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Is MENSA a secret society...?

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posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by KyuudoushaMENSA is not a secret society, I realise that. The question should have read

'Is MENSA a spring board for joining secret societies?'


ROFL! No!!!!!

Nor are we actively recruited by anyone.

I think you're confusing "genius" with "polymath." Polymaths are good (at a professional level) in more than one subject (yes, I'm also a polymath.) Polymaths can be of average intelligence (the girl down the street who sold several short stories and and sings in a band and also paints and has her work displayed in local galleries and also belongs to a rocket club and has won a number of competitions and who teaches junior high school science would be an example of a polymath. But you don't have to be a genius to do any of those.)

Just because you're a genius does not mean you have a good deal of book learning or that you're mentally/emotionally stable and able to stay on task. You can have geniuses who can't even read, who may not be able to construct even the simplest machine or understand the principles of physics.

A PhD in physics with an IQ of 120 is far more valuable than an uneducated scatterbrain with an IQ of 180.



This is partly my point. If MENSA has no purpose then why go to all the trouble of devising such a large organisation just to say that your IQ is better than other peoples?

Because it's a very very good place to find a spouse who won't freak out about you. Abilities such as being a professional level chess player (particularly if you're a woman) are not sneered at or belittled. And it's finally comfortable to be around people who don't think you're weird or a freak or some sort of monster.


Again, if IQ is not a measure of how clever you are, what exactly, does it measure?

Capacity to learn and synthesize. If someone handed both of us material on... ah... mapping th DNA of ancient cave bears (something that I know next to nothing about), then I would learn the material about 20% faster than most people can and might pull in information from other fields that I know about (behavior studies) to draw some unusual conclusions that might become testable hypotheses or research problems.

Another example: I'm getting a Masters' in Anthropology. Most students have problems thinking of one research project to conduct. I have a list of 80 of them, and the list grows all the time. We all know the same material (I learned it a bit faster since they're all quite bright people) but I'm able to synthesize it in more unusual ways.

But the best students in the departments have IQs of around 120 and they crack the books constantly. They're superb. I'm sloppy and off-the-wall.

See the difference?

[edit on 7-6-2005 by Byrd]




posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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ROFL! No!!!!!


Well I'm glad I managed to brighten somebodies day! I do hope you did not damage anything whilst convulsing about the shagpile...



Nor are we actively recruited by anyone.


Maybe, maybe not. I assume you can only say this about your immediate circle. Even then that's if they decided to tell you.


I think you're confusing "genius" with "polymath." Polymaths are good (at a professional level) in more than one subject (yes, I'm also a polymath.) Polymaths can be of average intelligence (the girl down the street who sold several short stories and and sings in a band and also paints and has her work displayed in local galleries and also belongs to a rocket club and has won a number of competitions and who teaches junior high school science would be an example of a polymath. But you don't have to be a genius to do any of those.)

Just because you're a genius does not mean you have a good deal of book learning or that you're mentally/emotionally stable and able to stay on task. You can have geniuses who can't even read, who may not be able to construct even the simplest machine or understand the principles of physics.

A PhD in physics with an IQ of 120 is far more valuable than an uneducated scatterbrain with an IQ of 180.


I'm confused now though as I don't recall mentioning the word genius anywhere in the thread so far. I'm really sorry but even though your point was very eloquently put I'm struggling to see the relevance to the topic.


Because it's a very very good place to find a spouse who won't freak out about you. Abilities such as being a professional level chess player (particularly if you're a woman) are not sneered at or belittled. And it's finally comfortable to be around people who don't think you're weird or a freak or some sort of monster.


So you're telling me that MENSA is just a pick up joint for wierdo, freaky monsters...


Capacity to learn and synthesize. If someone handed both of us material on... ah... mapping th DNA of ancient cave bears (something that I know next to nothing about), then I would learn the material about 20% faster than most people can and might pull in information from other fields that I know about (behavior studies) to draw some unusual conclusions that might become testable hypotheses or research problems.


...and that you're 20% smarter than the average bear...


Another example: I'm getting a Masters' in Anthropology. Most students have problems thinking of one research project to conduct. I have a list of 80 of them, and the list grows all the time. We all know the same material (I learned it a bit faster since they're all quite bright people) but I'm able to synthesize it in more unusual ways.


...but only 'a bit' faster than 'quite bright' people.


But the best students in the departments have IQs of around 120 and they crack the books constantly. They're superb. I'm sloppy and off-the-wall.

See the difference?


