With the politics of war looming in the air I’ve noticed that it seems like there are more anti-American statements in the press, and on various web sites like these I find Europeans and Americans sniping at one and another. And watching a report on the news today I heard of a couple reporters being fired in the UK for having pro-American stories
I think Americans and Europeans alike should try to find some common ground on these issues if we are ever going to have a chance to defeat the terrorist that want to change all of our lives.

Originally posted by finnman68
I think Americans and Europeans alike should try to find some common ground on these issues if we are ever going to have a chance to defeat the terrorist that want to change all of our lives.

A lot of countries don't believe Bush is a good person and that his policies are good for the rest of the world so of course they'll have an opinion which doesn't equal America's. Doens't make them anti-America, it makes them anti-bad politics.

This comes across as anti-American to those that believe America is the savior but most of the time, it's a difference of opinion based on different history, evidence and desired outcome.

Why doesn't America join the rest of the world and fight these criminals as criminals rather than trying to conqure countries that have nothing to do with them?

If the parts of the world is Anti-America, it could be said that America is Anti-Global Opinion.

Of course it depends on what has been said and who by, but a lot of the anti-American claims are simply frustration with policy that affects the rest of the world but only benefits America.

I like the previous post. I have lived in the Netherlands for a while and I can say that people here consider Bush a war criminal. It is not that we hate American people, most of them do not deserve such politicians. You should be brainwashed to consider going and killing over 200,000 Iraqis on the bases of false pretenses, to be a normal political act.

Of course, there are always people who will hate Americans just for the same reason, not differentiating people from war criminals. I do not agree with it. But still, America is a democracy, isn't it? Whose fault is that Bush is a president and Cheney vice president?

It’s not just the war in Iraq, a lot of people in America thinks it was justified to go in and take out a dictator Such as innocent Saddam.LOL! People sit and watch these dictators as they rape and pillage their own countries. Do you honestly think that North Koreans government will Listen to what the rest of the world wants from them, do think Iran will every comply with the rest of the world. Are we all just going to turn a blind eye to these countries and let them do as they please to their own people like in Sudan, the whole world is watching these people get murdered and starved. But when some one does something you have critics that say you should just go in and talk to them. Right does that work all the time? I’m not asking you to have the same view as I do. But sitting here bickering about something know one knows all the truth about will get us nowhere. And by the way this is just my opinion in no way am I trying to make you like American politics’. I just love reading your opinions about all of these subjects and having a few free spirited debates on these subjects.

The West isnt Anti-America, this is the big mistake you americans make. The West is anti-Bush and against the neocon foreign policy of the US government.

Why doesn't America join the rest of the world and fight these criminals as criminals

The irony, and unintentional truth in this statement great.

Of course it depends on what has been said and who by, but a lot of the anti-American claims are simply frustration with policy that affects the rest of the world but only benefits America.

As opposed to how every other nation acts, right?

A lot of countries don't believe Bush is a good person and that his policies are good for the rest of the world so of course they'll have an opinion which doesn't equal America's. Doens't make them anti-America, it makes them anti-bad politics.

And big headlines that read, "How could 50 million people be so dumb?" aren't in any way an insult to Americans, right?

I mean, when people insult America for the amount of charity it gives after a disaster, we shouldn't be insulted by that? How about how we choose to give charity to aids? How about the aid we give to Africa?

The world seems to like to find fault in everything America does, no matter how generous.

And how much of the anger towards the Bush administration is actually warranted, and not the result of simply unfair press in Europe? The man practically is demonized over there. I can easily see how someone would start to think of Bush as the devil, or next Hitler if they simply read the European press. It's far more biased then news outlets like Fox News (which seems to get the same treatment as Bush over there in Europe).

[edit on 8-6-2005 by Disturbed Deliverer]

What "terrorist" that wants to change all of our lives? The fake ones that are promulgated to us? This is a conspiracy site. You are going to find that some of us don't buy into everything the government media complex tells us to fear.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by heelstone]

What "terrorist" that wants to change all of our lives? The fake ones that are promulgated to us? This is a conspiracy site. You are going to find that some of us don't buy into everything the media tells us to fear.

And this topic isn't just about how people here feel. I don't think it's the norm even in Europe to think that Bush was directly behind 9/11, and all the terrorists are completely made up by America/NWO/Reptilians/Illuminati etc...

That’s correct the media has a lot to do with how people think and act. The media in general has control of a lot of things, like the story in Newsweek that caused riots and deaths. I’m not really bashing the press because they work in conjunction with the government, if we didn’t have the press or media the governments would run amuck

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

Why doesn't America join the rest of the world and fight these criminals as criminals

The irony, and unintentional truth in this statement great.

Of course it depends on what has been said and who by, but a lot of the anti-American claims are simply frustration with policy that affects the rest of the world but only benefits America.

As opposed to how every other nation acts, right?

A lot of countries don't believe Bush is a good person and that his policies are good for the rest of the world so of course they'll have an opinion which doesn't equal America's. Doens't make them anti-America, it makes them anti-bad politics.

