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Zero-Point Energy Generation (Free energy)

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posted on Apr, 3 2009 @ 06:38 AM

Originally posted by beebs
reply to post by AnjeluvDeath

I fear you will never gain any more knowledge, AnjeluvDeath, with your current line you have drawn:

'No. Belief in God and Science are very different things.'

When they call it the GOD particle, did you think they were joking???

Well yes, actually. They certainly don't call it the 'god particle' because it hints a supernatural creator.

posted on May, 9 2009 @ 08:56 AM

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath
No. Belief in God and Science are very different things. I scientific truth can be both replicated and correctly predicted. You have neither example.

Agreed. Scientific truths should both be replicable and have predictive abilities. Our, or at least my, point here is that one can attack specific devices or designers but can not and should not dismiss possibilities and processes that science as we know it don't in fact discount.

I mean Possible and not IMPossible.
But have you ever seen it in practice and are you qualified to decide whether or not it was doing what it claimed?

Never observed any of the devices in operation but then , as you say, what use would that be any ways when you would/could never believe me because you believe it to be impossible? How can we discover something new when it's believed to be impossible by people who do not seem to have a firm grasp of the knowledge they are employing to arrive as such conclusions? What is most important to me is not my observations as much as it is the fact that science as we know have never explained where the source charges 'draws' the energy,.that is captured by the circuit, from. These scientist ( well most of the one's i discuss
) are proposing solutions to well known problems and contradictions and that's why we can't ignore them.

The Laws of Physics

The Laws of physics have been ignored ever since the dawn of the 'electric' age as we still have no non-contradictory explanation, in classical physics as it's taught now, for where the energy that powers our national networks comes from.

Because that is the defenition of Zero point energy. Perhaps you need some lessons.

Personally i don't consider vacuum energy extraction to be the same ( but it's oft held to be synonymous) as zero point extraction as frankly i don't understand ( who does?) the necessity for quantum physics or the conclusions reached, or presumed, to lend it descriptive power. Either way the mechanism suggested for 'tapping' zero point energy is as i understand very different.

If any of the above is true, then you should have no trouble convincing me with some evidence from somewhere. Maybe from that 'free' book.

Well they do say that when you get something for free you get exactly what you paid for ( ai, nothing) so i have some sympathy with the skepticism about free books.
Either way it has been a great read ( especially the parts i think i understood.
) and it has led me to the same primary sources the author employed. As for the 'evidence' i don't really know what you need to know so perhaps i can offer a basic quandary that highly respected scientist muse over by mostly ignore so as to not give themselves headaches or worse.

account obviously does not explain much about the circuit.
Indeed, in the Feynman lectures we read:4
‘‘We ask what happens in a piece of resistance
wire when it is carrying a current. Since the wire
has resistance, there is an electric field along it,
driving the current. Because there is a potential
drop along the wire, there is also an electric field
just outside the wire, parallel to the surface ~Fig.
27-5!. There is, in addition, a magnetic field
which goes around the wire because of the current.
The E and B are at right angles; therefore
there is a Poynting vector directed radially inward,
as shown in the figure. There is a flow of
energy into the wire all around. It is of course,
equal to the energy being lost in the wire in the
form of heat. So our ‘‘crazy’’ theory says that the
electrons are getting their energy to generate heat
because of the energy flowing into the wire from
the field outside. Intuition would seem to tell us
that the electrons get their energy from being
pushed along the wire, so the energy should be
flowing down ~or up! along the wire. But the
theory says that the electrons are really being
pushed by an electric field, which has come from
some charges very far away, and that the electrons
get their energy for generating heat from
these fields. The energy somehow flows from the
distant charges into a wide area of space and then
inward to the wire.’’ ~emphasis added!.

However, the result of such an application
and the resulting energy transfer in the circuit apparently did
not satisfy Feynman. He wrote: ‘‘this theory is obviously
nuts, somehow energy flows from the battery to infinity and
then back into the load, is really strange.’’4 Feynman, however,
did not persist and left the problem for others to find a
reasonable explanation. Can we say more about energy transfer
in this simple circuit?

How is energy 'conserved' when what is counted is merely what is being diverged into the primary system? Certainly one can enforce symmetry on a electrodynamic system and apply 'conservation' laws but what sense does it make when we KNOW that we are counting merely what we can observe to be powering loads/dissipated otherwise? Is that not just as ridiculous as it sounds?

