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A huge air assault uisng 100 planes on Iraq 1 month before Congress gave Bush go ahead

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posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 05:08 AM
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Sometimes even I am flabergasted at what the Bush Administration has gotten away with and the media just has not told you. Has anyone heard anything at all about this in the mainstream media? I have not I know we did occassional bombings but this is a massive assault carried out without informing the American people. Anyone remember this?

www.democracynow.org.../06/06/1328242

"It was a huge air assault: Approximately 100 US and British planes flew from Kuwait into Iraqi airspace. At least seven types of aircraft were part of this massive operation, including US F-15 Strike Eagles and Royal Air Force Tornado ground-attack planes. They dropped precision-guided munitions on Saddam Hussein's major western air-defense facility, clearing the path for Special Forces helicopters that lay in wait in Jordan. Earlier attacks had been carried out against Iraqi command and control centers, radar detection systems, Revolutionary Guard units, communication centers and mobile air-defense systems. The Pentagon's goal was clear: Destroy Iraq's ability to resist. This was war.

"But there was a catch: The war hadn't started yet, at least not officially. This was September 2002--a month before Congress had voted to give President Bush the authority he used to invade Iraq, two months before the United Nations brought the matter to a vote and more than six months before "shock and awe" officially began."

www.democracynow.org.../06/06/1328247

I mean the reality here is that this evidence from this Downing Street memo reveals that the President may have engaged in a conspiracy to mislead and deceive the United States Congress and the American people about the basis for going to war against Iraq. And they have, in effect undermined and violated the War Powers Clause of the United States Constitution, which makes it quite clear that Congress and only Congress has the power to declare war.




posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 05:43 AM
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The UK & US had pretty much bombed Iraq on a daily basis since the 1991 war. That was hardly ever reported just like the UK & US turned a blind eye when Turkey carried out ground & Air attacks against the Kurds. Biritish and US air force pilots were recalled from their regular missions and support aircraft told to turn off their radar when they were enforcing the no-fly zone which was supposed to be protecting the Kurds from Saddam. Of course it's ok to kill and bomb the kurds when it's one of your allies doing it!



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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You have proof of this arnold? Thats a serious claim just to lay out there with no back up.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 07:16 AM
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The U.S. and UK were patrolling the UN mandated no-fly zones over Iraq for years.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
You have proof of this arnold? Thats a serious claim just to lay out there with no back up.


here's a few:

www.newyouth.com...

Turkey, a member of the US-led NATO alliance that is bombing Serbia with the claimed aim of ending the oppression of the Kosovar people, is viciously escalating its attacks on the Kurdish people within and without its borders. While Turkey’s war against the Kurds is every bit as brutal and uncompromising as Serbia’s against the Kosovars, the silence from Washington and other NATO capitals - and the capitalist mass media - is deafening.


www.greenleft.org.au...

The hypocrisy of the US government's claim that its cruise missile barrage on Iraq was to protect the rights of the Kurdish people in the US-proclaimed "safe haven" in northern Iraq is more obvious than ever following Washington's open endorsement of Turkey's plan to invade the region to drive out its Kurdish opponents.


www.caabu.org...

Since 1991, Turkey has continued to invoke a pre-war bilateral agreement with Iraq, which had lapsed at the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988, allowing Turkish forces to conduct cross-border operations in pursuit of PKK members . Turkey has regularly bombed and shelled border areas, on occasion resorting to large-scale ground offences into northern Iraq, supported by air strikes, to attack PKK bases. These incursions always took place within the northern NFZ, which applies only to Iraqi aircraft


www.apfn.net...

In March last year, RAF pilots patrolling the "no fly zone" in Kurdish Iraq publicly protested for the first time about their enforced complicity in the Turkish campaign. The pilots complained that they were frequently ordered to return to their base in Turkey to allow the Turkish air force to bomb the very people they were meant to be "protecting".


www.geocities.com...

Now John Pilger reports in the New Statesman on 19 March that British pilots claim that they are stood down so that Turkish planes can bomb the Kurds in the northern no-fly zone! According to Pilger:

"Royal Air Force pilots have protested for the first time about their role in the bombing of Iraq. Pilots patrolling the so-called no-fly zone in the north of the country have spoken angrily about how they have been ordered to return to their base in Turkey in order to allow the Turkish air force to bomb the Kurds in Iraq - the very people the British are meant to be "protecting". The pilots say that, whenever the Turkish air force wants to launch attacks on the Kurds, the Turks are recalled to base and their radar is switched so that the targets will not be visible. One British pilot reported seeing the devastation caused by the attacks when he resumed his patrol."



