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Former president calls for end of Gitmo.

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posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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If Jimmy Carter says Gitmo must be dismantled then we have but one course of action, double that puppy in size and round up twice as many of those enemy combatents.

I lived thru Jimmy Carters presidency and in no uncertain terms he was unfit to hold the office. He made people feel ashamed to be an American, not because it was a shame, but because he wanted people to feel that way.

He should go away now and let the latest stooge we've elected finally do the nation under, as a professional courtesy.

This is just MHO.

Wupy




posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by CTO
I don't blow smoke when I talk about these things, unlike many who would mollycoddle the enemy...


Save the butch talk for someone who's impressed by it.


Let's see what right-leaning Washington Times has to say....



At least seven former prisoners of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have returned to terrorism, despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to renounce violence.
At least two are believed to have died in fighting in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a raid on a suspected training camp in Afghanistan, said Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman. Others are at large.
Additional former detainees have expressed a desire to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russians in Chechnya.


So.. out of thousands of prisoners taken (many of which were not guilty of any crime), at least seven former prisoners have returned to terrorism... That's not many, I would say - altho one is too many. I'm surprised that not more than that have gotten into the business considering how so many of them have been treated. Violence begets violence..

at least two are believed to have died in fighting... Believed to have? I don't see any solid evidence there of anything.

Any other people, any other links than Wa.Times?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Boatphone
In Al Qaeda's trainning mannual tells its followers to report false abuse. This is because they know that the U.S. does not tourture. Also, the enemy knows that the left-wing types will jump on these reports and help them; THE TERRORISTS!


Have you seen one of these manuals for yourself? If so, can you read the language its written in?

You're going on the word of an administration that looked YOU in the eyes and LIED to you (WMD).



Foolish! You can read this from many sites, type it in to google and it will come up. Also, no one ever lied to me. They supected that Iraq had WMD's so they didnt (they could not risk Saddam with WMDs, they did the right thing!! Better to be safe then sorry!!) want to risk it. So, they went in...nothing more. No lie.


Post Script: Plus, it is fact that Iraq did indeed have WMDs before we went in. They used them on Iran and the Kurds in the north!!


[edit on 11-6-2005 by Boatphone]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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How many of us are American here? Remember this?

" We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

This is America people. The Torch barer of freedom. To say that it isnt the Gulag is a joke. They are being detained without charges.

To be taken in, without charge, without representation, is borderline
Sadaam like in nature. While I can understand the implications of internal protection, lets at least have a solid charge and put them in a legal justice system.

If you are detained by the United States in the name of democracy and freedom, then by God you should be put into the system, given legal council, and afforded the rights of American citizens.

We are no better then a terrorist, when we result to terrorist extremes.
Detainment, Torture, Softening, whatever the hell you want to label it, isnt flying with me. America needs to stand for America.

Peace



[edit on 11-6-2005 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by CTO
I don't blow smoke when I talk about these things, unlike many who would mollycoddle the enemy...


Save the butch talk for someone who's impressed by it.


Let's see what right-leaning Washington Times has to say....



At least seven former prisoners of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have returned to terrorism, despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to renounce violence.
At least two are believed to have died in fighting in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a raid on a suspected training camp in Afghanistan, said Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman. Others are at large.
Additional former detainees have expressed a desire to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russians in Chechnya.


So.. out of thousands of prisoners taken (many of which were not guilty of any crime), at least seven former prisoners have returned to terrorism... That's not many, I would say - altho one is too many. I'm surprised that not more than that have gotten into the business considering how so many of them have been treated. Violence begets violence..

at least two are believed to have died in fighting... Believed to have? I don't see any solid evidence there of anything.

Any other people, any other links than Wa.Times?


One terrorist back on the street is too many! It only takes one to kill hundreds of innocent people. You would change your tune if they relesed these terrorsitd into your backyard!!



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Boatphone
In Al Qaeda's trainning mannual tells its followers to report false abuse. This is because they know that the U.S. does not tourture. Also, the enemy knows that the left-wing types will jump on these reports and help them; THE TERRORISTS!


Have you seen one of these manuals for yourself? If so, can you read the language its written in?

You're going on the word of an administration that looked YOU in the eyes and LIED to you (WMD).



Foolish! You can read this from many sites, type it in to google and it will come up. Also, no one ever lied to me. They supected that Iraq had WMD's so they didnt (they could not risk Saddam with WMDs, they did the right thing!! Better to be safe then sorry!!) want to risk it. So, they went in...nothing more. No lie.


Post Script: Plus, it is fact that Iraq did indeed have WMDs before we went in. They used them on Iran and the Kurds in the north!!


[edit on 11-6-2005 by Boatphone]


Sorry buddy. You were lied to. The proof is all over the place. You can either come to terms with that, or continue to sound thoroughly uninformed.

You might want to go back and study the timelines a little more. Oh yes, and who it was that supplied Saddam with his inventory of weapons.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
One terrorist back on the street is too many! It only takes one to kill hundreds of innocent people. You would change your tune if they relesed these terrorsitd into your backyard!!




I"ve been face to face with them myself, so you can save the heated lecturing. You ever been in the thick of it?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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Catching someone on the battlefield trying to kill American soldiers or planning to blow me up is plenty of charges for me.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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We did give Saddam some help in the weapons department when it served us. But that is what a successful country must do to protect its interests sometimes. You see running and protecting a nation is not as simple as you think. It is 100% fact that Saddam had WMDs and i'm glad my government didnt take the risk of trusting that Saddam gave them all up.

