years.

Having said that, economics could be a moot point if the US economy implodes through either a switch to Euros for oil, or the incredible military spending. The US position is not on very firm ground.

If we talk about politics, then we are talking about the main sticking point between Europe and the US. But only on a global level and only as far as how Europe disagrees with the US on foreign policy. To say Europe is dominated by US politics is actually quite naive and vain.

Take this example. On one hand, the European Governments supporting the current Iraqi adventure were met with fierce public opposition, yet they were for the most part all re-elected? This only serves to illustrate how little influence America has on European politics.

If we talk about culture, it is true that Hollywood movies are very popular. However Europe has it's own burdgeoning film industry and it is worthy to point out that the shows that dominate European television sets are overwhelmingly home grown.

On the music side, the blessing of P2P networks and piracy has spelt the end for the bloated American corporate music industry. No claims to culture can be made here. It is an industry and the day the final manufactured pop group falls off the bottom of the charts, is the day the whole world (the US included) will celebrate not having to endure that pap anymore.

In other elements of culture I feel it is vain for the US to claim dominance in any field. Stars of stage, art, opera, sculpting, ballet, dance, traditional music and performance arts are not exclusive to any one country and can be found most everywhere.

Finally, we can talk about this supposed military dominance the US has over Europe. I have seen this topic beaten to death on other threads and have no wish to start a "Our military can beat your military" discussion here, as we have no historical precedent, so any opinions on the matter would be coming solely from people's clenched rectums.

However, I feel it necessary to point out the silliness of there being any dominance of the US over Europe militarily with two points.

1. Europe has a collection of modern and well equipped armies. The US has never taken on a proper army since WWII. Of all the small countries it has taken on since WWII, a number of them have defeated the US.

2. The hammer being proud of it's crushing ability forgets that strength comes from the arm wielding it. When the US hammer becomes blunt and broken, the muscle of the World Banks will pick a new hammer.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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Now, I am afraid I am going to have to burst that particular bubble for our American friends. Europeans are quite happy just where they are. Just because we adopt the parts of your culture that we like, doesn't mean we are in any dominated by it.


You claim you aren't dominated by it, but many others in this topic have claimed exactly that.


If we talk about economics, it is true that Europeans resent the incroachment of Globalism and it's American Corporate roots. The cloning of towns and cities across the world by corporations is reaching a saturation point I feel. I can see McDonalds and the like dying off within 20 or so years.


Wishful thinking, as much of what you claim about the future seems to be. Sorry, but you're not going to see America get humbled by Europe within your lifetime.


Having said that, economics could be a moot point if the US economy implodes through either a switch to Euros for oil, or the incredible military spending. The US position is not on very firm ground.


Switching to the Euro at this point seems highly unlikely. It was starting to slide back down even before the whole constitution fiasco. It just keeps dropping now. Second, our military spending is less per capita then what many nations in Europe spend. Most of Europe, and the EU as a whole, have a larger debt than America. The entire EU (which includes a number of undeveloped nations which tend to grow at high paces) only sees half the raw GDP growth America does. At the same time, the top economies in Europe are crumbling.


Take this example. On one hand, the European Governments supporting the current Iraqi adventure were met with fierce public opposition, yet they were for the most part all re-elected? This only serves to illustrate how little influence America has on European politics.


Who has been re-elected that opposed the war? Schroeder and Chirac have yet to run, and both have a slim chance of being re-elected. On the other hand, everyone who has supported the Iraq war has been re-elected. More pro-American governments are coming into power in Europe in spite of how the people feel.


On the music side, the blessing of P2P networks and piracy has spelt the end for the bloated American corporate music industry. No claims to culture can be made here. It is an industry and the day the final manufactured pop group falls off the bottom of the charts, is the day the whole world (the US included) will celebrate not having to endure that pap anymore.


P2P had nothing to do with this. They were slipping sales before that. And no one else has, or will rise up to take their place in the near future. No one is even competing with them still.


In other elements of culture I feel it is vain for the US to claim dominance in any field. Stars of stage, art, opera, sculpting, ballet, dance, traditional music and performance arts are not exclusive to any one country and can be found most everywhere.


When it comes to the mainstream, it is American dominated.


1. Europe has a collection of modern and well equipped armies. The US has never taken on a proper army since WWII. Of all the small countries it has taken on since WWII, a number of them have defeated the US.