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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First up, you are omitting data important to the story. You only show sources that support your agenda.

For instance: Turkey wasn’t just bombing Kurds, they were going after the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), a well known terrorist group also guilty of killing Kurdish civilians.

The UK and US allowed Turkey to go after the PKK, not kill the Kurds as you state it.

Check this about the PKK that the Turks were hunting (source):

"Founded in 1978 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. The group’s goal has been to establish an independent, democratic Kurdish state in the Middle East. In the early 1990s, the PKK moved beyond rural-based insurgent activities to include urban terrorism. Turkish authorities captured Chairman Abdullah Ocalan in Kenya in early 1999; the Turkish State Security Court subsequently sentenced him to death. In August 1999, Ocalan announced a “peace initiative,” ordering members to refrain from violence and requesting dialogue with Ankara on Kurdish issues. At a PKK Congress in January 2000, members supported Ocalan’s initiative and claimed the group now would use only political means to achieve its public goal of improved rights for Kurds in Turkey. In April 2002 at its 8th Party Congress, the PKK changed its name to the Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress (KADEK) and proclaimed a commitment to nonviolent activities in support of Kurdish rights. Despite this pledge, a PKK/KADEK spokesman stated that its armed wing, The People’s Defense Force, would not disband or surrender its weapons for reasons of self-defense. In late 2003, the group sought to engineer another political face-lift, renaming the group Kongra-Gel (KGK) and brandishing its “peaceful” intentions, while continuing to commit attacks and refuse disarmament..."


So, you make claims that the USA and UK allowed Turkey to freely bomb the Kurds. But you omit that the Turks were going after a group Kurds known as the PKK, a terrorist group responsible for attacks and killing of other Kurds among others.

I also want to point out you lumped the USA in your accusations, but none of your supporting data states US examples, just the UK. (agenda?)

Arnold, just more Anti west propaganda in your post, always omitting the whole story just to show your opinion in the best light.


[edit on 7-6-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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wouldn't anti-US news media (al -jezeera) have reported a massive bombing campaign ?
We're not talking about fly-by's here, but bombing......



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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So that made it ok for the US & UK to ignore the no-fly zones when it pleased them. The no-fly zones were not authorised under any UN resolution but put in place for humanitarian reasons. The fact is that Turkey has long been persecuting the Kurds, for instance it is illegal in Turkey for any paper to be printed in kurdish. There are laws which makes it illegal for Kurds to speak their own language. Parliamentarians and journalists who speak out against the persecution end up in prison or are assasinated.

The Turks have over the years destroyed 3000 Kurdish Villages, displaced more than THREE MILLION people and killed tens of thousands. Most of the Kurds in Iraq fled there across the border to escape this only to find persecution from Saddam and then find the NATO forces there to protect them turn a blind eye to further persecution from the Turks,

As you said the goal of the PKK is to establish a democratic Kurdish state in the Middle East. Yes they are a group that used sucide attacks etc to try and acheive trat goal but are they terrorists? Judging from the persecution they have been subjected to and the complete failure of the international community to protect them I would assume that they consider themselves freedom fighters. But what I really object to is the use of the RAF to provide cover or turn a blind eye to the the attacks on the kurds which resulted in the deaths of many innocent Kurdish men, women and children. It is hypocritical of the US and UK to object to Iraqi attacks on the Kurds for the exact same reasons as Turkey was attacking them was it not?

Don't forget that Turkey is guilty of some pretty serious Human Rights offences itself

have a look at web.amnesty.org... for a summary of Turkey.


Derya Aksakal was reportedly pulled into a minibus as she was walking along the street in Istanbul on 3 March. She was then blindfolded and questioned about her political activities by three masked men, one of whom she recognized as a police officer. The men reportedly extinguished cigarettes on her body, threatened her with rape and subjected her to a mock execution before releasing her about two hours later


not exactly the action of a country I would want my country to support.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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Some more data on the PKK:

Activities

Primary targets have been Turkish Government security forces in Turkey, local Turkish officials, and villagers who oppose the organization in Turkey. Conducted attacks on Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in dozens of West European cities in 1993 and again in spring 1995. In an attempt to damage Turkey’s tourist industry, the then PKK bombed tourist sites and hotels and kidnapped foreign tourists in the early-tomid 1990s. KGK continued to engage in violent acts—including at least one terrorist attack—against the Turkish state in 2003. Several members were arrested in Istanbul in late 2003 in possession of explosive materials.

Strength

Approximately 4,000 to 5,000, most of whom currently are located in northern Iraq. Has thousands of sympathizers in Turkey and Europe.

