Originally posted by Passer By
[...] there is some historical evidense of it happening in the past hasn't there? One nation sacrifacing their own people to get a more valuable need/want?
Originally posted by finnman68
I am not sure so maybe I am wrong, but there is some historical evidense of it happening in the past hasn't there? One nation sacrifacing their own people to get a more valuable need/want?
Are you saying that america has done something like this in the past. I've never heard any such thing that an american has done to his own country men and women. so what are trying to say that about?
[edit on 8-6-2005 by finnman68]
Originally posted by deltaboy
If it becomes law, the measure also would bar other conspicuous religious symbols, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses. The commission spent six months studying the issue and held 120 hearings
Originally posted by CTID56092
Yes we are undoubtably becoming more anti-american.
It's many things (Kyoto, spy bases, cultural and military imperialism, starbucks, globalisation, contempt for the UN, the ICC, your interference in EU affairs, your arrogant view of your right to dominate the world and beyond - Galileo etc, GM crops, starbucks (again) etc etc.)
Originally posted by CTID56092
your arrogant view of your right to dominate the world and beyond.. ...
Originally posted by CTID56092
When your friends get concerned about you it's normally a sign that something's wrong.
The problem as I see it is people across the world especially Europeans, have stereotyped America and Americans.
This maybe due to insouciant American policy through out the 80's and 90's but this attitude has only has only help breed global insecurity and instability
Originally posted by IAF101
The problem as I see it is people across the world especially Europeans, have stereotyped America and Americans. This maybe due to insouciant American policy through out the 80's and 90's but this attitude has only has only help breed global insecurity and instability.
but this attitude has only has only help breed global insecurity
The problem as I see it is people across the world especially Europeans, have stereotyped America and Americans
Europeans are of the attitude that Americans are endemically hedonistic and that we will continue with our self-indulgence onto eternity. They feel that our arrogance stems from our wealth and our military might but they do not understand that we began as modest children of a peaceful nation and we still are!
we began as modest children of a peaceful nation and we still are!
I want to quote a part of the speech that Bush gave after 9/11;
" Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done. "
We didn't want to act like the way we do now, we don't want to spend billions on policing the world, we don't want to put our friends & family in harms way in places like IRAQ and we certainly don't want to live in fear.
But these are not our choices but the card fate has dealt to us and we must play our hand.
We defended our corporations right to make money from death and misery, our belief in cold hard cash is absolute and our commitment towards money will not waver in the face of criticism.
Europeans such as yourself believe that what America is doing now is autocratic and arrogant but who will bring together the Freedom loving nations of the world and form a coalition to tackle this menace that is terrorism?
THE EU?? Not Likely!! The EU is basically a neo-colonial plutocratic institution and its pull is merely economic, more over the EU is incapable of uniting even its members on something so basic as a constitution.
How can we even begin to imagine on in the world that can possibly bring about a meaningful coalition against the world and that would be the USA
we have a right to ensure the safety of our people and ALSO a duty to the world to answer the call of freedom, from people plagued with tyranny.
It is just as easy to criticize and demonize the good intentions of a nation with purpose as it is to selectively marginalise and malign its leaders.
The main reason for this is because not all Americans are true to their nation, the liberals and democrats still long for the yester years in America where the White house had transformed into something the world respected
They lend support to the 'dysfunctional disgruntled' of the world in spreading a smear campaign against America and its leader. They unknowingly degrade themselves in this endeavor to garner the 'rebel vote'.
What has OUR insouciance brought us?
Can your nation step up and clean the mess the world is in today and ensure an end to terrorism? The answer is NO!
Therefore as the world’s only super power it is our right and duty to promote security and safety in the world, it is our duty to ensure that the greater cause of freedom is always served. Even though most might see this as unilateral but sidelining the UN is the best thing to happen in our recent times as the blame lies squarely on Kofi Anann and his ad hoc directorship.
Do not preach to us about arrogance and world domination
it was not the USA that was hell bent on subjugating over half the world's populace to meet some petty need of self glorification for a better part of the last millenium.
Your concern is unwarranted since what you are concerned about is an individual and individuals change ideals dont!!
