Western Europe becoming more and more anti-American?

should remember that the French hated the Americans long time ago, a few years ago some Frenchie called America a hyperpower. this shows how much hate there is even if America was not at war.

Originally posted by deltaboy
should remember that the French hated the Americans long time ago, a few years ago some Frenchie called America a hyperpower. this shows how much hate there is even if America was not at war.

Since when did the views of "some frenchie" accurately represent the views of 60 milliion people?

The French don't hate you, at least the majority do not anyway. Like most people accross the world though, they view the aggresive foreign policy of a large and powerful nation's government with caution and suspicion.

Originally posted by Paul

The French don't hate you, at least the majority do not anyway. Like most people accross the world though, they view the aggresive foreign policy of a large and powerful nation's government with caution and suspicion.

www.uncommonknowledge.org...

Peter Robinson: Give us the Revolutionary period. What was the friction during the pre-Revolutionary and Revolutionary period?

John Miller: Well, before the Revolution, there was a long period of the French and Indian wars, of course, so named because the French and Indians were the enemies of the American colonists of the time. And it was during this period when the first articulations of American national consciousness come into being because Americans are perceiving the French Empire as an external threat. And they're beginning not to view themselves as Virginians or colonists in Massachusetts but as Americans with a common bond.

Peter Robinson: Bob, even before this country was a country, the French were behaving badly toward us. French and Indian War is trying to kick us out of the continent.

Robert Paxton: Well, the French and Indian Wars are--it takes two to make a war and we were trying to kick them out of the continent. And actually we succeeded and they've mostly failed. They hung on in Quebec but the French and Indian Wars, the French had their Indians and we had our Indians. And there were some rather ugly stories on both sides. And the ugliest story of all which I read about as a schoolboy in Longfellow's Evangeline when the British cleared the French out of Nova Scotia. I just read a review of a new book by a man named Faragher, I believe, who says that 10,000 mostly women and children died in that ethnic cleansing of exposure and starvation which is the Acadians who got to Louisiana and became the Cajuns. So it was a dirty war on both sides and we won.

Peter Robinson: As we discuss the history of Franco-American relations, on to another low moment.

Title: Un-Civil Conduct

Peter Robinson: We now go to the Civil War. The French supported the secession of South. Why?

John Miller: It's true. Napoléon III was the Emperor of France at the time. He was the nephew of the Napoléon Bonaparte, the one we all know very well. And he had a lot of visions about the French empire and what he could do with it in the New World. Like many people in Europe, he was sympathetic to the South for a variety of reasons, some having to do with aristocratic affinity with Southern plantation owners, a lot of it economic. And he wanted to enter the war on the side of the South. He supported secession but he wouldn't do it without the British. And the British never quite got there. So Napoléon did not enter militarily into the war. But he did do one thing. He took advantage of the distractions Americans had among themselves over the war and installed a puppet regime in Mexico. This was the first major transgression of the Monroe Doctrine which is the policy President Monroe had set up several decades earlier saying that the western hemisphere was essentially off-limits to European powers. This was the first major transgression of that doctrine which, by the way, was largely set up out of concern for France.

Peter Robinson: Okay, so France supports the South--not a good thing to do from the point of view of the United States--and he installs the brother of the Austro-Hungarian Emperor, the Emperor Maximilian into Mexico whose…

John Miller: Well, anti-Americanism is a deep part of French culture.

Peter Robinson: Bob?

Robert Paxton: I think there are a few Frenchmen like that but there are many who are not.

Peter Robinson: Many who are not. All right. This is television so this will be extremely compressed but we're now about to engage in a little more than two centuries of Franco-American history. John Miller, you describe France as our oldest enemy yet we're all taught that the United States owes its existence, its independence to France. If the French hadn't helped us during the Revolutionary War, we'd still be part of the British Empire. Sir?

John Miller: Well, there's a popular story in America about France and Franco-American relations that is essentially a myth. It does begin with Lafayette and Yorktown and then it proceeds to the Louisiana Purchase which is described as the greatest real estate transaction in history in which Napoléon gave vast amount of land to the United States at rock bottom prices to his good friend, Thomas Jefferson. There's the Statue of Liberty. There's, of course, the storming of Normandy right up to the present day. And when you see conflict like we had recently--the recent unpleasantness between the two countries over Iraq, a lot of Americans scratch their head and they say well, isn't France our oldest friend? Haven't they always been with us? And, in fact, that is not true. The popular story is told in our textbooks, cultivated by French diplomats and many Americans like to be seduced by this myth. The myth is 200 years of sweetness and light when, in fact, it is 300 years of friction and hostility."

maybe not most of the people of France, but there were Frenchies whos like to see America goin down even during the civil war, by support the South which is slavery country in my view but since then they take ani opportunity to show how much they hated America.

