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Can Ailens Manipulate Time?

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posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Maybe they have already altered time to avert a major catasrophe (possibly nuclear holocaust). If they have, we may never even know that it happened. Maybe the Cuban Missile Crisis did turn into an all-out nuclear exchange, resulting in hundreds of millions of casualties and the destruction of Earth. The aliens could have turned back the hands of time and set off some sequence of events that would change the outcome to what we now know it to be.

Just playing hypothetical...




posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 06:06 AM
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Complete Dimensions with Time working differently, ok that sort of Time Travel I can see. It would only allow forward movement, near zero time perhaps for any distance.

Always liked the 4 dimension (x,y,z, time) concept, although these days I add the 5th for energy and the 6th for group intelligence effects.

One thing to consider for those who are interested in the 'travel back in time and alter events' ideas. There are no small changes, anything at all can easily multiply a billion times over the years. Change the path a man walks even a step and he will be one step 'behind' for the rest of his life. This in turn will affect countless others. Most imperceptable changes, but when multiplied a billion fold, the future changes completely.



A.T
(-)



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by SpookyVince
I am tempted to reply to your speculation by comparing 9/11 and the cuban crisis: they are events of a whole different scale.

I totally agree that 9/11 is really horrible and a most tragic event in history, but what about a nuclear war as you mention it? I think it is just so huge compared to a mere 3000 dead (yes, sorry about that, but...) that if indeed they can do something, then they did it if they had to. A nuclear war, as such, is not just a few thousands, but likely a few millions in the short term, and maybe up to a few billions (yes, the entire planet) of dead in the long term...

Now, answering to the question, whether they can or not do it is simply impossible. We don't know. We suspect that time may be something that can be altered, but we just don't even have a clue as how to, so it's impossible at this stage to state that yes or no they can do it. Maybe, maybe not!


I think aliens can manipulate timelines, but I think there are certain events or things they can't change. Like if they try to prevent 9/11, the terrorists will just keep trying till they do somehting worse. In order to truely prevent it they would have to change how the terrorists feel about America for instance. So I think certain things that are part of a big picture like huge world events cannot be prevented without changing the whole world view behind it. But I think they can and do manipulate time as far as small things that don't effect the whole world, like preventing someone from getting hit by a car etc.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
A good example of what I am talking about. There was a short Story by Ray Bradbury called "A Sound of Thunder" The story, is about time travelers who go on safaris to the past to hunt dinosaurs. The organizers take the time to research to ensure that the dino's who are to be killed would have died at that time anyway. The organizers have very strick rules to avoid changes in the timeline. Unfortunately, one "hunter" ignores the rules and accidently kills a pre-historic butterfly. The death of this butterfly, completely changes the future.

A Sound of Thunder


That's an interesting way of putting it, but all they could do would be to prevent the particular time and way JFK was killed. Those who wanted him killed would just keep trying until they suceeded in another way oir time. So in a way, preventing crertain actions doesn't really prevent the actions, just changes when and how the inevitable wold happen. Chaniging one person's veiws or path in life may not prevent it because say if you change the life of the one who killed him and put him on a different path, the ones behind the assasination thing will onky pic someone else to do it. The only way to prevent it would be to change the whole world view of JFK that lead to those who wanted to kill him to make them not desire to kill him. That I think is impossible. They can't tprevent 9/11 unless they change the terrorists mindset that made them desire to make 9/11 happen. If they prevent that prticular day's events the terrorists might have just kept trying it till they finally succeeded on another day. It may even be made worse than the original version. That's why I think major world events can't be changed in a way without changing the whole world view. Like going back and prevent MLK's assasination, they may prevent it that day, but the climate of the time would make it so that either way you cut it, someone would keep trying to get him till they succeed. See what I mean?
To truely, prevent it the aliens would have to cage a whole lot of people and the whole climate of the times back then, which is impossible I think.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Leading Lady
That's an interesting way of putting it, but all they could do would be to prevent the particular time and way JFK was killed...

The only way to prevent it would be to change the whole world view of JFK that lead to those who wanted to kill him to make them not desire to kill him...