I would like to close by qutoing President Harry S Truman ;
"Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive."
originally posted by Ghandi
An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind
A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave
Originally posted by finnman68
You made the whole point of this post. It just shows that Western Europeans are becoming more anti-American, and what proof do you have that the US government or citizens funded the IRA?
Let me put the record straight , I'm talking for myself and not for Europe but I'm afraid Americans are seen as warmongering thick people thats only vote for idiots like George Bush. If you elected someone with a brain we might think better of you . We don't hate you only your Government.
As for me making the whole point of the post, it's all in your head. Extremists are searching around for someone to project their insecurites onto. We've had NK, Iran, France, China and now the whole of western europe. You may need an enemy in your sights at all times but most people in the world do not think that way.
Sure, we disagree with a lot of the foreign policies of the current US administration but that doesn't make us 'anti-US'. In the same vein, a US citizen who disagrees with government policy is not 'anti-US' or a US hater. Try and find a clear separation between yourself and your government. People disagreeing with govt policy is normal and healthy and good.
The world pretty much worshipped Americans at the end of the 90s. Cinton brought PEACE, END of war, in Bosnia, he brought peace to Israel/Palestine, he talked with Iran, China, he signed INTERNATIONAL treaties... list goes on and on. The american policy of the 90s is the reason you had the WHOLE world unite with you after 9/11 in the fight against terror, including most islamic countries. There was and still is a world wide coalition to fight war on terror, the actual war on terror... remember? Al-Qaeda? bin Laden? That terror.
Disturbed, seriously when a large part of the free world thinks one way - and the US government thinks another - what are the chances that all are corrupted or just one? Obviously just one is easier than many right? Logic. If that one, has huge ties to oil, and big business, and has in the past shown himself to lie and be decietfull doesn't that only magnify the logical problem you pointing forth?
All the worlds porblems are not caused by the US, and on Sept 12, the entire world was with America bar none. The continued refusal to realize it has been what America has done since that has caused these feelings - and those actions that caused these feelings, more and more look like a lie. Yet there is still defence for this. I don't get it.
As for the American Charity - they are generally loans. When you use your Visa is that Charity? No, because you have to pay it back. Same thing with muxh of what the US seems to want to call Charity. Not that that in itself is wrong. If a country is in trouble and needs cash and you lend them the cash it doens't make you evil. When you call it charity, it makes you a lier though.
Well Disturbed we can always agree to disagree but the facts are that Western Europe, Canada and the like have been shoulder brothers with teh US UNTIL they went into Iraq. Why? Despite claims that it is people are "anti-US", it was because we saw there was no reason to go. The reasons were lies, and those that knew they were lies told you(The American people), The media claimed it was because we were Anti-US, but anyone who looked at history knows this present gap in beleif's started exactly when America invaded Iraq.
So where is the problem? Because America when into Iraq. Not anti-US, not Anti-Democracy, or anti-freedom or anything else. It is because you guys are acting like bullies. That is it.
As for what people in Estern Europe and Africa feel about Western Europe in relation to America - Well, Africa is understandle Western Europe, the white culture in general, has been horrible to Africa and really needs to help out there. How, when and why are all major problems agreed. However, how they feel about one group of oppressors over another is somewhat irrelevent.
I'll tell you a more telling opinion though. How about Bin Ladin's? I bet he likes America more than Western Europe. He has hated and was an enemy of Saddam forever, now that Saddam is gone they have a big opening. How about that opinion, and still more relevent than anyone in Africa right?
America never attempted genocide? You really don't want me to show you that do you? The complete decimation of most of the plains indians, does that ring any bells?
Charity is nice, if there is string then there is no charity and if you can find one time that any nation did that - good on ya, because that just doesn't seem to be in any governments interest.
My points still stand. The world was with you until Iraq. Claims can be made that it is because of being anti this or that, but the facts are it happened right when America invade Iraq - all the rest is just to try and draw the American peoles attention from the HUGE clusterf#$k that Bush has gotten you into and the lies behind it. You can't impeach him while you are dutifully trying to defend actions you own commander in Cheif has lied to you about. I love American patriotism, I really wish Canada had more of it, however sometimes it plays against you guys IMO.
Well, if you want to look at a per capita, Canada did send quite a few to Afganni, in fact still quite a few troops there now. However, you are still missing the point, Afganni, whether there were alot of troops or a few, the world was with you. In Iraq it wasn't. There is no amount of playing with idea's or confusing the issue that will change that.
