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Templars and Baphomet

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posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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By Bro Faison 19X Moamin

www.geocities.com...


An article with some interesting things to say about the Knights Templar and some of the Islamic symbolism within Masonry.




posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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I know that the accusations were presented only because of the power and riches that the Templars had gained.

But do we have any Templar symbolism that used the Baphomet?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
WERE the Templars close to muslims? Being crusaders, they would generally spend a great deal of timme FIGHTING them, no?

I get, from Mackeys History of Freemasonry (legendary history), that they werent' as bellicose with them as is normally understood. Indeed, the Latin Kingdom had, for long spans of time, relative peace (relative to the dark ages anyway) with its neighbhors and certainly its muslim subjects.

boatphone
most all of their beliefs were NOT mainsteam at the time

According to what tho? I am not aware, and perhaps its just my own ignorance, of any Templar literary works or philosophical and theological treatises.


www.geocities.com...

The problem with this is that the higher 'islamified' degrees didn't exist until the 1700s, and that the templars probably didn't have anything to do with the Masons anyway.

alse, that page notes

Lastly before being allowed to enter the final 33rd degree of the Shriner, is told my the "Grand Worshipful Master " ( notice the similarity to the title of the head Islamic Druze guru in the 11th century),

But, however, the Druze are not muslims, and in fact are a mystery religion/secret society unto themselves. I actually started a few threads on or invovling them
Templars, Assasins, Druzes, Sufism, and, of course, Masonry. (RATS only)
Goddess Religions (only very tangetally related)
The Druzes of Lebanon (poster XLEGIONS has been extremely informative therein)



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
An article with some interesting things to say about the Knights Templar and some of the Islamic symbolism within Masonry.


This article only mentions the Shriners! Of course the Shriners would have islamic symbolism, that was the theme they chose!!! but the Shriners are not Freemasonry, and they have nothing to do with masonic Knights Templars!

Your description is a misrepresentation and alludes to something that is not accurate.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:52 PM
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It was a rumor that John the Baptists head was actually used in worship. Though it may be possible since the Templar owned a vast number of religious relics.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Egg Mundane
But do we have any Templar symbolism that used the Baphomet?


No! The Baphomet head legend was used by the church to accuse the Templars. It all started with the Legend of the Skull of Sidon. This is where the Baphomet head myth originated, and was furthered by the church for their allegations against the Templars.


[edit on 6-6-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Well, its all rumor none of us were there!

[edit on 6-6-2005 by Boatphone]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Egg Mundane
I know that the accusations were presented only because of the power and riches that the Templars had gained.

But do we have any Templar symbolism that used the Baphomet?



I couldn't find anything relevant.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
Well, its all rumor none of us were there!

[edit on 6-6-2005 by Boatphone]


Yes but use some common sense. Why would a group of Christian Crusaders adopt a figure from the Islam faith, they were both enemies. It's absolutely asinine.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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They were not just Christian Crusaders. They were a group that held beliefs the went against the Church.

Example: If one inspects the orders membership during the "Albigensian Crusade" (which the Templars refused to join) many Cathars were joining the Templar ranks. They were helping them hide from the Church. They shared the Cathar belief in Gnostic dualism.

Many also leared Arabic. And had close ties to Jews living in South France.

The Kights Templar had many secrets that the Church feared...



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Can I please see a link to where it says this?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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Peace sebatwerk


I'm not in the mood to debate right now(nor am I necessarily learned enough in this particular subject, as to address everything that would come up); however, I would like to ask if you even read the article I posted?

And this is why:


Originally posted by sebatwerk
This article only mentions the Shriners!




www.geocities.com...

...In the eleventh century, the Crusades were the center of attention.; especially Jerusalem. The Knights Templar, as they were first called, were about to journey to Jerusalem. In 1118 AD, nine Knights, under direct and covert Papal tutorage and instruction banded together. The creation of this new, highly secretive and focused Holy order was called Sacracrean Honorable Knights Templar. Their original mission was highly accepted by the public; they were to combine the bravery of the fighting Knights, with the wisdom and Chastity of the Medieval Catholic monks.

The Knights Templar, claimed origin of their name from the ancient temple of Solomon. After the Christian victory of the second Crusade, they were sent to be the personal guards of the Christian King of Jerusalem, Baldwin I. Baldwin I constructed them a small palace near the site of Solomons temple.; thusly giving them the name of Knights of the Templar (Temple). Notice, that according to Masonic scholars " the building of Kings Solomons temple was the beginng of Freemasonry".. and thusly any teachings based on the study of the Temple of Solomon, is intrinsically Masonic, as were the Templars. They themselves, considered much of their own esoteric wisdom akin to that of the prophet Solomon.

