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Guilt Control by Religious leaders

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posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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A lot of Christian based religions push the Idea of "Origional Sin"
I would like to know what you think it is/was, and Why is it belived that we are accountable for it.

Keep in mind that G-D did say:
(Deuteronomy 24:16) - "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

(Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

So with that in mind, We are not accountable for the Sins of Adam - or anyone else - only our own short commings..




posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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It's just a form of control, all religions use them. If you don't live as they tell you you have to live then your either going to go to hell, rot in purgatory or reincarnate as a giant wedding cake in Ethiopia.

Everything you read or hear about god is an opinion. Thats ALL it is.

Your free to trust the creator of all things to lead you and speak to your heart, and your also free to do as you are told by the religious tyrants of this world and believe that you are unworthy of the next breathe you take.

Free the chains from your mind and the chains on your soul will vanish.

Wupy



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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That is why we have so many denominations of Christianity even when they worship the same God.

Everybody has his own interpretation and opinions of the bible teachings and writings.

Occurs if you don't agree with them then you are a non believer and will rot in hell or . . . you can go head and start you own denomination of church and find people that will agree with you.

Or like mrwupy said may reincarnate as a wedding cake in Ethiopia.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Original sin is the defiance of God. We are all born with it. It does not control any1. All you have to do is get baptized and your free of it.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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The original sin the best way to keep the masses stuck to religion for salvation.

(The doctrine of the original sin) declares that (man) ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge - he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil - he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor - he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire - he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which (The preachers) damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy - all the cardinal values of his existence.

By Ayn Rand.

Then you most ask why religion is doing everything it can to keep people ignorant.

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die”

So knowledge is sin and learning is evil. Guilt is the cornerstone of the church and fear is its steeple, when people become to educate it tends to stop believing in what the church tell them and then start to ask to many questions.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was singul at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me"


Many Jews and even Christians do not belive in original sin. There are differant degrees of this disbelief. Original sin has two main aspects: we have inherited a corrupt nature which leads us to commit sin, and we have inherited guilt, that is, we are condemned by Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden

Most people admit that we to some degree haev a corrupt nature that easily turns to sin, but very few understand that our nature is completly corrupt and we have no power to turn ourselves to God. Anyone who believes that our salvation is in part our own achievement must deny the doctrine of original sin, even though they may retain the term in a limited sense. This includes Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and Arminian Evangelicals. All of these belive that man as he is by nature retains some spiritual powers to do good or to cooperate in his conversion. They may disagree on the amount of power he has left.

They generally must also minimize inherited guilt. Catholics can accept original guilt because they believe baptism is a rememdy for original guilt. those evangelicals who deny infant baptism must also deny the seriousness of original guilt and speak of an age of innocense which denies the need of young children for baptism.

Many Christians deny original sin though it is taught in the new testement. The reason Jews deny original sin in the biblical sense, is not that it is not taught in the Old testament, but because it does not fit into thier way they attain salvation, which requires that people retain some natural spiritual powers.

Fear is a great motivator, but it isn't the best one

we should realise original sin is there so we do not become arrogent and think we can achive salvation on our own. But turn to God instead and belive that he can save us. Original sin and actual sins of thought, word, and action make us guilty and deserving of eternal punishment. ephesians 2:1-10 states both that we were dead in sin but also that we have been made alive in Christ. If we are very discouraged and in danger of despair because we cannot break entirely free from sin, it may be good to remind ourselves that we are by nature sinful and will not be able to overcome sin completely until we enter enternal life. God knows and understands our weakness and will hang on to us in spite of our sins. We should never, however, us this as an excuse to be lax or careless in our struggle against sin, for we never know when our judgement will be.

Some have allready pointed out that Original sin is used to make us weak and in need of a higher power, but i tell you the weakness of original sin should make us strong, in knowing that no matter how good or bad we are, we can belive in Christ and still be saved.

[edit on 6/5/2005 by Jehosephat]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by JehosephatFear is a great motivator, but it isn't the best one....


I think Niccolo Machiavelli would disagree with you on that.
Sorry, had to lighten the mood a little.
Whew! Y'all sure do tackle the big ones, don't ya!?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:43 AM
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I must admit that I am pleased to see a discussion of this nature without people getting all bent out of shape...

Your replies have given me a great deal to concider and contemplate.

I did once belive in origional Sin, then I stumbeled onto (Ezekiel 18:20) - "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity..."

That - to me - Says that Since the son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity we are free from it. Yes, the sin of "Disobayance to G-d" did take place, however, that was in the past and we are not held accountable for it.

Another bit of Doctorine that I have trouble with is the concept of eternal punishment.

I strongly question if any entity capable of the Sacrifice required by Christ to get us on the narrow road to rightusness - an entity capable of that amount of (Unconditional) Love and forgiveness could cast even his worst creation into eternal damnation. (Additionally I question if a human is capable of an offence of that magnitute)

I don't question our sinful nature, or our need for penance/repenting - as I think they are required to balance the books (per say).

Any Input?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:28 AM
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Well, Dancer.... I think you're on the right track there. As to original sin and it being passed on.... Sin (Heb. chata) is an term used in archery for missing or falling short of the target. What's our target? Well, Yeshua (Jesus) answered that -- love God and love your neighbor.

As an ex-Air Force puke who spent numerous hours on the rifle range I can tell you that missing or falling short of the target isn't as bad as walking off the rifle range and not bothering to qualify. "Hello, Fort Leavenworth!"

This is where iniquity (Heb. aon) comes into play. Aon means "to turn aside; to dwell elsewhere." Falling short of the target (sinning) is no biggy. Why? Because at least your TRYING to hit the target. What happens when you missing the target? Well, the Range Official (i.e., Holy Spirit) just comes over to you and tells you to remember your breath control (i.e., confess/admit to your shortcomings), sight alignment (i.e., repent and change your perspective) and trigger squeeze (i.e., do what needs done, that is to say, good works). Sin ain't no biggy....

Now then.... Throwing your rifle on the ground and walking off the rifle range in a huff and yelling at the Range Official and failing to qualify is gonna land you in some deep dukey PDQ! Still, inquity, this turning aside to dwell elsewhere, can be corrected and a working relationship with the Range Official can easily be restored -- after all the Range Official has seen it all before.

So, I just don't see how a father's iniquity can be passed onto his children. I can see where a poor example of markmanship might effect his children, but his kids always have the opition of going to or leaving the rifle range ... and they're free to follow their father's example or not ... as they will. So much for original sin....

For those who just don't give a flying flip and don't wish to "qualify" on the rifle range of life.... Well, that's their choice and I'm sure a place for them will be set aside until such time as they come to their senses, eh? Of course, some people are just plum sick and might just get off on eternal suffering. Who knows?


But seriously, for the Jewish take on this go to the following link and scroll down to "p. 376 ET," "p. 377 ET," and "p. 378 ET" :

www.freeminds.org...

[edit on 6-6-2005 by smadewell]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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I very much like the way you explained that...

Fantastic Analogy..

I thimk that a lot of sin comes from people who are unsatisfied with themselves, thus envy of those who have more and so on down the line.

I do also question if we should endevor to"Save" satan/lucifer for if we save them, then their works will fail and all will be free. (Alt - perhaps satan is G-d's way of showing us the light)



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