Western Europe becoming more and more anti-American?

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posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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Greece has the highest anti-americanism in Europe. There are quite a few important reasons about it:

1) the dictatorship of 1967-1974 which was backed up by the CIA.
2) the invasion of Turks and the constant occupation of north Cyprus for 31 years.
3) the recognition of Skopjia as 'Macedonia'. USA allows a country to steal the identity of another country.

Aren't those serious reasons to hate America? (of course we live in a totally American way, but that's another story).

PS. I forgot to tell about Jews: Zionism has a great grip on USA. In 99% of movies, it is either the director or executive producers of Jew origin. By controlling what you see and hear, they can suceed in their plan of dominating the world (and when their Messiah arrives, he will be a true world leader). American movies keep repeating the same stereotypes. There is at least one gay in every movie who goes around cheering stuff, the black guy who is always playing 2nd role (with few exceptions) always dies at the end, etc.


[edit on 12-6-2005 by masterp]

PS2: Americans are not even Christians, according to the orthodox dogma. They are actually fooled by Zionism into being born-again christians.

(disclaimer: the above does not reflect my opinions).


[edit on 12-6-2005 by masterp]




posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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The people of Greece may feel that way, but your government doesn't seem to. America has rather important bases in Greece, don't we? You have been a supporter of the Iraq War, as well.


1) the dictatorship of 1967-1974 which was backed up by the CIA.
2) the invasion of Turks and the constant occupation of north Cyprus for 31 years.
3) the recognition of Skopjia as 'Macedonia'. USA allows a country to steal the identity of another country.


1-I have to admit I'm ignorant on this subject. I'd like to see more information, and proof of your claims.
2-Just because Turkey is an ally, that makes it all America's fault?
3-I think Greece is pretty petty about this. I may not know much about the current state of affairs in Greece, but I do know ancient history. It seems to me the Greeks are the ones trying to lie to people here. Macedonians were barely considered Greek to begin with. It seems modern Greeks are more interested in having the glory of guys like Alexander the Great. Macedonia does in fact fall on the land of ancient Macedonia, and I don't think the people have changed any more then the people of Greece have.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The people of Greece may feel that way, but your government doesn't seem to. America has rather important bases in Greece, don't we? You have been a supporter of the Iraq War, as well.


That's right. Officially, we are supporters of the Iraq invasion. But over 90% of people are actually against.

We can not do otherwise, because are blackmailed by USA, through Turkey.


1) the dictatorship of 1967-1974 which was backed up by the CIA.

1-I have to admit I'm ignorant on this subject. I'd like to see more information, and proof of your claims.


Link: [url www.anagnosis.gr...]http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?pageID=226&la=eng[/url]



2) the invasion of Turks and the constant occupation of north Cyprus for 31 years.

2-Just because Turkey is an ally, that makes it all America's fault?


You let it happen. You knew all along that Turks were going to invade, and you let it happen.

Why don't you do something now? Cyprus is 90% Greek. Why don't you fight Turks off Cyprus?



3) the recognition of Skopjia as 'Macedonia'. USA allows a country to steal the identity of another country.



Macedonians were barely considered Greek to begin with.


1. Alexander the Great called himself 'the King of all Greeks' when he conquered Athens.

2. All Macedonian names and words are greek. Alexander, for example, comes from two words: Alex(=long) and Andras(=man).

Macedonia does in fact fall on the land of ancient Macedonia, and I don't think the people have changed any more then the people of Greece have.

You are misinformed. Right now the northen Macedonian area is inhabited by Slavians, who arrived at the area at around 1100 AD. Before WWII, there was no 'macedonian' nation. It was Tito that established the "Macedonian" state because he had in mind to expand his country to the Agean sea.

There was a meeting of the world's leaders after WWII where Tito spoke of the issue of Macedonia. And It was the american president that said "what are you talking about? for centuries Macedonia is Greek". If I find the link, I will post it.

Right now America wants to have many small states in the Balcans, in order to fulfil its various political agentas.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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Look, I don't want to enter a fight on who's wrong and who's right. All that I wanted to say is that there are valid reasons for being anti-american.

Personally, I am anti-american-policy to the extend that I am anti-imperialist. Other than that, I live in a completely american way, eat american food, watch american sports (NBA) and american movies, by clothing is american and my occupation is computers (pioneered in America, of course). I live by the dream of space exploration, pioneered by NASA, and a great big house like the one I see in American movies. And I speak English all day in the internet.