In about 1170, a fragile peace treaty was needed to attempt to stop the advancing waves of Muslim armies in Jerusalem. The new Christian king Baldwin II, decided to make an Alliance with the Persian leader Bahram, whom was also the leader of the current band of Assassins. It was this merger of the strange minds, that would lead to the entire body of Masonic "work", of which the 32 degree alone still testifies to its origins. It will suffice to say, that many other events took place, but later the Templars would return to Europe and the Assassins would merge back into secrecy. With a brief overview of historical events, it quickly becomes apparent what happened. Simply put: the Christian Knights came into contact with hidden Islamic teachings, as well as insights into prophets and Biblical scriptures that were common to both religions ( i.e. Solomon, Jesus, Aaron, etc. and their wisdom ). These knights then took what they had learned, combined it with European perspectives, and grew their own form of Ismalie doctrine in the heart of Europe! Let us now look at the result of this eventful mish-mash...






Just thought I'd drop an interesting article that contains some relevant info.....



Salaam




[edit on 6-6-2005 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Peace sebatwerk


I'm not in the mood to debate right now(nor am I necessarily learned enough in this particular subject, as to address everything that would come up); but I would like to ask if you even read the article I posted?



No I didn't read the whole thing, only what I saw at first. Even thought it DOES mention the Templars, it still doesn't relate any Islamic parts to their rituals. It only ASSUMES that the Templars came into contact with secret islamic teachings, but your article does not prove this in any way. Soo the point is moot.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
They were not just Christian Crusaders. They were a group that held beliefs the went against the Church.

You keep saying that we know what the templars beleived, but we do not. Please demonstrate that the templars beleived anything.

Example: If one inspects the orders membership during the "Albigensian Crusade" (which the Templars refused to join) many Cathars were joining the Templar ranks.
How can heretics like the Cathars possibly join the Templars? The templars are a catholic order. If the cathars had infiltrated the Templars, then they church was technically right to destroy the order (not the peopel of course, but certainly the church has a right to excommunicate and call apostate, well, apostates and heretics)


Many also leared Arabic. And had close ties to Jews living in South France.

Demonstrate this.


The Kights Templar had many secrets that the Church feared...

Demonstrate this. Demonstrate that the RCC was fearful of secrets that the Templars picked up somewhere, rather than fearful of their military power. The Templar Order wasn't just a bunch of monks, they were armed and extremely powerful, knights, who had strongholds throughout all of europe. It was only with the Church and the Kingdom of France that they could be generally defeated, that had nothing to do with documents or a holy grail, they were a powerful military organization.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic12
Can I please see a link to where it says this?



I did not learn this information from the "web", but from books, its where most good information is found. You could start by reading "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", if you would like to learn about this subject.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Nygdan,

The Kights Templar were not a normal cathoilc order. The founders descovered the truth about the Church and used this powerful knowlage to become rich and powerful. They did indeed let Cathars join and many where high ranking in the order. This is because they did not agree with cathoilc beliefs.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
I did not learn this information from the "web", but from books, its where most good information is found. You could start by reading "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", if you would like to learn about this subject.


Holy Blood Holy Grail is NOT a history book! It is an investigative theory book that deals with MANY half-truths, [bad] assumptions, circumstancial evidence and blatant conjecture. It is HARDLY an authoritative source on the Knights Templar.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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It is better than the story you get from the Cathoilc Church.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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I have heard more conjecture about the Templar history and believes...

Do we have any initial evidence (eg Writings, liturgical work, art work etc) giving use an idea of what they believed?



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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sebatwerk,
most times i agree with you. In this instance however " Me Thinks Thou doth
protest over much.




No I didn't read the whole thing, only what I saw at first. Even thought it DOES mention the Templars, it still doesn't relate any Islamic parts to their rituals. It only ASSUMES that the Templars came into contact with secret islamic teachings, but your article does not prove this in any way.

there is a deal of supportive evidence that the Templar organization employed
Islamic Translators, Secretaries and other functionaries on a regular basis. There is also the "traditional" evidence that they maintained a regular and
on going relationship with "high level contacts" with in the Islamic community
as well as with their " Islamic counterparts " The Hashishim", more commonly known as The Assisins.




Holy Blood Holy Grail is NOT a history book! It is an investigative theory book that deals with MANY half-truths,


Much the same as Masonic history. There is , to my knowledge NO evidence
of a single Masons guild that encompassed the entire lenght and bredth of
the British Isles. These Guilds if they existed at all were LOCAL, ( see Peasants rebellion 1370 ish).




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