Right or wrong it is better to be safe than sorry. You and the washington post can keep slandering if you like....


[edit on 11-6-2005 by Boatphone]


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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ECK, did you read that piece? It stated that OUT OF THE 146 DETAINEES RELEASED at least 7 have returned to terrorism... not 7 out of the thousands of enemy captured...

The same was reported by the left leaning CBS news department:

www.cbsnews.com...

and MSN:

slate.msn.com...

and the Washington Post:

www.washingtonpost.com...

There are quite a few more references, if you would like to Google it you'll find them immediately...


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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The bottom line seems to be this... ECK. you believe your government is lying to you about terror and terrorism and no form of proof, no number of references will make a lick of difference to you...

I gave 20 years of my life in defense of this country and I happen to believe that what we are doing in the war on terror is not only right but necessary...

The US and it's government aren't perfect, far from it but it's the best in the world and I'm proud to stand behind her...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
Right or wrong it is better to be safe than sorry. You and the washington post can keep slandering if you like....




Slandering.. perhaps you should take a look at the definition of that. btw, you didn't answer my question..



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by CTO
The bottom line seems to be this... ECK. you believe your government is lying to you about terror and terrorism and no form of proof, no number of references will make a lick of difference to you...

I gave 20 years of my life in defense of this country and I happen to believe that what we are doing in the war on terror is not only right but necessary...

The US and it's government aren't perfect, far from it but it's the best in the world and I'm proud to stand behind her...


That's good for you.


You, on the other hand, refuse to see abundant proof that we have detained FAR MORE innocent people than those who are actually fighting us. You also seem to buy into this administration's fiction without much critical examination. Whether or not you choose to continue that is up to you of course.


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:24 PM
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Could you provide proof of the 'innocent people' that we are detaining???

The detainees in Gitmo were taken in combat attempting to kill America and allied troops. That doesn't sound terribly innocent to me...

By the way... we aren't detaining thousands at Gitmo... something under 600 is correct...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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I can only suggest that you employ google. It's an amazing tool.

There is so much written on this that no one with their eyes open can miss seeing it. If you choose not to, that's another matter.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by HIFIGUY
How many of us are American here? Remember this?

" We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

This is America people. The Torch barer of freedom. To say that it isnt the Gulag is a joke. They are being detained without charges.

To be taken in, without charge, without representation, is borderline
Sadaam like in nature. While I can understand the implications of internal protection, lets at least have a solid charge and put them in a legal justice system.

If you are detained by the United States in the name of democracy and freedom, then by God you should be put into the system, given legal council, and afforded the rights of American citizens.

We are no better then a terrorist, when we result to terrorist extremes.
Detainment, Torture, Softening, whatever the hell you want to label it, isnt flying with me. America needs to stand for America.

Peace


I suggest a re-read of this post. It's dead on.


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Oh, come on... they are enemy combatants... they have tried to, and in many cases did, kill Americans!!! These detainees should not be afforded the same protections that American citizens are. To expect us to do that is foolish.

They do not fall under the protections of the Geneva Convention. If you can find an exemption for them under the Convention I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong.

Treating our enemies with kid gloves affords us nothing. Allegations of abuse at Gitmo boil down to nothing more dramatic than minor verbal taunting and removal of privileges... I'd need serious proof from you of anything else...



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
We did give Saddam some help in the weapons department when it served us. But that is what a successful country must do to protect its interests sometimes. You see running and protecting a nation is not as simple as you think. It is 100% fact that Saddam had WMDs and i'm glad my government didnt take the risk of trusting that Saddam gave them all up.

Right or wrong it is better to be safe than sorry. You and the washington post can keep slandering if you like....


[edit on 11-6-2005 by Boatphone]


Wow, put this nugget in the time capsual because i'm sure China and Russia will be thinking 'it's better to be safe than sorry' when they turn their missles towards America sometime in the next 10 years.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by CTO
Oh, come on... they are enemy combatants... they have tried to, and in many cases did, kill Americans!!!


Yet they still haven't cracked 1% of the amount of deaths the US have caused on innocents in Iraq in the last 10 years!


I'm sure if the 'enemy' had $250 billion dollars to spend on an armed force, they wouldn't be relying on homemade bombs and 30 year old guns to do what ever they can but when you don't have that luxury, you fight back any way possible to defend your country from an invading force.
If there was an arab resistance that was backed by a billion dollar army and were killing troops and innocents the same way the US killing is doing so, would they have rights then if they were caught or would they just be considered 'high tech terrorists'??

Since America isn't actually waging war on any countries but instead a 'rouge group' which changes and shifts everyday and only 'leads' the US into other countries (sometimes even pre-emptively just to be sure), any enemy fighting back against America is instantly classed as a 'terrorist' and therfor have their human rights voided under a technicality created by the US and not endorsed by Human Rights groups or the UN.

When will it stop? How big will these Gulags get?
Nice little system the Yanks have come up with don't you think - fight back and you loose your human rights.

You gotta give the hawks credit thou for coming up with a loophole which allows them to invade and kill who they want and lock up anyone that doesn't comply.

'You are us or your our enemy' - is what Bush meant i guess.



[edit on 11-6-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]


CTO

posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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>>Yet they still haven't cracked 1% of the amount of deaths the US have caused on innocents in Iraq in the last 10 years!


I'm sure if the 'enemy' had $250 billion dollars to spend on an armed force, they wouldn't be relying on homemade bombs and 30 year old guns to do what ever they can but when you don't have that luxury, you fight back any way possible to defend your country from an invading force.



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