I can tell you this is the exact same situation with 90% of other Europeans, so don't fall in their trap. Even French live a life that's 95% similar to USA and to our life.

PS: forgot to tell that I listen to rap music. How much more american can I get? :-)


[edit on 12-6-2005 by masterp]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
IAF101, in what parallel universe do you live in??

I live in a universe where I see my nation being criticized by a group of deadbeat nations that in the first place do not have the moral or ethical right to criticize our actions with such perfidious pasts of their own. Talk about irony!!

Originally posted by paperclip
Do you seriously think that goverments of today are motivated by some altruistic greater good like bringing freedom to world full of tyranny??

I don't speak for Europe but for America! I believe that American leaders (all of them!) have taken office with the best of intentions but the results of their actions has led to wide gaps in perception.


Originally posted by paperclip
In fact, YOU are the one sterotyping here.

Not true, I am merely postulating. I think from what I have written earlier it is self-evident that those are my observations and are subject to change.

Originally posted by paperclip
The world pretty much worshipped Americans at the end of the 90s. Cinton brought PEACE, END of war, in Bosnia, he brought peace to Israel/Palestine, he talked with Iran, China, he signed INTERNATIONAL treaties... list goes on and on.

Oh yes! and all the while Osama Bin Laden was plotting 9/11 for the love of America!!

Worshipped?? that is a very strong word for what was actually going on. We have two very different ideas of worship. All the terrorism we face now is due to the apathy of the Clinton Administration, his personal weakness had prevented him in dealing with Osama effectively and nip the problem of Al qaeda in the bud. But no he allowed these hate groups to fester and now we have to contend with the enormity of the problem. You and your fellow Europeans might have been carried away with his suave Don Juan diplomacy but he in actuality did nothing substantial. I am sure Bush would have been about the same had America not been jolted out of its sweet reverie to look the demon in its eyes.


Originally posted by paperclip
The real world is a world much much more complicated, full of nuances, shades, and more then 6 billion people, all individuals, living in over 200 nations with over a dozen different political systems, religions, leaders, parties, wars, treaties, aliances, problems, economies, systems.

There is no simplified world of absolute good vs. absolute evil.

All very true but it is not by indifference and panache alone that we can fend off all our problems for some later day, we have to tackle the problem now and proactively engage the world into making a forceful stand -its better late than never, apathy will take us nowhere but lead us straight to the grave; in this case literally. A stand has to be made, if not for much better atleast for not much worse.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by masterp

That's right. Officially, we are supporters of the Iraq invasion. But over 90% of people are actually against.

OH! That excuse, I get it, even though you ALL hate us you somhow elect (by accident ofcourse!)somebody who supports us? FACINATING!!

Originally posted by masterp
We can not do otherwise, because are blackmailed by USA, through Turkey.

How is that ?? USA blackmails Greece through Turkey, for what ? Its not like you guys have the largest resources or the largest military in the region and also with Germany so close by their is no absolute need of greek support frankly speaking.

Originally posted by masterp
Why don't you do something now? Cyprus is 90% Greek. Why don't you fight Turks off Cyprus?

Why should we?? More than 90% of you hate us [ According to you!! ] anyway. What difference will it make if cyprus is greek or turkish if you are going to hate America anyway?? We don't owe you any favours.

Originally posted by masterp
Right now America wants to have many small states in the Balcans, in order to fulfil its various political agentas.

Why? So we can have the privilege of having to contend with more of the petty problems that plague that region? So that the everyday American can give more in taxes to be used to police Europe’s back alleys?
This is just ridiculous, your claims are ridiculous and so is your attitude.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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He didn't say 90% hated you.

He said 90% are against the war.

Remove the anger and hate from out of your eyes and read.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee

Your mastery of the english language amazes me.

Is this what they call " European condesention" or is it flattery?


Originally posted by Chris McGee
Attacking nations diplomatically and globally has brought about global stability then?

Yes definitely, our tommorow is more safer now than it would have been. We are now atleast aware of the threat and are working towards its end.


Originally posted by Chris McGee
At least you're not steroetyping anyway, oh no, wait:

Obviously you have difficulty with language and I understand that some people are challenged but you should have made a greater effort to comprehend before you resorted to your infantile juxtaposing.