So, the PKK are basically hiding amongst the Kurds in Iraq. It appears to me you have an anti Turkey agenda as well. Let me guess: Your country is the only "good" one right?



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Some more data on the PKK:

Activities

Primary targets have been Turkish Government security forces in Turkey, local Turkish officials, and villagers who oppose the organization in Turkey. Conducted attacks on Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in dozens of West European cities in 1993 and again in spring 1995. In an attempt to damage Turkey’s tourist industry, the then PKK bombed tourist sites and hotels and kidnapped foreign tourists in the early-tomid 1990s. KGK continued to engage in violent acts—including at least one terrorist attack—against the Turkish state in 2003. Several members were arrested in Istanbul in late 2003 in possession of explosive materials.

Strength

Approximately 4,000 to 5,000, most of whom currently are located in northern Iraq. Has thousands of sympathizers in Turkey and Europe.

So, the PKK are basically hiding amongst the Kurds in Iraq. It appears to me you have an anti Turkey agenda as well. Let me guess: Your country is the only "good" one right?



And what country do you think I am from then? If you read what I put you will see that I was critisising The UK goverment...MY OWN GOVERNMENT. Yes I have an anti-turkey agenda just like I am anti any country which systematically persecutes it's own citizens or commits human rights vioplations and yes that includes the US as well



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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um, this didn't happen, not the way it's told, anyway. iraq may have had occasional planes shooting and bombing artillery posts, but not 100 planes on a bombing spree. no, i was not there, personally, but a person i spoke with through a 4 wheel drive message board i frequent, was there, before and after the "shock and awe." he was actually a saddam supporter, so i have not had contact with him since shortly after the initial invasion (his choice), but there was no mention of any US bombings before the invasion, except the occasional artillery post being destroyed.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by fledgling666
um, this didn't happen, not the way it's told, anyway. iraq may have had occasional planes shooting and bombing artillery posts, but not 100 planes on a bombing spree. no, i was not there, personally, but a person i spoke with through a 4 wheel drive message board i frequent, was there, before and after the "shock and awe." he was actually a saddam supporter, so i have not had contact with him since shortly after the initial invasion (his choice), but there was no mention of any US bombings before the invasion, except the occasional artillery post being destroyed.


I disagree with that.
I can't find the exact instance of 100 planes at once but I did find one involving 20 US and British planes on a strike in 2001.
Here's a couple of articles from the Department of Defense:



defenselink.mil

WASHINGTON, Feb. 23, 2001 -- President Bush said Feb. 22 that recent coalition air attacks against Iraq sent a strong message to Saddam Hussein that “this administration will remain engaged” in Southwest Asia.

Bush, speaking at his first White House press conference, also said the Feb. 16 raid was designed to get Saddam Hussein’s attention and to degrade his capacity to harm coalition pilots patrolling the no-fly zones.




defenselink.mil

WASHINGTON, Aug. 10, 2001 --

---About 20 coalition strike aircraft were involved in the strikes, near An Numaniyah, about 70 miles southeast of Baghdad, and against a mobile early warning radar system and surface-to-air missile site near An Nasiriyah, about 170 miles southeast of Baghdad, DoD spokesperson Army Lt. Col. Steve Campbell said.




defenselink.mil
WASHINGTON, Jan. 24, 2002 -- U.S. aircraft since Jan. 21 have struck Iraqi targets three times in the southern no- fly zone, DoD officials said Jan. 24.

Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters that U.S. aircraft enforcing U.N. resolutions on Iraq dropped precision-guided munitions on anti-aircraft artillery and missile sites Jan. 21, 23 and 24. The attacks responded to Iraqi anti-aircraft gunfire and radar targeting on patrolling coalition aircraft.




defenselink.mil
WASHINGTON, Dec. 16, 2002 -- Coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone in southern Iraq have struck Iraqi military sites three days running, according to U.S. Central Command officials.

Early this morning Eastern time, coalition aircraft from Operation Southern Watch used precision-guided weapons to strike an Iraqi communications site near Al Kut, about 100 miles southeast of Baghdad. The strike was in response to the Iraqis' firing surface-to-air missiles at coalition aircraft, according to a CENTCOM press release.


There's many others listed here:
www.defenselink.mil...



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by fledgling666
um, this didn't happen, not the way it's told, anyway. iraq may have had occasional planes shooting and bombing artillery posts, but not 100 planes on a bombing spree. no, i was not there, personally, but a person i spoke with through a 4 wheel drive message board i frequent, was there, before and after the "shock and awe." he was actually a saddam supporter, so i have not had contact with him since shortly after the initial invasion (his choice), but there was no mention of any US bombings before the invasion, except the occasional artillery post being destroyed.