They can't prevent 9/11 unless they change the terrorists mindset that made them desire to make 9/11 happen...

Like going back and prevent MLK's assasination, they may prevent it that day, but the climate of the time would make it so that either way you cut it, someone would keep trying to get him till they succeed.


All this talk about PREVENTING an assassination, or PREVENTING a bombing... how come no one has considered the possibility that aliens, or even people, went back in time to ENSURE that those events happened?

Think about it... who was the one who sent us into outer space, the moon? Who was responsible for that? BAM! Get rid of the problem, and lo and behold, we haven't been back to the moon.

Want to take control of the world? Create chaos and disorder... make allies into enemies... KA-POW! Destroy a symbol of unity, make people question everybody...

Well, I guess those aren't good examples of time travel, but rather doing something so the end justifies the means, but still think about it... why would aliens want to travel time to help us and our stupid nature?

**EDIT- darn typos**

[edit on 16-6-2005 by soothsayer]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by soothsayer
To really screw you up...

Wow. To really screw US up? Things look a lot different from this side. Anyway, to answer your questions:





All this talk about PREVENTING an assassination, or PREVENTING a bombing... how come no one has considered the possibility that aliens, or even people, went back in time to ENSURE that those events happened?

Because the probability of that being the case is less than the probability that this post will change your mind.




Think about it... who was the one who sent us into outer space, the moon? Who was responsible for that? BAM! Get rid of the problem, and lo and behold, we haven't been back to the moon.

Simply put: NASA was.




Want to take control of the world? Create chaos and disorder... make allies into enemies... KA-POW! Destroy a symbol of unity, make people question everybody...

Well, following your line of logic, aren't you yourself guilty of that right now?


1. You are creating chaos and disorder by trying to convince people that sensitive events of the past are connected to enormous conspiracies.

2. I don't know about the ally part, but discussing said sensitive topics and attempting to alter the meaning will definitely land you some enemies.

3. Obviously, through the chaos that is created, everyone will begin to question everyone.



Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to add you to my "wants to take over the world" list.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
A good example of what I am talking about. There was a short Story by Ray Bradbury called "A Sound of Thunder" The story, is about time travelers who go on safaris to the past to hunt dinosaurs. The organizers take the time to research to ensure that the dino's who are to be killed would have died at that time anyway. The organizers have very strick rules to avoid changes in the timeline. Unfortunately, one "hunter" ignores the rules and accidently kills a pre-historic butterfly. The death of this butterfly, completely changes the future.

A Sound of Thunder



How did the death of that one butterfly change things?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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According to the Dan Burisch interviews yes, time can be manipulated to go back in linear time (this particular race he refers to did according to Mr Burisch). They are here to correct a genome error done I believe 30K years ago to ancient men.

Other than Mr Burisch, I have read many times that forward time travel through speed can and has been accomplished however, reverse time travel cannot be achieved in theory.

Dallas



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by backtoreality

Originally posted by soothsayer
To really screw you up...

Wow. To really screw US up? Things look a lot different from this side. Anyway, to answer your questions:





All this talk about PREVENTING an assassination, or PREVENTING a bombing... how come no one has considered the possibility that aliens, or even people, went back in time to ENSURE that those events happened?

Because the probability of that being the case is less than the probability that this post will change your mind.




Think about it... who was the one who sent us into outer space, the moon? Who was responsible for that? BAM! Get rid of the problem, and lo and behold, we haven't been back to the moon.

Simply put: NASA was.




Want to take control of the world? Create chaos and disorder... make allies into enemies... KA-POW! Destroy a symbol of unity, make people question everybody...

Well, following your line of logic, aren't you yourself guilty of that right now?


1. You are creating chaos and disorder by trying to convince people that sensitive events of the past are connected to enormous conspiracies.

2. I don't know about the ally part, but discussing said sensitive topics and attempting to alter the meaning will definitely land you some enemies.

3. Obviously, through the chaos that is created, everyone will begin to question everyone.



Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to add you to my "wants to take over the world" list.