Originally posted by Chris McGee

I want to quote a part of the speech that Bush gave after 9/11;


" Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done. "

So they've captured OBL then? How has justice been done? Words, nothing more.

You have miserably FAILED yet AGAIN in comprehending what I mean, excuse me if I was tend to assume that all readers are equally able to comprehend my point but I had no notion of the magnitude of your disability.
The underlined words in the above passage (Bush's speech!!) are meant to demonstrate/illustrate the fact that America was "awakened"/ " called" into its present course of action and this present stance by America is not some pre-meditated coup d'etat that most consipiracists will have you believe. This is the sole intention of quoting Bush's speech nothing more and nothing else.
[ Understand!? Nothing to do with OBL]



Originally posted by Chris McGee
......
Corrections highlighted in bold. .......
............

I have read your whole post and acknowledge your strangely depressing attempt at humor however juvenile it may be but it does show many things that are distinctively European and why Europe will be nothing more than a first world ghetto.
Basically it reflects your decadent nature, you cheap antics of characterizing every thing yet providing no real solutions yourself, of sitting on the wall and spitting on both sides, of trying to choose all the sides, of misguided grandiose. It shows European nature- overbearing, supercilious, condescending, indecisive and the overall decrepitude of society. Europe’s equianimus nature will lead to its own undoing.


[edit on 12-6-2005 by IAF101]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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The war against Iraq is being staffed by paid personnel. Recruiting is not spread evenly for the whole population, as it would be in a Republic. The situation in America looks like a fascist state, where corporations are used to carry out objectives without any possibility of democratic control or feedback. This is why the Americans are isolated from the consequences of the war.

But they are not innocent, because they could do much more to end the war, and instead prefer to talk about it. Plus, regardless of how much they disagree, they will be the ones reaping the benefits of the war.

Something is very wrong with Amercica today, and the Americans don't realize it.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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That's right. Officially, we are supporters of the Iraq invasion. But over 90% of people are actually against.

We can not do otherwise, because are blackmailed by USA, through Turkey.


Greece is still our official ally. If the people are so anti-American, I'd suggest a possible change in governments.


You let it happen. You knew all along that Turks were going to invade, and you let it happen.

Why don't you do something now? Cyprus is 90% Greek. Why don't you fight Turks off Cyprus?


Why is it America's job to keep the Turks out of Cyprus (not that we haven't)? The Turks do have a legitimate claim to it. You say you're against American imperialism, but you seem to only be against it when it isn't in your nations best interests. That's just hypocracy.


1. Alexander the Great called himself 'the King of all Greeks' when he conquered Athens.


I don't recall Alexander the Great conqueroring Athens, but calling himself King of all Greeks hardly means he considered himself Greece. Are you really going to argue the fact that the more civillized Greek city states considered Macedonians backwards barbarians? If you consider Macedon purely Greek, then where exactly does it stop? The barbarians tribes farther North could be considered Greek. Italy could be considered Greek. Sicily could be considered Greek. Even the Turks themselves are about as much Greek if you look at history. It basically extends throughout the entire Mediterranean world.

Your ancestors barely considered the Macedonians Greek. You only want to do so today because of their great achievements.


You are misinformed. Right now the northen Macedonian area is inhabited by Slavians, who arrived at the area at around 1100 AD. Before WWII, there was no 'macedonian' nation. It was Tito that established the "Macedonian" state because he had in mind to expand his country to the Agean sea.


And what, the Greeks are still pure of blood? No slavic influence? No Turkish blood?


Right now America wants to have many small states in the Balcans, in order to fulfil its various political agentas.


I'm so tired of hearing how America wants to keep this or that people weak and divided. How about people stop looking at America as the cause of all their problems...


Other than that, I live in a completely american way, eat american food, watch american sports (NBA) and american movies, by clothing is american and my occupation is computers (pioneered in America, of course). I live by the dream of space exploration, pioneered by NASA, and a great big house like the one I see in American movies. And I speak English all day in the internet.


The problem is, you only like America when its convenient. You have no problem taking the good things we offer, but won't tolerate any of the bad. America is always expected to compromise, and out of all the nations in the world, America is the only one who does not actually have to compromise with anyone.


The war against Iraq is being staffed by paid personnel. Recruiting is not spread evenly for the whole population, as it would be in a Republic. The situation in America looks like a fascist state, where corporations are used to carry out objectives without any possibility of democratic control or feedback. This is why the Americans are isolated from the consequences of the war.