Here is the full article I posted a link to a small portion of it with an interview of the author but just now found the whole article just for you, the link to it was in the original post from democracy now website and I missed it completely until I went back and reread it.
www.thenation.com...

The Sunday Times of London recently reported on new evidence showing that "The RAF and US aircraft doubled the rate at which they were dropping bombs on Iraq in 2002 in an attempt to provoke Saddam Hussein into giving the allies an excuse for war." The paper cites newly released statistics from the British Defense Ministry showing that "the Allies dropped twice as many bombs on Iraq in the second half of 2002 as they did during the whole of 2001" and that "a full air offensive" was under way months before the invasion had officially begun.

Now due to copyright issues I don't think I can post a diret link to this so go to this link cwww.timesonline.co.uk... and then on the left where it says search type in 100 planes and then wait for the box to come up, click on search this site and you will get two articles back for may 29 2005, click on one and it will give you another good article also on this same story.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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They dropped precision-guided munitions on Saddam Hussein's major western air-defense facility, clearing the path for Special Forces helicopters that lay in wait in Jordan. Earlier attacks had been carried out against Iraqi command and control centers, radar detection systems, Revolutionary Guard units, communication centers and mobile air-defense systems.


These were the same command and control centers and radar installations that were used on a DAILY basis to fire on Coalition jets patrolling the no-fly zone. With Saddam shooting at our planes and offering rewards to anyone who brought one down, these became legitimate targets for Coalition forces regardless of any declaration of war.

I love how everyone is so quick to defend such an evil regime. I'm glad it was toppled. You liberals just need to come to grips with the FACT that we're there in Iraq and we're not leaving anytime soon. You all need to take up a new hobby other than supporting terror-sponsoring and resolution-violating regimes. Try knitting or something.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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You have voted Rasputin13 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Enough said.






West Point, Out.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 05:28 AM
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Yes it is true we had been bombing Iraq all the time due to sanctions but not an all out assault of 100 planes attacking a country, that usually happens in war maybe, but not sanctions. And lets not forget that Congress did not vote for war until a month later. Not only that but there was no press coverage. Looks a little fishy to me.



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 08:43 PM
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I actually remember talking about that air attack when it happened, Bout Time said something to the effect of we were softening them up (for what was to come).

Anyway - that whole no fly zone has been often discussed here, or rather its legitimacy. Let us not forget that France was also at one point patrolling the no-fly zone with the US and UK and how the kurds prospered under our protection.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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With a MINIMUM of 14 personel per aircraft, plus the logistics of fuel, weapons, and transport, and hundreds of thousands, if not many millions of witnesses....

.....and NOTHING in the news or blogs about this?

Cripes, get real. This didn't happen.


*edit* Not to mention the way less than credible link.


[edit on 13-6-2005 by Army]



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Army
With a MINIMUM of 14 personel per aircraft, plus the logistics of fuel, weapons, and transport, and hundreds of thousands, if not many millions of witnesses....

.....and NOTHING in the news or blogs about this?

Cripes, get real. This didn't happen.

*edit* Not to mention the way less than credible link.



Considering the dollar amount per day being spent since the Iraq invasion started, you lend yourself no credence with that statement.

Misfit



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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The site below has a list of coalition strikes during the pre-war years:
www.globalsecurity.org...
www.globalsecurity.org...

Look at the different years in the sidebar and notice how they spiked as soon a Bush went into office. Keep in mind that most of the 2001 attacks were pre-911

There's a long list of previous operations here:
www.globalsecurity.org...


EDIT: here's another one called Operation Southern Focus:


www.globalsecurity.org...

In response to Iraqi violations of the Southern No-Fly Zone, and in preperation for Operation Iraqi Freedom, CENTCOM and CENTAF conducted a number of airstrikes against Iraq that were part of an operation known as Southern Focus. The goal of Southern Focus was to systematically degrade the Iraqi air defense system prior to the initiation of a Coalition invasion. Essentially, Southern Focus was a significant air campaign designed to prepare the battlefield prior to the initiation of the ground campaign.

While Southern Focus was not a publicly declared operation, coalition air forces dropped 606 bombs, responding to 651 attacks from June 2002 until OIF began March 19, 2003. Press accounts at the time, both from CENTCOM and by the Department of Defense contended that the significant increase in airstrikes during this period were simply part of the ongoing Southern Watch operation.


An operation to prepare for an invasion and it began in June 2002.
606 bombs in 9 months.
That's 17 bombs per week on average in the nine months leading up to the war.

[edit on 13-6-2005 by AceOfBase]




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