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Templars and Baphomet

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posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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This is true...i mean know one knows for sure. But it is interesting to think about. If anyone knows a better book on the subject, i'd love to read it.




posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
The founders descovered the truth about the Church and used this powerful knowlage to become rich and powerful.

Demonstrate this. If holy blood holy grail demonstrates this, then site the evidence. The Templars were a powerful military order, they didn't need some secret to becomepowerfull, they'd send their soldiers into and resistance and the soldiers would kill the enemy, thats the power they had. Knights, Horse, Steel and Forts.


They did indeed let Cathars join and many where high ranking in the order. This is because they did not agree with cathoilc beliefs.

Again, demonstrate any of this, cite the evidence.

It is better than the story you get from the Cathoilc Church.
So you beleive HB/HG because its a good and compelling story and because you don't like the RCC. Ok, thats not a good standard of evidence, infact its really just irrational and predjudiced thinking on the subject, but you are entitled to think that way.


If anyone knows a better book on the subject, i'd love to read it

A better book on the crusades than HB/HG?

egg mundane
Do we have any initial evidence (eg Writings, liturgical work, art work etc) giving use an idea of what they believed?

Its begining to look like, no, we really have nothing. We can assume that because they were an order of knights that they beleived in something like 'chivalry', but we can't show it. We can see that they are catholics, so we can assume that they had catholic religious beleifs, but we can't show it. We know that they were in the east, where groups like the Asassins and Unitarian Druzes and Sufis were around, and we can postulate that they got some esoteric philosophy from them, but we don't have anything that actually confirms this. I mean, the Knights Hospitaller were there too, and we see none of this, and the Teutonic Knights were there, and we see none of this.
But the Templars, well, there were some books and movies, so we see lots of attention and supposition, but little factual and rational consideration.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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These are thing that, indeed, I did read in "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". They are cited in the book. I agree that the book does jump to conclusions, but I think their is still a great deal of information in it.

I am of the opinion that the Roman Catholic Church did, indeed, try to hide the truth about history. This is an opinion that is widely agreed apon.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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it woudl seem that we have many speculations but very little facts to back it up with. Why would we not have much documentation abou a Historical group>>>?



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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Editing out double post.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by Majestic12]



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Egg Mundane
it woudl seem that we have many speculations but very little facts to back it up with. Why would we not have much documentation abou a Historical group>>>?


That is all there is in the world these days, speculation.

As far as the Templars, some information could've been lost. There are some reliable sources out there, such as www.templarhistory.com



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Egg Mundane
it woudl seem that we have many speculations but very little facts to back it up with. Why would we not have much documentation abou a Historical group>>>?

Why should there be? There are lots of groups out there that there isn't much information on, and, infact, there is a good deal of infor about the Templars, just not any from them about what they beleived.

boatphone
This is an opinion that is widely agreed apon.

Irrelevant. What evidence supports the accusation that the Templars weren't catholics and that the church wiped them out because of a 'secret' they had about jesus?



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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Hmm, no Templar documents stating what the Templars believed.

Thats almost like saying they didn't originate their ideas, beliefs, symbols, or methods. They were merely handed them, and put a new face on an old "bag of tricks" as it were.

The tricks do include philosophical insights, magical learnings, and ageless wisdom, but that doesn't mean that Templar disciples were taught any of this off the bat. In most likelihood, those who were soldiers benefitted little, other than the care they received from the Templars, and the armor they used (and horses) in battle.

But one thing I will tell you is, the Knights Templar rode two men to a horse, or more accurately, a boy and a man per horse.

Think about that, and realize the sacred sexual/religious nature of the order, underneath it all.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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I thought all that information about them being practioners of homosexuality were just lies?