First, where are people making the connection between fascism and corporations? You do realize that fascism is basically just militaristic socialism, right? It's more left wing then it is right wing, no matter how much people try and revise history.

And sorry, but the percentage of casualties are about equal to the population. Only 10% of all our casualties have been blacks. And your statement about a Republic needing a military with people from all areas is just dumb. Every Western nation who has a professional military is made up of the same groups of people as the American one. What, do you think the rich in the UK are just dying to send their kids off to fight when they don't have to?


Something is very wrong with Amercica today, and the Americans don't realize it.


Yes, the Americans are all blind. None of us realize what's best for our country. Only you wise Europeans, who have been slaughtering each other for the past 1,500 years, and colonizing the world know what's good for us..



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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Some food for thought on both sides.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
- Arthur Schopenhauer.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependancy; from dependency back into bondage.
- Alexander Tyler




Those that forget the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.
- George Santayana




[edit on 12-6-2005 by Passer By]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
First, where are people making the connection between fascism and corporations? You do realize that fascism is basically just militaristic socialism, right? It's more left wing then it is right wing, no matter how much people try and revise history.

As someone pointed out, fascism is corporatism. The corporations are endowed with state power, especially in the borderlands of the Empire. As such, the US military functions like a corporation within the state. They are more or less independent, but they take orders. They have a huge budget, they do risk analysis to see if their "investment" is worth, etc.



And sorry, but the percentage of casualties are about equal to the population. Only 10% of all our casualties have been blacks. And your statement about a Republic needing a military with people from all areas is just dumb. Every Western nation who has a professional military is made up of the same groups of people as the American one. What, do you think the rich in the UK are just dying to send their kids off to fight when they don't have to?

Who said anything about ethnical divisions? The war in Iraq is being carried out by a mix of volunteers and paid corporations. Where is the american people in all this? Nowhere. Even when the soldiers are wounded and return home, you can see clearly the treatment they get: they are marginalized, dismissed, they are treated as second-class citizens.
The war against Iraq is not a war of the American people, it is a war determined by economic calculation on the part of the corporations that rule your country.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependancy; from dependency back into bondage.
- Alexander Tyler


I think those numbers are wrong. Rome lasted for a thousand years. Greece about 500. The golden ages of most civillizations, such as those in China, were longer then 200.


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Nice way to take that out of context. He's trying to sell fascism in favor of capitalism. It's the same kind of argument socialists would use in America.

Fascism isn't a merger of state and corporate power, it's the government becoming a corporate power, and creating monopolies through force.


Who said anything about ethnical divisions? The war in Iraq is being carried out by a mix of volunteers and paid corporations. Where is the american people in all this? Nowhere. Even when the soldiers are wounded and return home, you can see clearly the treatment they get: they are marginalized, dismissed, they are treated as second-class citizens.


The American people are the volunteers. Only someone who doesn't have family in the military could say the things you do. Just because YOU are detached from reality doesn't mean other Americans are.


The war against Iraq is not a war of the American people, it is a war determined by economic calculation on the part of the corporations that rule your country.


America people pay for the war in money and lives. They supported the war when it started. This is a war of the American people. ANY war started by a true Republic is a war of the people.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Eyes, but do not see, ears, but do not hear. This must be your mantra.

Grow, and wake, up my man. You are a cheap piano and are being played.

Lets look at this from another side shall we, What would it take for you to beleive that this is wrong? Is there anything in your mind that would cause you to re-think this so called war?

If lies, deception, and murder is not enough. If genocide, ignoring the geneva convention and the untold slaughter of god knows how many truly innocent lives is not enough. If the deaths of soilders sworn to DEFEND the country dying in a war, built on lies is not enoug - what is?

Anything?



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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I think a better question would be why have Americans become so Anti-European?

For a war you need an enemy to focus on. The enemy of the War on Terror, the ubiquitous terrorist is so ephemeral as to not really engage the rage or hate needed to sustain such a campaign. The public needs someone visible to focus their hate on. And OBL is so yesterday....

In the true tradition of Hollywood, the heroic Americans are going it alone. Like a bad cop movie, the main protagonist plays by his own rules and ignores the advice of his corrupt peers to get the job done. This illusion sustains the public fantasy while G.I. Joe Soap does his job protecting the corporations as they fall like locusts on one country after another.