No nation has actually manged to defeat the American military. The Vietnamese never won a battle. America had some 20:1 kill ratio in our favor. The Vietcong have a long history of fightin guerilla wars and repulsing large invaders. Considering how long America stayed, and how limited our troops were, our military performed amazingly well. The reasons for our loss were purely political.

You also have to remember how those Vietcong had over 20 years of experience under their belts, and had already beaten the French. The Vietcong even had superior or near equal equipment in some cases, such as the AK-47. They were well trained, and experienced troops who really don't get enough credit.

North Vietnam's militia would manage to inflict massive casualties to even the Chinese just a few years later while outnumbered and outgunned, and fighting in the open field for a few weeks. These weren't the experienced soldiers who fought agains America, either. I'll make it as clear as possible. These were conscripts.

Iraq had one of the largest armies in the world, as well as top of the line Russian material, and Europe would have been unable to deal with Saddam. Europe lacks the simple logistical capability to deploy the kinds of forces America can. It would take Europe years to put as many men into the Gulf as America did in months. Not to mention the fact that such one-sided kill figures are unheard of in all of history. We crushed an army of some 500,000 men, with well over 4,000 tanks and artillery pieces in a few hours.

In the Korean War, we kicked the Chinese around, and were getting close to breaking them in spite of being drastically outnumbered and under-equipped from the start. The only reason for Chinese success was that they launched a surprise attack. We still drove the Chinese back to the original borders, and were prepared to launch a massive offensive that had a pretty good chance of breaking the Chinese defenders.

America has enjoyed at least a 10:1 kill ratio in every war we've fought since WW2.

On the other hand, Europe has fought just about no body. Their only major experience has been as America's sidekick, and the UK's little battle with Argentina, in which they took heavier casualties than one would expect. The European forces have also taken heavier casualties in places like Kosovo, in spite of the fact that Americans flew the vast majority of sorties.

When it comes to facing America in the open field, there is no equal. No one at this time can beat us in a conventional war. No major power should be able to beat us at all if history shows anything. The only thing that has limited the American war machine in the past 60 years have been politics. It goes back to WW2 and beyond.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 02:07 AM
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You claim you aren't dominated by it, but many others in this topic have claimed exactly that.


Yeah, they were Americans also as far as I remember.

I have figured it out. The bad blood doesn't come from an American dominance of economics, politics, culture and military as you claim, but from the arrogance of the Americans who think they do!!!

If we could get you down from your tree and stop you beating your chest for 5 minutes we might actually achieve something.



Sorry, but you're not going to see America get humbled by Europe within your lifetime.


Interesting how I was talking about McDonalds and you equated it with America. Very Freudian a slip there!!! LOL!

I feel America will be humbled, but I grant it won't be Europe who will do it. No doubt you will come to us hat in hand at that point and look for help and we will have the print outs of these discussion threads for plenty of salt for your wounds.


Take this example.......

Who has been re-elected that opposed the war?..... everyone who has supported the Iraq war has been re-elected. More pro-American governments are coming into power in Europe in spite of how the people feel.



I'm begining to doubt your reading comprehension abilities. Isn't that what I said!?! They are getting re-elected despite the stigma of being Pro-American, which proves how little influence the US has!!!!


In other elements of culture.......

When it comes to the mainstream, it is American dominated.



In America perhaps. Outside of America, mention American Culture and Jerry Springer, WWF and Monster Truck Racing spring to mind. Oh, how you have expanded our collective cultural conciousness!! Bless you USA!!



No nation has actually manged to defeat the American military.


I knew this would get you down out of your tree and beating your chest!!! LOL!! I was debating whether to add it in at the end. Thank you, I won 5 euros in a bet!

While you were beating your chest the sudden rush of blood to your head may have caused you to faint, thus glossing over the 2nd point I made, quite convienantly too, I might add!

Your military might is on lease, subject to terms and conditions.