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Here is an email that someone sent to me about this topic. She is really big into the Western Mystery Tradition...

~~~~~~~~~~~

The Goat of Mendes or Baphomet whom the Templars were accused of worshipping is a Goat Headed deity, being formed of both male and female principles, with a Caduceus of Mercury for its phallus. One arm points up and one down , with the latin ' Solve et Coagula' written on them. This is not the christian devil but a symbol of the ancient alchemists representing the fact that nature and natures God is a combination and balance of male and female forces, light and darkness, moisture and dryness. The very principle of Hermes Trismegitus; As Above So Below" is what is symbolized by Baphomet.

Another Goat headed deity worship by the ancient pagan Celtic peoples was Cernnunos the horned god of the Wood. Today in witchcraft covens the goat head is seen to symbolize this ancient deity.

Unfortunately to the those who remain in the dark, these goat deities are seen as something evil rather than as the symbol of the earth, fertility, the prima mater, and the first principle.

Freemasonry in its past like its predecessor the Knights Templar have been accused of being in league with the Devil, being a satanic tool etc. That has arisen from the fact that FreeMasons by their initiation into the Light have been eager to research and study the Mystical symbols of the past and present, without fear or irrational prejudice. In times past of religious persecution and superstition the Mystical Mason has treaded the path of heresy in search of the Light of Truth.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Egg Mundane
it woudl seem that we have many speculations but very little facts to back it up with. Why would we not have much documentation abou a Historical group>>>?

Why should there be? There are lots of groups out there that there isn't much information on, and, infact, there is a good deal of infor about the Templars, just not any from them about what they beleived.

boatphone
This is an opinion that is widely agreed apon.

Irrelevant. What evidence supports the accusation that the Templars weren't catholics and that the church wiped them out because of a 'secret' they had about jesus?


Well, Pope Clement V did wipe them out or try too, this is partly because the King of France wanted them out of France. IF the Templars were such good catholics, why did not the Pope just order them out of France or use them to help the Church or France become more powerful?? There is a great question that is very good evidence.....



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Sorry if this has been stated already but theres a fairly decent article about the Templers and the head of "Baphomet" that I thought was very interesting.

It's the latest World Explorer Magazine, Vol.4 No.1, you can buy it of course (six bucks) or as most people know you can wander down to B&N have a cuppa and just read the article.

It's called The truth Behind the Templar Heresy by Mark Amaru Pinkham.

Again it's all theory but it's very interesting.

Basically what the article says is that the head of baphomet was most likely John the Baptist again not new information and it's isn't at the heart of the article but the writer seems pretty grounded and it's a good read.

It also gets into some translations from the inquisition of the templars that describes the head and again good stuff.

Spiderj

[edit on 6/15/2005 by Spiderj]



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
IF the Templars were such good catholics, why did not the Pope just order them out of France or use them to help the Church or France become more powerful??


The Templars, for the most part, were not ordinary Catholics. They resented death, and they resented the focus of the Church on the death of Christ. They chose to focus on his life and teachings instead, which probably gave rise to the accusations that maybe they DID trample on the cross and spit on it, it being the instrument of Christs death.

Additionally, they had done A LOT of travelling and had been exposed to MANY cultures and religions, and may have picked up beliefs, traditions and rites from other religions believed to be pagan. Not to mention the SUPPOSED secret spiritual knowledge and rituals they gained from excavating the ruins of King Solomon's Temple...



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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The Atbash Cipher was an ancient cryptographic system thousands of years old.

Using this archaic cipher, Dr Hugh Schonfield applied it to the Hebrew word 'baphomet and translated it into Sophia (Wisdom).

www.templarhistory.com...


Although written in Hebrew it reads as the Greek word Sophia that translates into Wisdom in English. However, there is another connotation to the term, for Sophia was the Goddess and considered to be the bride of God.


Anyone care to comment on this information?



[edit on 9-11-2005 by masqua]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 06:41 PM
