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I got a great idea that will benefit the detained terrorists as well as future detainees.

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posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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lets all designate them as prisoners of war, in that case until the war on terror is over, the prisoners must be under our control and the war could last for decades or even a century, many of these prisoners are about 20, 30 or 40 years old, so by the time the war is over, they be in their 80s 90s or even 100 years old, by that time they cant do anithing in their physical condition and will be no threat to America and other nations.

also we should remember that they deserve to be designated as prisoners of war is...

1. they cant afford uniforms so they have to wear just wats on them
2. they dont like the current uniforms in the world cause they are uncomfortable.
3. they dont like to dress in uniforms because it reveals them as enemies to the naked eye and they prefer to hide among the civilian population, think of them as special forces.
4. their hierarchy is like Osama is commander in chief and he has lieutenants.
5. they use military weaponry (besides the use of airplanes lets just leave that out).
6. they declare war or jihad which is military war.

so in anicase the detainees in Gutmo Bay and other secret sites should be designated as prisoners and treated accordingly and interrogeted for information and that they will be in our hands till the enemy is killed, surrendered, or made truce, which could take decades.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by deltaboy]




posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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I think the lawyers have already gone over the fine points.

Tell me this, you believe them all to be guilty. Some, it has been proven are not. Do you believe those innocents should be held until they're 100 yrs old?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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That's the frightening thing, to me....

The majority haven't been charged with anything, let alone tried and convicted. Yet it's obvious that many of us have already condemned them all as guilty of (whatever crime).

If anything, affording them POW status would actually help them in many cases - they'd certainly have more rights than they do currently....though I suspect that's not the point of your original post!

How have you, out of interest, decided the guilt or innocence in these cases?


[edit on 6-6-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
That's the frightening thing, to me....

The majority haven't been charged with anything, let alone tried and convicted. Yet it's obvious that many of us have already condemned them all as guilty of (whatever crime).

If anything, affording them POW status would actually help them in many cases - they'd certainly have more rights than they do currently....though I suspect that's not the point of your original post!

How have you, out of interest, decided the guilt or innocence in these cases?


Interesting comments, Tinkleflower.

We have got to classify these people as something and treat them accordingly! Remember, they are PEOPLE, too! With families who love them.

People assume they are all guilty b/c they're ragheads and they do not see them as human beings, either. Why? Because the administration, the Pentagon and the media have TOLD people to see them that way.

If America cannot/won't defend the civil rights of human beings, even those we have detained, we have lost every ounce of what made this country great. It's more than disturbing. The bottom line is this: If they do this to those people, YOU and I could be next.

[edit on 6/6/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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I've got a better idea. Lets do this:

1. If a person is captured in a war zone, and that person is carrying a weapon, is caught in a the act of military support, or in any act of military hostility, and that person is wearing a uniform, lets treat that person as a POW.

2. If a person is captured in a war zone, and that person is not carrying a weapon, or is not caught in a the act of military support, or in any act of military hostility, and is not wearing a uniform, but is somehow suspected of criminal or hostile conduct or support, lets turn that person over to the Iraqi authorities and let them sort it out.

3. Finally, if a person is captured in a war zone, and that person is carrying a weapon, is caught in the act of military support, or in any act of military hostility, and that person is not wearing a uniform, lets tie that person's hands behind their back, stand them up against he wall, and treat them as a spy or terrorist according to the laws of warfare........

In all three cases there would be no more need for a GITMO, would there?

The problem isn't how we are treating these "detainees", its how we are obtaining them in the first place. The leftists and pacifists of this world are doing everything they can to take the teeth out our military's bite, and this is the end result. You either treat them as POWs, treat them as local criminals, or you shoot them as spies. Simple.





[edit on 6-6-2005 by Pyros]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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My friend, the problem in all of this is how the administration went about it all. They declared this whole "war on terror" to be unlike anything man has ever known and have thus created their own rules - that make sense to nobody.


To borrow from BillHicksRules - this administration shouldn't be allowed to run a 7-11, let alone a war machine.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
lets all designate them as prisoners of war, in that case until the war on terror is over, the prisoners must be under our control and the war could last for decades or even a century, many of these prisoners are about 20, 30 or 40 years old, so by the time the war is over, they be in their 80s 90s or even 100 years old, by that time they cant do anithing in their physical condition and will be no threat to America and other nations.



The WHOLE POINT of calling them detainees is to NOT call them prisoners of war. If we call them POWs, then we have to abide by the Geneva Convention. That is something the US does NOT want to do!! This way, we can hold them indefinatley without charge.