In Europe we prefer to spend money on education and health care as oppossed to misery, ignorance and death.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by undercoverchef
I feel that our culture is being stripped away by greedy british/american businessmen who are willing to sell out for a quick profit. ..............
Our TV is being bombard with crappy American sit coms, our radios drowned with American Hip-Hop, and our youth have been swallowed into an American urban fantasy of Ghetto life and crime (...........
Britain used to be quit laid back in the work place but now everything has to be done in a "New York minute" Stress levels are up, marriage break ups are up and moral in the work place is down. ......................
The American culture is great for America but this is Britain. I would like to keep our culture, even if other people find our funny little ways a bit eccentric...........

undercoverchef
I think I can understand your point but let me also compare your situation with another one.
When the British first landed in America they were met with open landscapes and grassy plains. The native Indians who lived on this land were used to countless herds of buffalo and the vast fertile plains but this was all changed when the colonists came and set up their town; they cleared the woods to make cabins, captured/killed all the wild life and replaced them with other animals that were not native to America at all.
All this must have surprised the native Indians undoubtedly and was met with furious opposition, yet the winds of change blew all the hostilities away.
They might have felt the same way you feel and they might have cursed all these European colonists for coming and desecrating their land. So this is nothing new and has happened to every nation in the world and will continue to happen. That is change

The 'Americanization' as you would call it is just mere corpratization as our culture'. What these corporations have done is basically taken American culture, customs and their 'product' and packaged it into this new form of persuasive advertising. No one in America truly believes that what they show on TV is American culture. True American culture is in the small town and cities that have not been swamped with degenerate media.
The problem is this is seen to be America and American culture, because this is what gets the greatest ratings and are most popular.
This cultural 'stripping' would not/cannot happen unless the majority of British see it as acceptable. For example in Japan even though they are extremely modern they still follow their oriental traditions and have merged it with their modern culture and it has now become a way of life for them.
Same goes of the paranoid French who are ever wary of a sudden 'coup de main' by American culture.
In the end, I could say that America in itself is a brand!.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
This again goes back to an earlier point made that one of the main reasons for Anti-American sentiment is that Europe is somehow jealous of America.

Your cynical remarks itself prove this point!!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
If we talk about economics, it is true that Europeans resent the encroachment* of Globalisation* and it's American Corporate roots. The cloning of towns and cities across the world by corporations is reaching a saturation point I feel.

corrected for spelling
Actually Globalization has its roots in Europe and America is just expanding what you started off to begin with. When British goods were sold in all its colonies and local production capacity was undermined is one of the first few examples of globalization!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
I can see McDonalds and the like dying off within 20 or so years.

Tough luck with that! with around 40,000 outlets world wide it ain't going to disappear any time soon!! also with the third world developing like China and india they have still huge untapped markets!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Having said that, economics could be a moot point if the US economy implodes through either a switch to Euros for oil, or the incredible military spending. The US position is not on very firm ground.

Granted we are going through a rough patch but its nothing we haven't gone through before and the last time we fought a world war just after we recovered! About switching to the Europe thetas just absurd, American banks and so do most economic institutions in the world find the dollar to the best currency to deal in. You can go to even the remotes part of the world and use dollars with Euros its not the case, the US dollar is a symbol of economic America and unless we go Sudan's way we aren't going to make any switches. More likely due to the Euro's limited appeal the EU might want to use the US dollar as a standard to maintain its currency reserves!!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
the European Governments supporting the current Iraqi adventure were met with fierce public opposition, yet they were for the most part all re-elected? This only serves to illustrate how little influence America has on European politics.

It could also be that Europeans know in their heart of hearts that what America is doing is the right thing for global security and they understand American compulsions. Of course they could be a few people who feel differently but they are definitely in the minority as the elections attest.
Culturally and in day to day affairs I agree with you that America doesn't play much of a role but politically I think America's actions influence Europe far more than Europe's actions influence America!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
If we talk about culture, it is true that Hollywood movies are very popular. However Europe has it's own burdgeoning film industry and it is worthy to point out that the shows that dominate European television sets are overwhelmingly home grown.

Obviously GErmans will watch german programs and so on but the English content available is mostly American sitcoms and hollywood! This is a fact! British television has mostly its own soap operas but the blocklbusters are all American as British Film industry does not have the economic muscle that Hollywood has !! If you don't believe me just count the latest ticket sales for the latest Star Wars movie and compare that with any British Movie!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
On the music side, the blessing of P2P networks and piracy has spelt the end for the bloated American corporate music industry. No claims to culture can be made here.