And big headlines that read, "How could 50 million people be so dumb?" aren't in any way an insult to Americans, right?

I mean, when people insult America for the amount of charity it gives after a disaster, we shouldn't be insulted by that? How about how we choose to give charity to aids? How about the aid we give to Africa?

The world seems to like to find fault in everything America does, no matter how generous.

And how much of the anger towards the Bush administration is actually warranted, and not the result of simply unfair press in Europe? The man practically is demonized over there. I can easily see how someone would start to think of Bush as the devil, or next Hitler if they simply read the European press. It's far more biased then news outlets like Fox News (which seems to get the same treatment as Bush over there in Europe).

[edit on 8-6-2005 by Disturbed Deliverer]

But did the world hate Bush in 2000?
Did the world hate Bush on Sept 12th?

I don't think so. Sure at those times he had his opposition as does every world leader but the reason why this 'hate' or 'disaproval' is snowballing on Bush and making more people focus on America and label them with blanket statements is because Bush continues to f-up, continues to disregard international law and policy and continues to claim his way or the highway.

It's building up and getting worse each week because Bush is making things worse. We're not going to praise him if he does something good when he's done a 100 things which are bad.

Of course, when we say 'Bush' we mean the administration as a whole, the people responsable for what ever America does, Bush gets the label and the attention because he's the top of the chain, therefor, responsable.

What's the point of a President if it's not to claim responsability?
If it's not Bush but Congress who make all the decisions, then what is the Presidents job exactly? I would think it's a figurative representation of America and America's political system - making him responsable.

But did the world hate Bush in 2000?
Did the world hate Bush on Sept 12th?

Yes to both. They also hated America for decades. Iraq isn't the source of any hate for America.

As an American who has been to Canada, as well as Spain before Bush, I can say that there has always been a group in Europe who are certainly anti-American. There are people who won't talk to you, and people who will give you an attitude as soon as they find out where you're from.

I don't think so. Sure at those times he had his opposition as does every world leader but the reason why this 'hate' or 'disaproval' is snowballing on Bush and making more people focus on America and label them with blanket statements is because Bush continues to f-up, continues to disregard international law and policy and continues to claim his way or the highway.

Nothing Bush has done has yet to compare to things done by certain European governments, or past Democratic presidents like Clinton.

Tell me, how much attention does France get for their support of the militia that carried out genocide and Rwanda, as well as the Sudan? How about the recent events in the Ivory Coast?

I'd say that's far worse than anything Bush has done.

It's building up and getting worse each week because Bush is making things worse. We're not going to praise him if he does something good when he's done a 100 things which are bad.

It's not a matter of just neglecting to praise him when he does good, it's a matter of finding fault even when he does good. Tell me, what kind of people complain when Bush does something like tripple America's aid to Africa?

Why is it that America's strong stance against the Sudan is almost ignored completely?

And tell me, since when is it the responsibility of the media to simply report the bad? Why is it that the European press (hell, even the American press) fail to report any positive stories about Bush EVER?

The main problem is that the Europeans think that they are still colonial masters and former colonies and their citizens must behave with servitude. The whole EU is nothing more than a post colonial plutocratic organisation that is bent on the return of colonial policies through out the world.
We in America don't support that and infact think that it is absolutely barbaric, because if we wanted we could have had the whole of europe to ourselves after the WW2 and we earned it too,but thats not the American way we believe in Freedom and liberty and other noble ideals that Europeans don't understand because they have never been without it. Most Europeans don't think that what they did during their colonial rule was bad and they even justify that their colonial rule was for the good of the world and other such crap. They are actively taught that their colonial heritage is rich and glorious period and have no reservations that occupying some other people land and forcing them to serve as slaves, extracting undue taxes and neglecting the people of their colony is not only downright wrong but also inhuman.
Almost all ideas of subjugation have originated in Europe, slavery, aparetheid etc.
That is the fundamental difference in the American and Western psyche, some thing that cannot change as we have both walked along different paths. Thats why even the citizens of third world nations still face repression from Europeans in Europe, mind you the Europeans had no qualms of invadeing their lands and stealing their gold and resources but now when they come back and take Europeans jobs the Europeans are up in arms- "As you sow, so shall you reap"- The Holy BIBLE.
Another fundamental difference between Europeans and Americans is that most Europeans are godless/ not godfearing people while here in America we are all mostly god fearing people thus we believe in institution and the divine order, all these make us markedly different people and are the base for almost all the contention even though it maybe disguised as what ever the current problem is.



[edit on 8-6-2005 by IAF101]

The UK is right in there with America but I don’t hear you putting down Blair and his administration, it’s always America and it administration, UK is in Iraq and Afghanistan. But it’s always let’s blame bush and us arrogant Americans. And you can’t say there isn’t an anti-American bias in Europe, I read it in your papers and on the net, were I work I get to talk to a lot of people from the UK, France, Canadians and Germans. And I get the same response every time I try to talk. Were all arrogant, selfish and spoiled. I don’t understand that concept of thinking. Its not true America is one of the most unselfish unarrogant and unspoiled countries in the world. I have nothing to say negative about your government or the people of your countries. I just wish you wouldn’t judge people until you know them.