As for whether it was right or wrong in Kosovo, that was determined by the UN, and agreed apun by the court. I didn't agree with it, however, when people decide to have a rule of law, it is imparitive that you go with the rule of law even when you have a personal problem with it. America could have chose toopt out I beleive as it is every countries right to do so. In the end, the UN agreed and the US agreed and that is that.. In Iraq, the UN said no, most of your friends said no. The US said yes because of this information, and now that information has turned out to be flase, and worse, your president lied about it. Once again, no amount id distractions, or confusing the isse will change that.
There is an old Irish saying I beleive that goes "Those that push you into mud are not neccesarily your enemy, and those that help you out of of mud are not neccesarily your friends". What that always ment to me is that the world is more complex than most are aware, and what things look like on the surface are seldom the truth. This "Anti-US" drivel is just another smoke screen to hide the underlying problems. It is easier to say someone is just anti-US, to dismiss them, rather than having to take that hard look in the mirror.
How do you know what anyone else can give? Heck, we hardly even have a military in the typical sense of the world, we generally have more strike force and special opp's - BOTH went AFAIK.
As for why don't we discuss our(Canadian) problems, well, it might have to do with the topic of the thread no?
AS for Western European genecide? To which one are you refering, and once again what is this topic? See! You can't help yourself. Forced to try and deflect the question at hand.
Really childish IMO. Once again - On Sept 12 the world was with you. Now it isn't. It isn't because of any "Anti-US" feeling, it is because the US did something many felt were wrong(and history has shown they were right), then by passed the entire system, started a war, killed innocent people for what? Lies.
Either way they will be solved either by some other nation conquering the US and thus ending a dream for many, or the people within the US will smarten up and fix the problem internally. I think that is what most want to see happen, but as long as the public allows these facists to bully them, this will continue to happen until people, either inside your country or out, rebel. That will be a sad day and probably the begining of the end to this social experiiment.
Disturbed, if I was to call American's stupid I wouldn't waste my time with you. However, it has been clear that while you acknowledge there isn't a place about the topics you brought - that only means, to you, that we are picking on the poor American's. Crazy how the ego's run rampent when they aren't getting their way.
Once again - Sept 12th we were all with you. I am sorry if other nations don't share your urge for massive military and the trillons of debt already(Our social programs already give us enough debt thank you).
Well, I am sorry - but clearly whether it is good enough or not - the fact remains we are there and others as well.
In fact most coutnries from what I remember agreed at first until the illegal invasion of Iraq. Once again - nothing you have said or can say will ever change that and nothing else or any deflections will erase the lies your president told you that sent so many American kid's to their death needlessly.
As for any warnings, well, at one point in time I used to see our social safety net much like a giant chain around each Canadian's neck - still do to a degree. However, I will take our moderate capitalism/socialism that helps all over your facist regime anyday - not that this is even a comparision. Both countries, IMO, are great or have the potential to be great. Remember we don't have to fear them, nor you. It is America that is acting like the coward, and that truly pains me to say. Only a coward attacks those unable to defend themselfs, and then claim it is for freedom. Sad when people can simply use a word and have that trick people.
Please don't take it as me, or anyone, calling you or any American stupid or dumb. I think it is fairly well accepted that the Americans that don't have a grip on the situation are that way primarily because the news they get is filtered. Although there are many on both sides, however it takes more work sifting through the media garbage and hype, and most AMerican's(and Canadian s for that matter), sadly, can't be bothered so they just parrott the mantra from the corperate media.
You try to deflect it or rationalize by saying others have done it before, so bother them.
Because it was wrong, it was illegal, there was no proof of WMD's, everyone felt/knew/suspected it. The changes in party line afterward eventually leading to Saddam is a bad man so he had to go only underlines how weak the rational for invading Iraq - a soverign nation - was and that Bush and Co got away with it, and continue to get away with it while stripping the average American of his/her consitutional rights, really does say something about the people that elected him.
If you don't agree I am sorry, but until you can explain why the world suddenly started to be Anti-US right as they invaded Iraq, but have nothing to do with Iraq, this is game, set and match. If you can then I am all ears. But I don't think you can.