Good point.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
I guess this is a hard one to prove but it might be worth debating anyway !! So here goes... Can Ailens manipulate timelines?

Thoughts anyone ...


everything that is science fact, was first science fiction.

a better question to consider may be at what point in the future does the human race, (or the races we help develop), obtain the technology or other advancements necessary for time travel?

or at what point in the future do we aquire the technology to at least send a message into the past ....... or at what point in the past do we recieve the message (s)?

and if the message was only a message and had to be decoded, that would mean the message itself would be the key to deciphering the message we sent ourselves.

so how many time lines could there be?

one for each consciousness, one for each observer?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Alexander Tau
Complete Dimensions with Time working differently, ok that sort of Time Travel I can see. It would only allow forward movement, near zero time perhaps for ........

Always liked the 4 dimension (x,y,z, time) concept, although these days I add the 5th for energy and the 6th for group intelligence effects.



absolutley loved everthing else you've said!

however, on this one point of not being able to travel back in time i offer some legitimacy for debate:

"all things being equal" and "cause and effect":

everything seems to have an opposing factor in the world we choose to create, so perhaps time as we see it also has its (for lack of a better term) "anti-time".

what if past the singularity of a black hole a mirror image of our previous universe existed, but time had actually reversed.

remember that the black hole at the center of our own galaxy is wide enough to fit a few million of our solar systems back to back across it.

just a thought, either "way out there" , ...... or ...... "way in here".



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:28 AM
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Glad to have found some common ground with you ET, even if we disagree at least we have some communication going here.

Everyone,

I do not in general enjoy being on the negative side of a discussion. So I
am not in any way attempting to shut down the topic, or shout people into
submission. But like any subject UFOs have good leads and bad. We should
discuss all possibilities.

There are types of Time Travel that seem possible, but backwards is a
little different.

Leading Lady mentioned saving a crash victim. Lets say we do that, we reach back in time and change what happens. So instead of dying he lives another 50 years.

In that time he will influence a huge number of people. Lets say that each day for the rest of his life he takes one action that has significance towards just 1 other person. This means his act causes the other person to take some other action.

Here are just some simple numbers, they could be larger by a lot, but just to ballpark here.

He influences:

Family from 0 to 50
Friends from 0 to 500
associates from 0 to 1000 (at work, at play, social)
casual 0 to 10000 (clerks, schoolmates)


That is 5775 people if you take the average of the ranges. So 6,000 people that this person directly influences.

In 50 years, there are 18,250 days, if he makes one significant action per day (hardly anyone makes no actions of significance in a day, Leaders can affect millions in a day) that is 18,000 times he has influenced someone.

One Final Step

Each of our man's 6,000 has 6,000 of their own, so what our man does echos in 3.6 million peoples lives. The next ripple 216 Billion, more than the planet.

It does not matter exactly what numbers you plug in above, go way lower, it just takes a single step further.

Common sense and experience both tell me that what I do matters to a lot of people. Each choice changes the path just a bit, for everyone.

So this all makes me see the future as something woven out of the actions we take moment to moment. Going back into the past and altering anything significant changes everything forward. So the 'you' that took the actions never existed.

The Butterfly

Everyone accepts that a human life is full of actions taken, consequences, and the like. But in truth there are many parts to the whole that matter a great deal even if they are less than the sum of a human's lifetime actions. So if a butterfly was intended to be eaten by something, that something perhaps died because the butterfly was killed, you start a chain of events that will change the future.

The animal that was supposed to eat the butterfly dies, so it does not, 6 months later, kill the first leader of a primitive human settlement. This leader, instead of dying well and setting a fine tradition, lives to leads his people over some cliffs and the whole village perishes.

We are so connected, and such tiny events can matter so much.


A.T
(-)




[edit on 6/17/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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I really don't see why this is such a big deal. I mean, when I was in college and the 12:00 midnight deadline would slip by, I'd just alter the time on my computer to make it look like the email was lost for an hour. It's easy to alter time. It's scarry, but try altering the time on your watch, or car clock.