I would be happy to learn but first I need to understand how it is that it is so readily available and yet somehow mysteriously impossible to find or implement or replecate?

Oh it's no more impossible to find than it is to find wind, sunlight,tides and rivers to employ towards creating renewable energy infrastructures yet that isn't being done either. What does our ability to 'find' stuff have to do with what our current economic/political system chooses to employ or resist? I think where our views diverge is in that you believe that science serves some greater 'truth' when it , like other mostly state/private, merely serves the interest of it's sponsors/financiers. You seem to hold the notion that the 'truth' ( scientific in this case) must and will come up where i don't have such a idealistic , well in my opinion, view of the world.

So yes, i could attempt to provide you with patents for what i believe to be working devices or even news paper clippings of state agency ( fire station and a few other) that is currently employing systems that seem to be over-unity but since such things are according to your views impossible they could hardly convince you. We will have to concentrate on the theory and physics as that's where you have become , in my opinion, misinformed enough to discount what you can observe to adhere to only what your view of reality dictates possible.


posted on May, 9 2009 @ 09:27 AM

Originally posted by DarkSecret
if there's too much regulation in the US, there are other countries around the world only too happy to take advantage of alternative energies which are safe. i strongly doubt that someone as bright as an inventor can be so limited and only try the US market!

I can perhaps agree that there are other countries where things are less regulated but wouldn't that just diminish the credibility of whatever you get certified? As for the claim that all inventors are bright i would argue that most inventors that come up with something revolutionary are merely unregulated; they didn't know that what they were trying were impossible or if so why.

the point is that you build a demo model, file for a patent and then try to sell it or build it yourself.

Just doing that would cost you a great deal of money and in most western countries attract a lot of attention; you are after all suggesting that all power stations and power distribution networks in the world is redundant.

there are plenty of patent lawyers out there that can hardly wait to help out.

And they do pro-bono work? More specifically how would they help you out when they must be qualified in the specific fields of your patent application and may possible be incapable of understanding it's functioning. How are they suppose to certify what isn't deemed 'possible' in most of their text books? Perhaps that better explains why revolutionary inventions are hard to patent; they aren't 'possible'?

i do not believe that any of the controversial energy sources are viable.

Viable in what way? Certainly not in the corporate wealth-concentrating system, no, but what on Earth does that 'prove' about it being possible or not? I mean centralized single payer ( government) health system in the US is also 'non-viable' but only with respect to how the private health industry uses it's power in government to undermine it.

Europe is having an energy crisis right now and they would probably pay a fortune to get out of that.

Your confusing what Europeans want with what their government will allow them to have. Europeans 'governments' have no energy crisis problem as you just increases taxes and prices until you pay the bills. For your argument to be useful ( or accurate) Europeans would have to have the power to directly participate in the decisions of government and be in possession of the scientific knowledge/agreement to realise that there energy dependence question serves the vested interest of financial/corporate sponsors of their central governments.

conspiracy? not really. just a bunch of honest mistakes or scams.

I find it striking how some always finds 'the people' conspiring against government ( yet millions starve) while corporations and governments seems utterly incapable of such ploys despite the proof of power as reflected by their profit/control margins.

For some conspiracy is truly just acceptable when it doesn't really change much about their world and doesn't include the 'ridiculous' proposition that they have been fooled and exploited in any way. Pride and arrogance enough to believe that we can 'uncover' the conspiracies of the little people but apparently not enough knowledge and integrity to suspect that we might be the victim of even grander deceptions.

The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. It was defined by Adolf Hitler in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf as a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".

Our collective small mindedness/ignorance ( 'We too could be millionaires if we just worked harder') is our biggest weakness and part of how we have always been , and continue to be, exploited.


posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:36 AM

Originally posted by AnjeluvDeath

Really? That is your try? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I do not think you have any clue about the scientific method or even what a "controlled environment" is. It is nice that you have your links and names to drop but the only reason that you believe zero point energy is impossible, but this kind of explains exactly why.

As far as why it is impossible? Nothing can be created or destroyed, only transformed. So either you are doing work to make energy or it is not doing anything. Stop trying to sell Youtube and crappy little books.

It seems to me the correct terminology would be "develops" energy.

A hydro-electric dam uses mechanics in the path of falling water to develop greater water force which in turn develops more mechanical energy. The sun may have put the water there, but the mechanical design of the dam generated the water force to spin the turbine.

A wind turbine uses mechanics in the path of wind to develop mechanical energy. The design, speed and size of the mechanics determines the mechanical energy developed.