I think it's very interesting that you automatically call them all terrorists simply because they are being "detained".



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
The WHOLE POINT of calling them detainees is to NOT call them prisoners of war. If we call them POWs, then we have to abide by the Geneva Convention. That is something the US does NOT want to do!! This way, we can hold them indefinatley without charge.

I think it's very interesting that you automatically call them all terrorists simply because they are being "detained".


1. Exactly.

2. Americans are socialized to think in this way (through the media).

Folks, just 'cos you hear something on the nightly "news" does NOT make it true.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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"Guantanamo has, in fact, turned out to be a windfall for America's Afghan confederates. According to Pakistani detainees, the U.S. military paid the Northern Alliance $5,000 for each captive who confessed to being a Taliban and $20,000 for each purported al-Qaeda fighter. With that incentive, the prisoners claim the allied commanders grabbed any Pakistani wandering dazed around the battlefield, then extracted confessions by force."

" only eight of the 58 Pakistani detainees had genuine links with al-Qaeda"

www.time.com...

Every 8 Guilty we have 50 innocent people, how many people are their there?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Every 8 Guilty we have 50 innocent people, how many people are their there?


Good question.

I have a question for you Deltaboy. How would you feel if it was YOUR countrymen being snatched up like that and whisked off to some foreigners lairs to be tortured? I'm asking you this in all seriousness.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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I have a question for you Deltaboy. How would you feel if it was YOUR countrymen being snatched up like that and whisked off to some foreigners lairs to be tortured? I'm asking you this in all seriousness.


I think deltaboy sees the point. The amazing thing to me is how many people really believe those people are all terrorists because the US government deemed they should be put in detention camps. Interestingly, not even the government calls them terrorists. They simply call them "detainees". It's almost as if society is turning into lemmings.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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(snip)

Interesting comments, Tinkleflower.

We have got to classify these people as something and treat them accordingly! Remember, they are PEOPLE, too! With families who love them.

People assume they are all guilty b/c they're ragheads and they do not see them as human beings, either. Why? Because the administration, the Pentagon and the media have TOLD people to see them that way.

If America cannot/won't defend the civil rights of human beings, even those we have detained, we have lost every ounce of what made this country great. It's more than disturbing. The bottom line is this: If they do this to those people, YOU and I could be next.

[edit on 6/6/05 by EastCoastKid]

Yup, exactly. Part of the reason there IS such widespread anti-Western thought is this exact reason. We have a tendency to dehumanize virtually anyone who is caught up in any Middle East-based conflict and political situation. This is misguided and incredibly foolish on our part, and by doing so, we're only proving "them" correct - that we are indeed a culture of self-righteous, arrogant idiots who cannot fathom different ideals, desires and cultural needs.

And of course there's the worrying implication that what is happening in Gitmo has become so acceptable to us that we no longer even react to allegations of abuse or human rights issues.

That terrifies me.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
That terrifies me.


Far too many Americans are asleep at the wheel.


It'll bite us all on the backside one of these days. And by that time, I'm afraid it will be too late.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Odium
Every 8 Guilty we have 50 innocent people, how many people are their there?


Good question.

I have a question for you Deltaboy. How would you feel if it was YOUR countrymen being snatched up like that and whisked off to some foreigners lairs to be tortured? I'm asking you this in all seriousness.


it will be just like during the Vietnam war where soldiers were captured and tortured for information. as long as they dont kill them, they are prisoners of war, in dis case if u are captured by Al Qaeda army in their rules u will be filmed then have yer head cutted off and be on the nearest road where people can see yer decapitated body.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
it will be just like during the Vietnam war where soldiers were captured and tortured for information. as long as they dont kill them, they are prisoners of war, in dis case if u are captured by Al Qaeda army in their rules u will be filmed then have yer head cutted off and be on the nearest road where people can see yer decapitated body.


Welcome to your thread, deltaboy.


What if you discovered the rats that cut your buddies head off were actually agents provocateurs? Meaning: friendlies working a pretext?

You did not answer my question, btw. I am still waiting.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
You did not answer my question, btw. I am still waiting.


then i be okay with the prisoners being tortured, since North Vietnam was desperate for information on our military capabilities and the use of propaganda. thats just how war is, i know u feel sorry for ani prisoner of war on ani side being tortured but thats how war is, and many soldiers on ani side probably like to break that rule. in this case American soldiers like to break some rules.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
then i be okay with the prisoners being tortured, since North Vietnam was desperate for information on our military capabilities and the use of propaganda. thats just how war is, i know u feel sorry for ani prisoner of war on ani side being tortured but thats how war is, and many soldiers on ani side probably like to break that rule. in this case American soldiers like to break some rules.