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Actually, "Sophia" comes from the Kabbalistic "Soph" of the Canaanite/Phoenician language; not Greek.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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She is also known as the Bride of Solomon, the Queen of Wisdom and War by Greeks and the Holy Spirit of Wisdom by Christians.

northernway.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">link

She is Wisdom, because the Greek word Sophia translates into Wisdom. More than that, She is the Wisdom of Deity


So, it would seem she is known not only in the Hebrew traditions, but as well in both the Nazarean and Pauline Christanities. High praise indeed.

Could it be that the Templars most damning crime was to turn away from the Romanized Pauline orthodoxy and into the Arian Heresy? If that is the case, then it makes perfect sense why they would deny the virgin birth, believing Jesus a man born of men.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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Us christians do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit to be a female entity, but rather the breath/spirit of God himself. Those who say otherwise are just closet gnostics. (as the etemology of the words imply).

It does not match biblical symbology for the holy spirit to be the female in the equation, since God's bride is the geographical location of Jerusalem (ezekiel 16), and Christ's bride is the church (revelations 19 or 20). Rather the comforter (holy spirit, aka Gods spirit), comes to us.

The confusion over it being called the bride of solomon is from proverbs 1 which equates it to a woman who calls you out in the streets. However the word wisdom here isnt even sophia, its chokmoth

Pro 1:20 Wisdom 2454 crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Pro 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

H2454
chokmoth
Collateral forms of H2451; wisdom: - wisdom, every wise [woman].

H2451
From H2449; wisdom (in a good sense): - skillful, wisdom, wisely, wit.

furthermore the word she translated back to the hebrew isnt gender specific. Personally I believe this is obviously purposeful misinterpretation (such as the common beliefs eve ate an apple, or there were 3 wise men are also purposeful).

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

*forgot to run spellcheck

[edit on 2005-11-9 by NuTroll]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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The Holy Spirit is Binah.

Male and Female.

The Divine Couple.

Abba and Aima.

Shekinah(Hebrew) is the female aspect, The Divine Mother Kundalini.











Samael Aun Weor:

"The woman, undoubtedly, has the same rights as the man. If we study carefully the word "Elohim," which figures in the Bible, we will find that it is a feminine noun with a masculine plural ending. The exact Translation of such noun is "Gods and Goddesses."

A religion without Goddesses is found amidst materialistic atheism, because if Elohim are Divine Androgynous Beings, so-called Gods and Goddesses, I can say that the result is we would be halfway to atheism.

One cannot remove Goddesses from any religion because within us the Divinity is masculine and feminine at the same time.

We are able to deduce from this as a corollary that the woman has the same rights as the man, and that the Intimate Self-realization of the Being is not possible without the union of the separate parts: man and woman. Both united by means of sex, they constitute an ineffable creature, a Creator-Elohim."




The Gnostics cannot accept the chauvinism of the "orthodox" sects of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. www.wutangcorp.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

One might wonder if some of the monoidolaters of such beliefs, are on some gay stuff in secret.

Of course, the religious fanatics will always reject the message of the Pistis Sophia.



But yes, Chokmah is Wisdom, the Second Sphere or 'God the Son'.


HU is the Breath of Life and is hidden within the name Tehuti/Thoth, and is why Tehuti is assigned to the Second Sphere(Chokmah) in the Kemetian Tree of Life.

HU, The Breath of Life, is also found in the Buddhist/Tantric Mantra of HUNG or HUM.


Samael Aun Weor says that the most beautiful atoms always manifest in the Son.



Regards



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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In Brahmanism, the Three Primary Forces: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit can be represented as:


1) Kether - Brahma/Saraswati

2) Chokmah - Vishnu/Lakshimi

3) Binah - Shiva/Parvati


So; Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva would be Abba, the masculine aspect of the Cosmic Christ.

And; Saraswati, Lakshimi and Parvati would be Aima, the feminine aspect or Shakti/Shekinah.




[edit on 9-11-2005 by Tamahu]



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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there is a very old tradition of the trinity that predates Paul the Heretic. This
tradition presents the trinity as Father, Mother, and Child. One that comes
to mind is the Isinian/Osirian tradition.

Sophia can also be equated with the Goddess Venus and all the attributes
assoiated there with.



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