When driving 60 mph and you lose a 5gram wheel weight you feel a vibration. That vibration is the force of inertia developed by your out of balance wheel and the energy in that inertia develeped is used up destroying the chasis of your car. This doesn't lower your gas mileage or efficiency of your car, its just a byproduct of the wheel being out of balance.

If we can figure out how to place mechancis in the path of an out of balance wheel to harness or capture the energy that destroys your chasis it will be the same thing. We have figured this out with air and water, solid objects are next, IMHO.

posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 01:21 PM
I thought Zero Point Energy was a conceptual term used to describe the maximum amount of entropic wave energy available within a thermodynamic bordered area? We know matter can be converted to energy through Fission and fusion processes E.G. the sun, stars and atomic bombs. This gives us the clue that matter is probably made up of complex superposed energy states/waves which behave as more dense particle superpositions due to quantum/electro/gravitation laws. The zero point energy research is about untangling the knot of superposed energy within a bordered thermodynamic area into all of its constituencies.

They have made a lot of progress probing subatomic structures using huge supercolliders that are so expensive countries have to pool their resources to afford them. The results are not intuitive and require a good math background to understand. The trend has been that as these machines get bigger and bigger they find smaller and smaller subatomic particles with lower constituent energies. I doubt there is anything like a Newtonian God particle building block. There probably is something like a quantum foam that could simply explain mass as well as all the electro/gravitational effects, but I wonder if such a discovery would end up being kept a secret for thousands of years...I'm sure at the very least such a discovery will require a paradigm shift on the part of the researcher.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:09 PM
I declare "Zero Point Energy" an impossible idea,
To be able to get ZPE in the way described (by sci-fi writers may i add!)
you would need to be able to master the ability to transverse dimensions/universes,
Which will never happen before the human race reaches its extinction year

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 09:33 AM
If ZPE is you think the energy powers of the world would let you develop it?

I think not, and you will be lying next to Jimmy Hoffa somewhere in the desert.


posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 11:25 AM
Nice 4 year bump on this thread!

I haven't read all the posts but for all you naysayers I can confirm that I have seen a working Quantum Vacuum Oscillator made in a semiconductor fab. You aren't going to be able to power anything from it and it is possible we never will however. It does oscillate continually using vacuum energy which could be considered free.

To see some other research on a similar system commissioned by NASA see here: Quantum Fields

Edit: 'Seen' doesnt mean I could see the beam moving (it was very small) but I could measure the differential capacitance between the beam and the walls. Pretty impressive but of no current practical use.

[edit on 23/12/2009 by LightFantastic]

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 11:48 AM
I don't know much about ZPE but this "out of phase" thing gets to me. We cannot actually measure a different phase of reality or move things to and from it. It is only a theory based on speculation not even observable evidence to my knowledge correct me if I am wrong.

I think this whole idea is barking up the wrong tree. I believe we CAN create a device that will give us Free Energy and I believe it can be done several ways, but plucking the energy out of a plane of reality we cannot acsess is not one of them.

I believe it can be done with magnets via magnetic fields. A magnetic field can exist in an electric current so it seems to me you could produce an electric current via a magnetic field - or manipulation of several magnetic fields.

What about Tesla? He harnessed the electric charge between the surface of the Earth and the atmosphere. He ran his magnetic motor car on this in public for over a week. We can see this voltage with a voltmeter on any large structure like a Tv antenna tower.

That this "Free Energy" exist is not disputed. Science will tell you that you cannot use this energy but I believe they either don't want us to know how or they honestly haven't figure it out because their model of how electicity works is flawed. What do you think about this?

[edit on 23-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 06:11 PM

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I believe it can be done with magnets via magnetic fields. A magnetic field can exist in an electric current so it seems to me you could produce an electric current via a magnetic field - or manipulation of several magnetic fields.

What about Tesla? He harnessed the electric charge between the surface of the Earth and the atmosphere. He ran his magnetic motor car on this in public for over a week. We can see this voltage with a voltmeter on any large structure like a Tv antenna tower.

A magnetic field can indeed induce an electric current - it is the principal behind generators.

If the reports are true I am unsure how Tesla achieved this feat. The earths field is about 100V per metre but it a very high impedance source - you cannot draw much current from it.

posted on May, 22 2012 @ 11:56 PM
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions

posted on May, 22 2012 @ 11:57 PM
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions

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