[edit on 8-6-2005 by finnman68]

Well As a Europeaen i have to react. I think that i speak for a lot of europeans when i say we don't hate Bush, we just disaprove some of his unilateral actions and decisions.

I guess a lot has to do with the conduct of the Bush administration.
For instance statements made by the President that sound like this:
"You're either with us or against us"

This leaves NO room for neutrality, something which in my eyes should be anybody's given right. By saying that, Bush is actualy calling every single person who's not entirely with him a "terrorist".Calling people terrorists while they are not is not a wise thing to do in my book.

Well As a Europeaen i have to react.

Funny thing is, if an American made this same comment on these boards, they'd instantly be told how they're nationalistic and ignorant.

I think that i speak for a lot of europeans when i say we don't hate Bush, we just disaprove some of his unilateral actions and decisions.

What exactly has America done unilaterally? We aren't alone in Afghanistan or Iraq, now are we? And I fail to see how what Bush did with Iraq is any different then what Clinton and NATO did, except that may be worse, because unlike Bush, Clinton didn't even bother to go the UN to get permission to bomb them. Bush actually at least asked the UN, and the UN even found Iraq in violation of sanctions.

I suppose that's different, though, because Western Europe as a whole supported it...

I find the claim that most Europeans don't hate Bush laughable, since people in just this topic have already described their feelings towards Bush has hate, or being "anti-Bush."

You can find plenty of people around these forums comparing Bush to the likes of Hitler, or even saying his administration has been as bad as a guy like Kim Jong's.

This leaves NO room for neutrality, something which in my eyes should be anybody's given right. By saying that, Bush is actualy calling every single person who's not entirely with him a "terrorist".Calling people terrorists while they are not is not a wise thing to do in my book. [/QUOTE]

Yet people applaud politicians in Europe who insult our government directly.

Originally posted by XyZeR
Well As a Europeaen i have to react. I think that i speak for a lot of europeans when i say we don't hate Bush, we just disaprove some of his unilateral actions and decisions.

This is just crap, Europeans are basically have an identity crisis they see them selves as their former colonial selves but the world sees them as some third world getto, see thats why they are having a problem when we Americans don't refer to the Europeans explicitly and treat them special.
You peopel a hate us because we are what you always wanted to be but cannot be thats a fact and no amount of sarcasm or denial can change it.
Tell me this; Do you approve of your colonial past and the subjugation of races weaker than yourselves? Don't you all secretly revel in your past exploitation of the world and their savage races, being able to subjugate them then bleed their countries dry and send all the money back to Europe so you could live with all the riches of the poor that serve you??
This you all know is true, and when we legitimately attacked by a group of pagan third world thugs and ask the world for support the Europeans see this as arrogant, well so is post colonialism!

"You can find plenty of people around these forums comparing Bush to the likes of Hitler, or even saying his administration has been as bad as a guy like Kim Jong's."

Comparing Bush to Hitler is just not acceptable, there is no comparison.
Hitler actually served in the military and saw combat, was a good speaker and was intelligent.... whereas GWB....

Seriously though, as a Brit I hold my own government as responsible as the Bush administration. Also all those members of Parliament/congress who gave their support in the face of blatant lies and transparently bizarre and laughable "intelligence" reports.
Ok, they're politicians and we should expect them to lie to us, anybody who thinks they wouldn't needs to get their heads outta their butts. However, when those lies lead to many deaths and blatant profiteering by members of government and their backers, something has to be done.

I just find it hard to believe that Bush still has so much support from his own people whilst he continues to lie to them, and get them to pay for his illegal war whilst his corporate buddies (and family members) make $Billions.

I just find it hard to believe that Bush still has so much support from his own people whilst he continues to lie to them, and get them to pay for his illegal war whilst his corporate buddies (and family members) make $Billions.

Yet Blair was just re-elected...

Comparing Bush to Hitler is just not acceptable, there is no comparison.
Hitler actually served in the military and saw combat, was a good speaker and was intelligent.... whereas GWB....

What a way to illustrate the point. Even an American who doesn't like Bush should find this kind of nonsense insulting.

Yeah... whatever

See, some of us can keep a sense of humour over issues like this and don't take ourselves too seriously. If you can't bear to hear criticism then go hang out somewhere else.
I bow to no man and respect nobody until they act in a way worthy of respect. Bush and Blair, and the self serving criminals that surround them, have yet to prove, to me at least, that they are worthy of an ounce of respect.
As a taxpayer who pays their salary I'll reserve the right to criticise at every opportunity

GWB is our representative to the rest of the world and when you put him down its like putting America. And why is it every time some one brings up America they have to bring Israel into the fray.