I think trying to apply a historians - or even a group of historians - historical view to the feelings of an entire nation today are pretty silly.

I think the transatlantic rift just represents the fundamental difference in values between Europe and the United States that has been exacerbated by the Bush Regime in order to divide Europe, but already existed before. Europe has a strong commitment to the rule of law, as well as a respect for freedom, life, democracy and peace that is absent with many people from the american ultra-capitalist establishment.

Originally posted by Moretti


Europe has a strong commitment to the rule of law, as well as a respect for freedom, life, democracy and peace that is absent with many people from the american ultra-capitalist establishment.

kinda like the French who decided to ban the scarf cause it offends them eh? pretty unbelievable.

I'm British. I've noticed general anti-American sentiments in the British public but then again i hear a lot of anti-Europe sentiments. I think Britains stuck in the middle. We don't like Europe, especially in the form of the EU, but we don't necessarly like the US at the moment mainly because of the Iraq. Personally i was neither for or against the war.

Originally posted by deltaboy
kinda like the French who decided to ban the scarf cause it offends them eh?

- deltaboy why are you attempting to mislead over this?

"The French" did not "ban the scarf".

Muslim girls were banned from wearing their headscarfs in the French state schools (I do not know if the ban extends to private schools).
"The scarf" has not been "banned" anywhere else.

Same as schools the world over (even in the USA) have dress codes.

The only difference here is that the issue was treated as so contentious it kept getting 'kicked upstairs' until the French gov ruled on it (with some Muslim support too I would like to point out).

pretty unbelievable.

- Yeah, seeing as this has been explained to you umteen times it is pretty unbelievable you so clearly continue wish to snipe and carry on your usual anti-French nonsense in this fashion with a distortion of the truth.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

I've read every post thus far and I must say, the energy you all are putting into defending your positions and attacking those that disagree, throwing facts around, speaking on behalf of entire nations etc... is... well... familiar, entertaining, yet disheartening....

Please allow me to shed some light on this situation before it goes 10 pages deep...

At NO POINT will ANY OF YOU on either side read the persuasions of others, stop and scratch your heads, and say to yourselves... "hmmm.. ya know, you presented a good argument, I concede, your right and I now see the errors in my judgment."

Seriously peoples... just be thankful we are aloud to voice our opinions. I just read an article on CNN about China cracking down on websites/blogs that have an anti-establishment rhetoric. ATS will be blocked in China (if it’s not already). They aren’t getting the opportunity to share their opinions.

Don’t take free speech and what we have here at ATS for granted, and don't attack others for seeing things with a different perspective. There’s no need.

Cliché I know, but agree to disagree and perhaps looking for solutions for these issues might be a more productive place to channel your energies.

Peace

I have said it before and will say it again

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH...

I live in this side of the atlantic (america) and in my view ALL GOVERMENTS want to get away with all they can, no one is free to throw stones at other because if you dig enough ALL countries at one time have done, do or will do terrible things.

I guess the main diference is that some goverments were or are better at PR and deceit while screwing others, and some others simply dont care. In my view the US ALWAYS have conducted themselves in this way but since this administartion began (and to good extent Nixon Administration) cared a lot less about what the world sensed and carried on.

The attack of the current administration has been in 2 fronts and they have succeded (until now) one is in getting a foothold in a key country in the middle east (Irak) by what ever means and have basically told the world they dont care...
The second is by making America a country fearsome of terrorists, that have the impresion that ALL THE WORLD hates them and WILL DESTROY THEM, and guess what? THEY HAVE SUCEEDED!!!

When I see this kind of threads here it reminds me that even those of us who think American values on the US constitution are the way to go, and the Paranoid society that started in 2001 I see perfectly the point that one Bout Time made "America stopped being America Long Time Ago"

The most incredible thing is that the US do not need Muslim terrorists, they have plenty at home, hint...they live in washington D.C.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

- deltaboy why are you attempting to mislead over this?