So America needs an external focus of hate and Europe is it. You wonder why Europeans are turning against you? The thing is we're not! We are just trying to keep afloat in the rising flood waters of hypocrisy and vitriolic patriotism spewing forth from your news networks and internet trolls.

However, one day, Fox News is going to report about how much Europe hates you. On that day, for a change, they will be reporting the truth. I would hate to see that happen, but you reap what you sow.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Grow, and wake, up my man. You are a cheap piano and are being played


You know, the fact that you've been unable to address anything I've said only proves my point. You spout all the rhetoric you want, and that doesn't make you right. You have to give proof of what you say, not just talk with a sense of moral superiority. Until you do that, what you say is meaningless.


If lies, deception, and murder is not enough. If genocide, ignoring the geneva convention and the untold slaughter of god knows how many truly innocent lives is not enough. If the deaths of soilders sworn to DEFEND the country dying in a war, built on lies is not enoug - what is?


Murder and genocide? What exactly are you describing? Where is there genocide going on because of America? Anyone who has taken a serious look at miliary history would see just how carefully America has conducted this war so as to avoid high civillian death tolls. Whether or not you agree with the war is irrelevent here. Calling what we're doing over there murder and genocide is just plain ignorant.

And who cares what the explanation given for the war was if it achieves a greater good in the end? You can talk about lies and deception all you want, but it means nothing as long as the Iraqi people and American people gain from this war.

I suppose it would have been more just to simply leave a guy like Saddam in power, though. Or better yet, wait until he passed the torch to one of his son's, who are arguably more insane then he was...

Which soluation kills more people in the end? Saddam massacred hundreds of thousands of people, and would have kept doing so if he wasn't removed. Not to mention the torture, and complete oppression of the Iraqi people.

As long as America improves the way the Iraqis live, this war is hardly meaningless.


For a war you need an enemy to focus on. The enemy of the War on Terror, the ubiquitous terrorist is so ephemeral as to not really engage the rage or hate needed to sustain such a campaign. The public needs someone visible to focus their hate on. And OBL is so yesterday....


Um, bull? Most Americans don't give a damn about Europeans. The closest thing to a new hate for Europe has been directed at France, and it's been relatively small. If Chirac came to visit the states, he wouldn't be met with thousands upon thousands of protesters calling him a murderer, in spite of the fact that he supports genocide in the Sudan, and his nation played a large role in Rwanda.


So America needs an external focus of hate and Europe is it. You wonder why Europeans are turning against you? The thing is we're not! We are just trying to keep afloat in the rising flood waters of hypocrisy and vitriolic patriotism spewing forth from your news networks and internet trolls.


Most American media outlets barely touch international news. The idea that they're directing some great propaganda campaign against the Europeans is absurd. They rarely get a mention. On the other hand, one can go to just about any European news site and find that most of their headline stories are about America, or have a mention of America.

Take a look at this forum. How many are ever about things Europeans are doing? If I open up current events, they are pretty much all topics talking about corruption in America.

So, where exactly is all of this anti-European sentiment? I'd love to see it.


However, one day, Fox News is going to report about how much Europe hates you. On that day, for a change, they will be reporting the truth. I would hate to see that happen, but you reap what you sow.


Yea, that's great. Bash Fox News. Fox has never been caught doing the things the BBC has, like sending hecklers into conservative political rallies. I love the professional attitude, as well. I mean, crying with the death of Arrafat...

Not to mention the countless studies on the media that have shown that Fox News is far closer to the center in their coverage then most other media outlets in America. I'll take a slight conservative slant over a major liberal slant any day of the week.

But you keep up the rhetoric. Fox News, Bush and America are wrong no matter what they're doing. They're all evil, crooked liars...



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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You have a hard time answering questions don't you. I have given proof but you will blame people being anti-US, because of Oil, yet Canad ahad no such claim and yet we were oppossed to it as well. Really just because Bush changes stories mid stream doesn't mean you can. The world wasn't, and isn't against the US, it is your actions since then.

I have answered everything, now please, without the usual double speak - What would it take hypothetically for you to change your concept of the War.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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I think the only one who has a problem answering questions is you. You've never answered ANY of my questions.


Really just because Bush changes stories mid stream doesn't mean you can.


If one actually paid attention to Bush's speeches before the invasion, he always stated freeing the Iraqi people as a reason. No ones story has changed.