So, if aliens can't even alter time....wait a minute!! Maybe that's why there is not definitive evidence of their visitations! Maybe they are still stuck on their planet trying to alter their clocks after alien daylight savings.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
what if past the singularity of a black hole a mirror image of our previous universe existed, but time had actually reversed.

remember that the black hole at the center of our own galaxy is wide enough to fit a few million of our solar systems back to back across it.

Sorry teacher, I have to put the brakes on this one. Anything that got even close to the event horizon--not even the singularity--would be ripped apart under unimaginably strong effects of gravity.

Let's look at the gravitational effects of something far, far weaker: a neutron star. Standing on the surface of one, a 6 foot man (oh, sorry, OR woman) would be reduced to the thickness of a sheet of paper.

There are lots more examples, especially the mechanics of an accretion disk that are in certain circumstances present around the even horizon, but any living thing approaching the event horizon won't be around to see what lies further inside.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:58 AM
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absolutley priceless points Alexander and Reality!

there are an infinite amount of problems with backwards time travel, i strongly agree.

Speculation:
but if you travel ahead in time far enough, when all stars fade, after all seperate entities implode into a singular black hole, including the consciousnesses there in (except for the ones who choose to stay out to be the observers so truth can be witnessed), then perhaps just another big bang, same life forms, same people, except for the "watchers" that stayed behind to school the races as they emerge, and play god to exellerate and enlighten the races that contributed to thier advancements the aeon before.

hard to swallow, i know. has some flaws, obviously. that is meer speculation.

at any rate, travelling back in time, you would have to ensure that absolutley nothing would change except the one thing you wanted to change.

but what if the whole reason for coming back was to fix one mistake that ended up shattering timelines in a lot of different realities.

then there in lies a great problem.

but, what would cause an obviously much more advanced race to venture back in the first place?

the death of one of the sexes, perhaps.

no sunlight, no testosterone.

no testosterone, no man.

no man, women would find another way to utilize and learn from nature on how to survive and continue the human race in some fashion.

social insects, bees and ants mate once, then they are all clones.
organized from the bottom up, no one better, and all with purpose.

just speculation.

but seriously, if knowing the cost of travelling back in time ...... what reasons would you personally do it for?

find your ancients?
find your origins?
find the origins of the magic that existed before your race did?
save your race?
save the race that excelled you for the purpose of going back to ensure they do not die out?

what reasons could there be, if not one of these, then what reasons would you consider noble enough to take such a venture, knowing the risks could be so great?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Time does not exist therefore it is not possible to travel back in time because the "past" is not something that is saved to be recreated. Our physical life is not like digitally stored information. You can not go back in time to re-start all the events to do this requires rolling back every event in the entire universe to that point of "time" reference. As you can not just roll back time say on Earth, without also rolling back time on Mars, jupiter, the sun, venus saturn etc and thats just our solar system. You have the billions of other systems that must also be rolled back.

Sorry but time itself does not exist.

Aliens can however simulate the loss of time on a local basis with humans. Think about being or just about to be in an accident. What happens, what do people normally say "its like it all happened in slow motion". The reality is that the brain is much more complex then we know, obviously. And can moderate the uptake of data and the crunching and analysis of that data if you will at different rates dependant upon the situation at hand. In normal life the brain disregards some item that are stationary with "pre-programed" information about what that item is, it does not have to relearn or re-evaluate the spatial position of the item because it is already known. In the event of say an accident where something unexpectantly happens, the brain begins to process evey micro detail, position, threats, sensory sounds and images etc even having a self preservation mode that shuts down the neural network a fraction of a second prior to major impact so that the body is not overloaded at the point of impact with neuron firings with the pain signal. Thats why you have a sensation of blacking out or just not knowing the exact point of impact.