So what you are saying is that you are ok with your enemy torturing your troops who have been captured?


[edit on 6/6/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Just some things to mention,

I agree with many observations and suggestions on this thread and some even make me laugh that we even have to discuss.

This is a war ! And like someone else mentioned, this is a different war in a different time period with different people (culture, beliefs and radicals).
We have not experienced before in a military setting what is happening now. Vietnam was bad in it's self. There is way too much to discuss there but I think that we can aknowledge the similarities going on with the urban warefare.

But with that said we are fighting a force that we have never encountered before. Some believe it's a spiritual force. Some believe it's radicalism throughout islam. Whatever the case may be we have to admit that we are not fighting on the same grounds and terms as the enemy.

We are not the ones chopping heads off of inocent people !
We are not the ones running around with boms strapped to our backs.
We are not the ones starpping bombs to inocent children.
We are not the infidels of this earth like the east portrays us to be.
We are not the ones killing on the street because they don't beleive the way we do.
And on and on the lsit goes.


This is in fact a different war and we are going to be in it now for the long hall whether or not we agree or disagree !

As far as the traetment of the prisoners or detanies, why do we even know what's going on over there in the first place ? Media !

The media is to blame for this. It's a war. Maybe as civilians we shouldn't know everything ? Just a thought ? We didn't have the prevelant media in the other past wars spreading propaganda like we have today. Another reason for the negativism towards bush. As a country during WW1&2 for example there was still a lot patriotism going on here in the US because we didn't know every little detail and surley didn't broadcast it on the airwaves worlwide to the enemy to get a hold of let alone our own cicilians.

Do we really believe that this is the first time during war that we have not treated prisoners accordingly ? Is this the first time that the enemy hasn't treated us accordingly ?

I am in know way condoning the actions of a very selected few people in the military that have abused others. But as far as pissing on the kuran or taking pictures of the enemy in uncompromising positions-That's far from abuse my friends ! I think to fully understand this you need to understand what it takes to break down the minds of people to get information. Tactics like these and others have been used for many years in many different parts of the world. And I am sure that the third world countries that haven't even heard of the term Geneva or if they did they have no reason to adhere to it anyway, treat our prisoners a lot more inhumanly.

Anyway back to the topic at hand-I personally know of a couple japanese families that were detained here in the US and have talked to them. They obviously didn't like it. But they all did say that they for the most part were in fact treated with respect and dignity. The problem was picking up the pcs of their lives. But they all have and have made a great life for them and there children here in the US and they wouldn't give it up for nothing !

Well just some things to add and think about ?





posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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I appreciate you taking the time to post your comments. Now a few of my own..



This is a war ! And like someone else mentioned, this is a different war in a different time period with different people


Do you have military experience? If so, any in a theater of combat?

There is nothing different here. They like you to believe that, tho. Terrorism has been around as long as the Cedars of Lebanon have been growing.



Whatever the case may be we have to admit that we are not fighting on the same grounds and terms as the enemy.

We are not the ones chopping heads off of inocent people !
We are not the ones running around with boms strapped to our backs.......etc....


That is rhetoric. If you want to understand a deeper truth, look into Rumsfeld's PG02 group. They have instigated much of what you listed, along with friendly (foreign) counterparts.

I'm not saying there aren't terrorists. I'm not saying there are no Iraqi insurgents. I AM saying that it's not all them. Before you answer back, look into the group I mentioned. If you can't find anything and you're interested, send me a u2u.



The media is to blame for this.


The media shares the blame for allowing Bush to spread his pre-war lies (remember, WMD, anyone?) The media, in general, was a cheerleader, passive and unquestioning.

The media is not to blame for anything that Rumsfeld's Pentagon or Bush's White House is responsible for (abandoning the Geneva Conventions). If you believe that, you might wanna step AWAY from the Rush Limbaugh radio.. you're getting a very distorted version of what happened and what is happening.



I am in know way condoning the actions of a very selected few people in the military


As we used to say in the Army, shyte rolls down hill.

That whole 'a few bad apples' story is pure CRAP.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
[
So what you are saying is that you are ok with your enemy torturing your troops who have been captured?


[edit on 6/6/05 by EastCoastKid]


u can repeat wat i say but in anicase ill be ok dat the soldiers are torture by the enemy for information. thats just war. u do anithing u can to win. and i understand the enemy's attempt to try to win a war for survival. as long as they dont kill them.







 
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