Well, I now know the difference between a "polymath" and a "genius" for which I am grateful. However, I struggle to see where all this was leading to with regards to the angle of 'secret societies'.

Joccularity aside for a moment though:

You state that MENSA members are not actively recruited by anyone. Fair enough, although I pretty much hate everyone that make sweeping generalisations. If they WERE recruited, would they tell anyone? Surely the very nature of "secret societies" is that they are seceret. So your mensan chums probably wouldn't have told you if they had been recruited.





[edit on 8-6-2005 by Kyuudousha]

[edit on 8-6-2005 by Kyuudousha]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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"then I would learn the material about 20% faster than most people can and might pull in information from other fields that I know about (behavior studies) to draw some unusual conclusions that might become testable"

I don't see how DNA mapping any thing tells you about behavioral studies, but maybe thats because I don't have a doctorate in anthropology.

Does reading equal learning to you, or what is it exactly that you would learn 20% faster? Whats written between the lines?

You really think the essence of a bear long extinct can be summed up with a string of numbers representing amino acids, but giving no answer to WHY the bear existed?

Thats smart, alright.

Basically, what you are saying is that MENSA is about feeling accepted. And who would you rather be accepted by, than some people you don't know, have never met, but they are not better than everyone else, just different.

I knew a long long time ago that being smart is showing a face to the world, a mask. Even when you become aware of someone else's mask not 'hiding' perfectly, you just smile and pretend you don't see it. Business as usual.

Was MENSA around for the JFK assassination?

9/11?

And what was their consensus? Or does their intelligence allow them to theorize endlessly, how it is that a checkmate is possible in the form:

Pawn takes King,

We just let our guard down. Thanks MENSA, you guys are doing us a world of good.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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Was MENSA around for the JFK assassination?

9/11?


Yes it was. It was founded in 1949 I believe.

Certianly the 'sec socs' were around for those.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 04:48 AM
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And what was their consensus? Or does their intelligence allow them to theorize endlessly, how it is that a checkmate is possible in the form:

Pawn takes King,

We just let our guard down. Thanks MENSA, you guys are doing us a world of good.


Oh dear, didn't we let you in then...?



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Heavens no!

At least in the land of steady habits, Mensans are an incredibly dull conclave of self-important people with delusions of Steven Hawkings....

I have been told that there are Mensan chapters that aren't so annoying, but no personal experience with them. Took the test, passed, very rapidly passed when I discovered tested intelligence was considered to be carte blanche to be rude....



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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You know for a thread about mensa i seem to be seeing a lot of thought lacking answers and comments. Mensa is nothing special it only takes an I.Q. of 135 to get in and most people with an iq of 180 that are scatterbrains...... yeah where the hell did that come from i haven't met anyone with 180 I.Q. that's a scatter brain they just focus on what holds there interest. Myself i got a 140 on the I.Q. test for mensa and was accepted I just didn't have the mebership fee, and i was hungover, sleep deprived and just smoked a joint lol. My mind could have been a bit sharper academicly.

Anyway my opinion of mensa is just somewhere you can congregate and converse with your full vocabulary and not have to worry about some dimwhit going "huh".

As for it being a recruiting ground for secret societies why don't you join and find out if you get recruited that's the only way your gonna know because nobody's gonna say " yeah, I joined mensa and now im a third rank in the masons or illuminati". More likely you and I will know nothing of it and neither will anyone else in mensa for that matter. So if somebody claims there friend got recruited into a secret society through mensa I would put most of my money on betting there a complete liar.....If I gambled, but I don't cause I have virtues I adhere to.

Oh by the way I mean nothing offensive in any of my statements, I just wanted to ramble for a while. What you should do if you have questions about mensa is go here.

Mensa.org



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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while it is possible I seriously doubt it.
The idea that ats has a high ratio of above average IQ's is a fair assumption considering that it requires a certain type of thinking and level of intelligience to challenge and discuss certain topics that other people ignore.
I have the ability to join mensa if I choose to.. however I choose not to for reasons that I also choose to not go into.

There is a small possibility that while Mensa itself is NOT a secret society.. some may recruit from its members



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Ooops. I forgot to check for replies. Some late replies...


You state that MENSA members are not actively recruited by anyone. Fair enough, although I pretty much hate everyone that make sweeping generalisations. If they WERE recruited, would they tell anyone? Surely the very nature of "secret societies" is that they are seceret. So your mensan chums probably wouldn't have told you if they had been recruited.


If they had been recruited, then they would be actively recruiting others into the society. And there would be information about some other level with restrictive membership levels.

There are other high IQ societies:
www.faqs.org...