"The French" did not "ban the scarf".

Muslim girls were banned from wearing their headscarfs in the French state schools (I do not know if the ban extends to private schools).
"The scarf" has not been "banned" anywhere else.

Same as schools the world over (even in the USA) have dress codes.

The only difference here is that the issue was treated as so contentious it kept getting 'kicked upstairs' until the French gov ruled on it (with some Muslim support too I would like to point out).

pretty unbelievable.

- Yeah, seeing as this has been explained to you umteen times it is pretty unbelievable you so clearly continue wish to snipe and carry on your usual anti-French nonsense in this fashion with a distortion of the truth.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

there are Muslim women here in my computer lab and they are wearing the scarf, so i wonder why France be so over this scarf thing in school, not to mention crosses and that Jewish hat.

Originally posted by deltaboy
there are Muslim women here in my computer lab and they are wearing the scarf, so i wonder why France be so over this scarf thing in school

- It seems easily identifying kids is a bit of a deal here in Europe at the moment (witness the 'hoody' thing in the UK).

not to mention crosses and that Jewish hat.

- ?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

not to mention crosses and that Jewish hat.

- ?

www.freep.com...

PARIS -- A presidential commission backed a ban on Islamic head scarves in public schools Thursday -- stepping into the wrenching debate over how to preserve the country's secular identity while integrating France's Muslim population, the largest in western Europe.

If it becomes law, the measure also would bar other conspicuous religious symbols, including Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses. The commission spent six months studying the issue and held 120 hearings

I'm not sure wether this has been said before or not... But has anyone heard/seen the statistic that quotes that:

Either 1/3 or 2/3 (sorry cant remember) Germans, honestly beleive that 9/11 was an inside job...

Is it just me, or is this a huge percentage of a population - I for one am with them, but I just thought it might sprout some interesting conversation...

No, i havent seen that one, but have you noticed how 5 of the 6 teams in the NFL Europe are now located in Germany? And that north rhein westphalia voted aginst shroeder in recent elections?

And yeah ghost, i find it hard to believe that the terrorists could hijack and fly those planes, too. They must have had help from bush and the neocons.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier

Either 1/3 or 2/3 (sorry cant remember) Germans, honestly beleive that 9/11 was an inside job...

im sure the Germans like to believe many things as long it directs attention away from their own problems .

Quote:
Either 1/3 or 2/3 (sorry cant remember) Germans, honestly beleive that 9/11 was an inside job...




That is just ridiculous to say that 9/11 was an inside job, I suppose your going to say the massod had something to do with it next. I can see the headlines in Germany right now. US and Israel kill own civilians in fake 9/11 terrorist attack. That’s just stupid. C’mon you Germans have to be a little smarter than that.

Yes we are undoubtably becoming more anti-american.

It's many things (Kyoto, spy bases, cultural and military imperialism, starbucks, globalisation, contempt for the UN, the ICC, your interference in EU affairs, your arrogant view of your right to dominate the world and beyond - Galileo etc, GM crops, starbucks (again) etc etc.)

Hopefully most of you realise this is not unwarranted Yank-bashing but the sign of a moral collapse at the heart of your government and the destruction of you national legacy.

When your friends get concerned about you it's normally a sign that something's wrong.

Originally posted by finnman68
Quote:
Either 1/3 or 2/3 (sorry cant remember) Germans, honestly beleive that 9/11 was an inside job...




That is just ridiculous to say that 9/11 was an inside job, I suppose your going to say the massod had something to do with it next. I can see the headlines in Germany right now. US and Israel kill own civilians in fake 9/11 terrorist attack. That’s just stupid. C’mon you Germans have to be a little smarter than that.

I am not sure so maybe I am wrong, but there is some historical evidense of it happening in the past hasn't there? One nation sacrifacing their own people to get a more valuable need/want?

Not saying it was, but it surley wouldn't have been the first time a government did something like that...

Quote:
I am not sure so maybe I am wrong, but there is some historical evidense of it happening in the past hasn't there? One nation sacrifacing their own people to get a more valuable need/want?

Are you saying that america has done something like this in the past. I've never heard any such thing that an american has done to his own country men and women. so what are trying to say that about?

[edit on 8-6-2005 by finnman68]