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Um, bull? Most Americans don't give a damn about Europeans. The closest thing to a new hate for Europe has been directed at France, and it's been relatively small.



Or about anyone else for that matter. If it was just a case of you lot keeping to yourselves over there, no problem. Only you have a nasty habit of inflicting yourselves on the rest of the world.

What did France do to you in recent times except disagree with your desire for pushing through an unjust war/pillaging exhibition??




If Chirac came to visit the states, he wouldn't be met with thousands upon thousands of protesters calling him a murderer.



True enough. So why do you think Bush is met with such hatred around the world? I suppose that is Chirac's fault?




Most American media outlets barely touch international news. The idea that they're directing some great propaganda campaign against the Europeans is absurd. They rarely get a mention.



First off I wouldn't say any great anto-european propaganda is in effect. More like a mis-direction of the public's focus. The fact that American media doesn't touch international news as you say, is a cause of great worry for the rest of us.

How can you possibly expect the public to have a fair and balanced view when the only international news portrays the rest of the world in a negative light? I am sure if anything about the rest of the world makes the evening news in the US it will be anti-american sentiment.




On the other hand, one can go to just about any European news site and find that most of their headline stories are about America, or have a mention of America.



I just flicked through some of the major news websites to make sure, but America wasn't very high in the headlines anywhere. There are other things going on in the world, so get down off your high horse.

Though, if you did have some more international news you might actually know there are more important things going on in the world. Except your news networks don't care. Why do you think that is?




So, where exactly is all of this anti-European sentiment? I'd love to see it.



Do a search for "tulipwalkers" on ATS and count the threads....As you already said, you'd love to see all the anti-European sentiment but as you also said your news networks don't bother with international news, so that's just too bad. If the US wasn't so insular as a country things might be different!




Fox has never been caught doing the things the BBC has, like sending hecklers into conservative political rallies.



I'd like to read more about that, got any links? Sounds interesting.




I love the professional attitude, as well. I mean, crying with the death of Arrafat...



Yes, Fox News, the epitomy of professional broadcast news.




Not to mention the countless studies on the media that have shown that Fox News is far closer to the center in their coverage then most other media outlets in America. I'll take a slight conservative slant over a major liberal slant any day of the week.



The "countless" studies of course carried out by Fox no doubt. Or some other totally unbiased source.




But you keep up the rhetoric. Fox News, Bush and America are wrong no matter what they're doing. They're all evil, crooked liars...



And you keep up the counter rhetoric and we all go round and round and never achieve anything. I am not going to argue with you about the media - they are all biased, BBC not withstanding. I am not going to argue with you about Bush. All politicians, american, european, whatever are crooks and by job definition are liars. Evil, of course, is a matter of perspective.

What I will argue with you is that America is wrong by not opening their eyes and ears and comprehending what the rest of the world is trying to tell you. And for that we are bashed as liberal, cowardly, tulip-walking, cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

To paraphrase Mark Twain, if one man calls you a mule, ignore him, but if two men call you a mule, maybe it is time to buy a saddle!

Edited to replace the word blanked out by the censors with the word "mule" as the original word was mistaken as a reference to someone's posterior.

[edit on 12-6-2005 by howmuchisthedoggy]



posted on Jun, 12 2005 @ 10:52 PM
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Or about anyone else for that matter. If it was just a case of you lot keeping to yourselves over there, no problem. Only you have a nasty habit of inflicting yourselves on the rest of the world.


Did America force any nation to join us? They all came out of their own free will. If people in those nations don't like that, tell them to take responsibility and elect a government that won't do it again.


What did France do to you in recent times except disagree with your desire for pushing through an unjust war/pillaging exhibition??


1-France had been undermining everything America has done with Iraq throughout the 90's. They continued to sell weapons to Iraq, they bought oil from Iraq, their officials excepted gifts from Saddam, and they actively pushed to get sanctions lifted from Iraq.

2-France has attempted (and thankfully failed for the time being) to lift the weapons embargo on China.

3-France opposed America's attempts to act against Sudan; a nation they happen to buy oil and sell weapons to.

4-They've supported genocide in Rwanda. They armed and trained the militia that carried it out. Their troops sat back and watched as it happened. They allowed, and maybe even aided in their escape, and may even be protecting some still.

5-Chirac has openly critiscised America's AIDs policy, while at the same time they give less aid than us, and have now proposed an international tax on the matter.