I am also personally familiar with Intertel.
I



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Does reading equal learning to you, or what is it exactly that you would learn 20% faster? Whats written between the lines?


No, reading isn't the same as learning. It's just one way of learning. And the answer is that I could learn anything faster than most people can.


Basically, what you are saying is that MENSA is about feeling accepted. And who would you rather be accepted by, than some people you don't know, have never met, but they are not better than everyone else, just different.

Yes and no. Yes, it's about being accepted. But it's also about being able to communicate with others.


Was MENSA around for the JFK assassination?

Yesl


9/11?



And what was their consensus?

Dunno. I wasn't a member during either of those periods. I suspect their consensus is the same as you'd find if you walked on a college campus and asked the first 60 people you saw about the same questions.



Or does their intelligence allow them to theorize endlessly, how it is that a checkmate is possible in the form: Pawn takes King,

Yes, it allows them to theorize endlessly.

Sorry, whatever analogy you're trying for isn't working, because "pawn takes king" is not possible in chess. King can't move into a position where he would be checked and the only way for a pawn to take a king is to be right next to him (not allowed because the king would have to enter into the check zone.)

(I used to play chess professionally. For a brief time. 30 years ago. I'm long out of practice.)



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 09:10 AM
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Sure you qualified for Mensa but decided not to join. It is always interesting how people are so interested in Mensa that they get tested or go to lengths to find out if they may qualify from prior testing, and then claim that they qualify but decided not to join. Admit it, you did not qualify, it doesn't make you a bad person, just an unqualified person, one of the lower 98.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Sure you qualified for Mensa but decided not to join. It is always interesting how people are so interested in Mensa that they get tested or go to lengths to find out if they may qualify from prior testing, and then claim that they qualify but decided not to join. Admit it, you did not qualify, it doesn't make you a bad person, just an unqualified person, one of the lower 98.
Actually, I qualified by my SAT score... It's not like there's any particular effort involved in knowing scores above X for SAT taken between these years qualifies one for Mensa membership. Hell, I knew that years before there was even a WWW at cern. And no, I didn't join.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Sure you qualified for Mensa but decided not to join. It is always interesting how people are so interested in Mensa that they get tested or go to lengths to find out if they may qualify from prior testing, and then claim that they qualify but decided not to join. Admit it, you did not qualify, it doesn't make you a bad person, just an unqualified person, one of the lower 98.


Spoken like a true MENSA member who is a reject at everything else in life. I too could qualify to join MENSA - as I went to a high school where they tested our IQs. When I looked into it, it turns out its nothing more than a very pompous "social club" for people to talk about how smart they think they are. Amazingly, most of its members are relatively unaccomplished. And it shows from people like you who think its some sort of accomplishment and enjoy thinking very highly of yourself.

There is a reason why mentally retarded people can score high enough to get in MENSA. IQ is not a measure of intelligence.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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My lovely wife is in MENSA and I'm an idiot.
So far as I can tell, the only benefit she ever got out of it, is preferential rates on credit card offers.



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Mensa is a social organization only.

American Mensa serves as a kind of umbrella organization for special interest groups (SIGs) that range from everything from discussion groups, to book clubs, to photography groups to nudists.

There is nothing secret about it, except that members might have secrets among themselves as anyone can.

SIGs must be registered with American Mensa to be sanctioned by Mensa.

I was a member for years, but I only attended two Mensa organized activities.

I was never so bored in my life.

I can have interesting activities with interesting people without having to pay dues or carry a membership card.

Mainly, I left because the monthly magazine became morally offensive to me.

Trust me. IQ has nothing in common with maturity and good taste, or even good sense.

[edit on 2008/7/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
My lovely wife is in MENSA and I'm an idiot.
So far as I can tell, the only benefit she ever got out of it, is preferential rates on credit card offers.


Oh REALLY! This must be new from when I was a member over 20 years ago.

Perhaps I should rejoin?



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Kyuudousha

Originally posted by Trinityman

Okay, admittedly I worded the question badly, no, completely wrong in fact.

MENSA is not a secret society, I realise that. The question should have read

'Is MENSA a spring board for joining secret societies?'

I still believe that many 'secret societies' exist with their core beliefs being to unravel esoteric mysteries. With that in mind, where would you go to recruit such members that would have a certain way of looking at the world? Wouldn't it be interesting if you could set up an organisation which could lay down a test of some description to find the sort of people you're looking for? As Alias101 pointed out 'just because I have a high IQ doesn't make me smart'. So, what exactly is your IQ measuring and what exactly are they looking for?