It is true that the music industry is loosing millions thanks to P2P but music artist are actually becoming richer? Its not the big artists who are suffering its the record companies and they are tying up with major corporations like BMG tied up with Sony to make CD's cheaper and also if mere copying of songs could break the music industry then the radio and the Tape recorder would have finished them off! But no, they'll just diversify and grow again!
Also most of the big music artists move to the US as America provides better facilities.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
However, I feel it necessary to point out the silliness of there being any dominance of the US over Europe militarily with two points.
1. Europe has a collection of modern and well equipped armies.

American dominance in anything can be questioned except its military! It is a fact that almost all the Western European countries are members of NATO and almost all of their military capability has been achieved through America's guidance through NATO. All these NATo countries furthermore use American Cold War era weapons. Europeans countries of the soviet block use old soviet cold war era weapons. The European military situation is like a large group of war chiefs who's band of men were trained and equipped with American Weapons. Everybody from Germany to Britain is equipped with AMerican weapons!
Also even though Europe has 'modern' armies they don't have even 1/4th the manufacturing capability that America has, so for every weapon they lose they pay nearly double! Asian militaries of Russia, China and India maybe even Israel are more than a match for any European military, so there goes the 'well equipped' and as for modern the European defense budget is smaller than China's and with greater Asian cooperation they have stepped out of the cold war era tech, so most Europeans armies are almost even with third world nations.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
The US has never taken on a proper army since W.W.II. Of all the small countries it has taken on since W.W.II, a number of them have defeated the US.

Again Wrong!

Do you remember the USSR? Wasn't it a " proper army" >? Or is Europe now stronger than the USSR was?
America matched step for step the military might of the USSR and also was involved in many hostile skirmishes which could have lead to the end of the world easily. The US action in Korea was a success, the US action in Iraq was/is a success and US action against Libya was a success so was every major conflict that America fought after ww2.
In Vietnam the war was called off due to domestic pressure and not our military inadequacy, we could have nuked Vietnam and it would have been over !!

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
2. The hammer being proud of it's crushing ability forgets that strength comes from the arm wielding it. When the US hammer becomes blunt and broken, the muscle of the World Banks will pick a new hammer.

Firstly, spare us the histrionics and secondly it is we who finance the world bank and not the other way around! It is our money that they lend, which they lend to others! So calling us mercenaries is not a very wise way of saying Europe's military is competent! Nor does it speak highly of you/your nation for maligning the US military which has fought valiantly to save a lot of European lives in WW II.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 05:41 AM
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Always with the "We saved your backsides in WWII" arguement! What's the point of constantly flogging this horse over and over again? Europeans tend to have nothing but respect for the brave young Americans who fought and died in Europe against Hitler's armies, and the French in particular show a great deal of appreciation and hospitality to veterans when they visit.

Claiming that someone owes you a debt of gratitude for the actions of a previous generation merely belittles the cause that those men fought and died for and makes the claimant appear nothing more than a dwarf standing on the shoulders of giants.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge

Claiming that someone owes you a debt of gratitude for the actions of a previous generation merely belittles the cause that those men fought and died for and makes the claimant appear nothing more than a dwarf standing on the shoulders of giants.

IT IS NOT ABOUT ME THAT THE SENTENCE REFERS TO BUT TO THE US ARMY!!
Comprende??
The US army deserves that gratitude and you owe it to them not to me, I have withstood many snide remarks and am still here! I don't care about personal insults-they are petty, compared to what some Europeans are trying to do!
What was the cause they fought for? Do you know? They fought for the dignity of human life! They fought for all those who couldn't fight for themselves and all those who were being oppressed, not because they would receive your gratitude !!
The knowledge that most of you Europeans would see better days was cause enough for those great souls!!
But that doesn't mean you should show no respect for them, and accuse the USArmy of being some renegade mercenary.


[edit on 16-6-2005 by IAF101]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
I feel America will be humbled, but I grant it won't be Europe who will do it. No doubt you will come to us hat in hand at that point and look for help and we will have the print outs of these discussion threads for plenty of salt for your wounds.

Ah! Your ultimate dream, the vision of what happened to you lot happening to us! You know its things like that make us disregard Europe more and more everyday as a place lost in the past!
As for the USA getting humbled that is a distant dream and surely will remain a dream for a long long time. We wont go Europes way no! we are not going to come crashing down when some deviant in germany and his thugs bully us.

More over such statements only make us want to strive to be better so that no one may reach our lofty heights!





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