6-While on a visit to China, Chirac openly stated that it is up to China and Europe to oppose not only American policy in the world, but also the spread of American culture.

And all of that is recent. Although, I view most French policy in the past 40 or so years to be simply about opposing America in the world. Out of all the nations in the world, I think France is the one that has the least reason to act against America. It seems to be inspired by nothing but jealousy.


True enough. So why do you think Bush is met with such hatred around the world? I suppose that is Chirac's fault?


Bush is met with such hatred in Western Europe (I refuse to say that's how the world feels) because we are the easy target. Europe has numerous problems of their own that only continue to grow, and politicians like Chirac have only added to them. It becomes easier for people in Western Europe to look for someone else to blame, and their politicians haven't exactly helped matters here.

It's no coincidence that most foreign media outlets spend most of their time talking about American politics instead of their own. Even Passer By in another topic stated that they sometimes get distracted by national events (which in Canada's case, could only really mean American politics) and often times ignore their own problems.


First off I wouldn't say any great anto-european propaganda is in effect. More like a mis-direction of the public's focus. The fact that American media doesn't touch international news as you say, is a cause of great worry for the rest of us.


Yet you stated that America's government/media were using hatred of Europe to distract the people of America...


How can you possibly expect the public to have a fair and balanced view when the only international news portrays the rest of the world in a negative light? I am sure if anything about the rest of the world makes the evening news in the US it will be anti-american sentiment.


How can Europe expect to have a fair and balanced view when their media outlets spend most of their time talking about America, and pretty much always the bad things with America?

Very little is talked about international views in America at all, except for how much division there is between it, and it's mostly passed off purely because of Bush's policy. Most of it does not have the spin that these people are opposing us, by that Bush and America are wrong.

And Europe is often times held up on some sort of pedestal to Americans by our media (along with Canada). We have a liberal press here in America whether you know it or not, and whether people are willing to admit it or not. They would like nothing better then for us to become more like Europe and Canada.


I just flicked through some of the major news websites to make sure, but America wasn't very high in the headlines anywhere. There are other things going on in the world, so get down off your high horse


Really? On the BBC right now, some of the top stories are:
-Iraqi police discover 20 bodies
-Freed journalist back in France
-Five charged over Afghan kidnap
-Painful past: Mississippi braces for trial over 1964 killing of civil rights workers
-'Freedom fries' congressman has change of heart

The only three stories really above these are bombs going off in Iran because they are about to have an election, a vote in Italy, and the results of another series of elections in Lebanon.


Though, if you did have some more international news you might actually know there are more important things going on in the world. Except your news networks don't care. Why do you think that is?


America is a nation that cares little about what goes on in the rest of the world. The people of this nation still largely would prefer to not intervene or bother with world politics.

Quite frankly, that's a good thing.


Do a search for "tulipwalkers" on ATS and count the threads....As you already said, you'd love to see all the anti-European sentiment but as you also said your news networks don't bother with international news, so that's just too bad. If the US wasn't so insular as a country things might be different!


Our media reports the important international news. We report the same stuff European news outletts report when they aren't talking about American politics (which is usually about as national as European coverage gets) or their own internal affairs.

And the majority of threads on this forum are not about European problems. How many topics are actually started to rant and rave about what Europe does in the world?


I'd like to read more about that, got any links? Sounds interesting.


www.theage.com.au...


Yes, Fox News, the epitomy of professional broadcast news.


More rhetoric with nothing to back it up...Have any examples of Fox News bias?


The "countless" studies of course carried out by Fox no doubt. Or some other totally unbiased source.


Hardly. Studies done by the likes of Yale and Stanford. Numerous poles done over the past thirty years show about a 4:1 difference between the number of liberal journalists to conservative.


I am not going to argue with you about Bush. All politicians, american, european, whatever are crooks and by job definition are liars. Evil, of course, is a matter of perspective.


Then how about you people start giving the same treatment to European politicians who commit wrongs?


What I will argue with you is that America is wrong by not opening their eyes and ears and comprehending what the rest of the world is trying to tell you. And for that we are bashed as liberal, cowardly, tulip-walking, cheese-eating surrender monkeys.


What about the nations in the world that agree with us? Why are they ignored? Could it be simply because they tend to be poorer Eastern European countries, or those in Asia, or those in Africa?

It's amazing that the poorer nations seem to prefer America over Europe.





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