I gave up membership when I became an employee of American Mensa in New York. I do not see it as a spring board for anything, rather a place where those with high IQs can denigrate those without. And as for them being able to unravel any mysteries, if it isn't physical or mathematical, you won't find many MENSA members interested. Isaac Asimov was a member.

Contrary to secret societies unraveling esoterica, they more than likely embody them in symbology and ritual. Although I cannot think of any MENSA secret handshake, the Freemasons do have many "secrets" that are only disclosed to those that reach a certain "degree".

Finally, IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient and was at one time thought to be indicative of one's capacity to be intelligent. Having a high IQ doesn't always indicate that the person is smart. Just that they are capable of being so.



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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I had to laugh when I read the title of this thread.

I went to several of the Kansas City meetings/picnics back in the mid 80's. Group had a KC Police captain, as I recall, as the chairman.

Hardly a group, it was a strange and weird group, but not secret group.

Byrd, you better keep an eye on this thread... it may expose the rest.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Kyuudousha
Generalities abound here, but still:

Many 'secret societies' revolve around the understanding of and the furthering of esoterical teachings.

When you look at MENSA they take great pains to let you know that your IQ is NOT a measure of how 'clever' you are but rather a measure of how your brain works.

If I was the Grand BooBah of some secret society and I was in need of new members who were good at working out certain things where would I go to recruit them?

At first glance then MENSA would seem as good a place to start as any other...

Any thoughts?

[edit on 6-6-2005 by Kyuudousha]


You mean like a cult masquerading as a high IQ society which has a hard core of pagan neo nazis who advocate ethnic cleansing and a eugenics program?

www.nowpublic.com...




posted on Apr, 5 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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Some personal thoughts.

First of all as some people said, intelligence does not equal knowledge.
If you have the potential to be the world's best doctor but never studied it, you can't perform surgery.

high intelligence can make you understand things better than others. this is true and wrong at the same time. depends on our view about intelligence.
intelligence and IQ are very vague words. Think of our brain's capabilities like a pie chart. There are no useless things in it and there are many different things it can do.

Some brains have a bigger slice of one thing while other brains have a bigger/smaller slice of something else.
There are many and different IQ tests. and IQ by itself doesn't really say too much about someone.

Someone can be better at something while worse at something else. One with lower IQ can be unimaginably better at something than someone with way higher IQ.

For instance i have a mensa iq of around 160(can get a perfect mensa test score) but i have problems concentrating. a very bad memory. I can't draw, i can't do complicated calculations on my head because i can forget from where i started(i can even forget what i was looking for).or i get distracted by other thoughts. i have limited multitasking.
I do have my pros though.
That means my brain has a bigger slice of that pie on certain things but i do lack on many others.

There are people with way lower IQ that have photographic memory, that can do very difficult calculations in their head, very fast. that can speak 20 languages. that can do insane multitasking. People who can do extraordinary things.

A person can have a lower than average IQ, but can have a certain ability, a gift in which he is extraordinary. If an IQ test was made, that was using that gift as a measurement of IQ, then said person would have a very high iq.

So... an IQ test measures. and the IQ they "give" you is only a direct measurement of what they measure.
IQ by itself does not measure a persons value, or all of his gifts.
There are already different tests that measure different things but we call all of them IQ, and that's wrong.

Our brain is a marvelous thing, and it's a pity to use one word to scale an individuals intellectual abilities.There are so many things, usefull and important things an average iq test can't see.

On the other hand... as things are now, a person who is given a high iq through the average IQ tests used usually, has a very high chance of having a very developed part of his brain which is responsible for understanding(aka connecting the dots). Which is no small feature.
(that is actualy something that is hard to be understood unless you have it. is like trying to explain the taste of eggs to someone who never ate eggs.)


Now about the thread's topic. I am not a member of mensa. But mensa is by no means a "secret" society.It is private yes, but the entrance score to enter mensa, through the mensa test is not very high. they take people over the 98th percentile. 2%, but if you consider the earths population, it's a large number of potential people. and mensa has a lot of members already.
There are of course other private groups in which you can enter only if you have a high iq. Some of which need a way higher "IQ score" to enter. Of course Mensa is acknowledged enough so it could be used by third parties to scout people. Since it has a wide number of people and is widely known.
Again a lot of people join Mensa just for the acknowledgement that comes with it(aka brag rights.)

In my personal opinion, what i find attractive about mensa and the reason i will join it, is its private forums. In which various kinds of people are having conversations and are exchanging ideas and opinions. So i'm interested to see and take part in said conversations for my personal reasons.



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