Anyways back to the point is that the brain has this ability on its own, if Aliens are advanced enough to overcome a whole host of biological events it is possible that they know how to trigger this response in the human brain possibly even to the point of "stopping time" although relative only to the subject. You see the brain would remain in one cycle, oblivious to any additional inputs to the human it would be unoticeable except for when they were "released" and suddenly the time according to a clock etc if now forward of where they could last recall. Think of coma patients who wake up and have no idea that a month or even 10 years had past. To them it feels almost like an instant as their conscience brains have no new data to absorb. They may recall that they had a dream, but usually it is very short in detail, being repeated over and over and over in the sub-conscience mind enough times to build a memory of the event.

When a human dreams, it is not A dream but a repeative cycle of the same dream over the course of an hour or more that gets "burned" into your memory.

I think as a precaution aliens having this ability would uses it every time they need to study a human subject, thus IF alien abductions are real, then the only plausibles ones would be where, A the human has an encounter with something strange maybe in the sky or up close and then suddenly there is a loss of time and the human is back in the same physical spot but time being ahead of what they could remember



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by robertfenix
Aliens can however simulate the loss of time on a local basis with humans.


I'm not even going to get into how you know that aliens even exist....


But, what proof do you have that aliens are capable of this feat? Remember the key word here is proof, not speculation.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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BacktoReality,

I appreciate your point of view but do we have to discuss the entire UFO subject in every thread?

You know there is as of yet no 'solid proof'. When there is you will know about. But there is more than enough evidence to convince most of the people here.

All due respect, but cannot we not confine general 'proof' questions to their own threads?

And chance we could make this idea one of the unwritten laws of ATS?


A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/17/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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well they must exist, really, the only question is where and when in time they existed.....

as for the human brain since I have experienced this "everything in slow motion" event there must be ranges of this effect from none, which would be everything is a sureal very quick were you miss alot of things to average, you uptaking only new information to slow, you concentrate on specific things that might be changing very rapidly in your enviroment to extrememly slow where your brain is capable of tracking a highspeed object in flight.

you ever see stunt people catch a flying arrow that has been shot at them from a distance.... how do you think they do that......

well I will tell you, they have a certain ability to alter the brain's absorption of visual images to the point that they can "see" each frame by frame if you will (like a moving image being typically 30 fos) it happens in real time to us, but to the gifted person it seems like it takes a few seconds for the arrow to travel the short distance allowing them to raise their hand at just the precise moment to intersect the arrow in flight and catch the shaft.

this is a subconscience effect though and not a will fully induced alteration in their brain function. Its like saying to yourself I can do it I can do it I can do it and naturally not eveyone's brain will react in such a manner but the more times you put yourself in that situation the faster your brain will learn to recognise the pattern and automatically switch into the slow effect mode to allow you to actualy catch the arrow in flight.

I am sure to learn this ability it takes putting your self into the path of the arrow (hopefully tipless) enough times to overcome the fear and enough times to learn how to focus in on only the arrow in flight.

the brain is an amazing computer, think about baseball, catching a speeding pop fly to the outfield yet some players can make amazing catches while others can not even get under the ball. Or how about hitting a fastball at 80 or 90 mph. At 80mph to travel the 60feet from the pitchers mound to home plate takes a whopping .511378 of a second.

Any baseball players what to comment on how long it seems to take for the ball to reach you from the pitchers hand...



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Leading Lady

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
A good example of what I am talking about. There was a short Story by Ray Bradbury called "A Sound of Thunder" The story, is about time travelers who go on safaris to the past to hunt dinosaurs. The organizers take the time to research to ensure that the dino's who are to be killed would have died at that time anyway. The organizers have very strick rules to avoid changes in the timeline. Unfortunately, one "hunter" ignores the rules and accidently kills a pre-historic butterfly. The death of this butterfly, completely changes the future.

A Sound of Thunder



How did the death of that one butterfly change things?


Oh yeah.. heh. I'll explain it for you.

If you went back in time, just being there changes varibles of which will change other varibles of which will change other varibles until they begin to change varibles not even yet discovered. (Weather is a good example.)

Killing a butterfly is a realitivley HUGE thing to do, compared to displacing air molecules.


Unless that was sarcasm?

Anyways.. I always find these discussions funny.


[edit on 17-6-2005 by Ksnazdnzon]







 
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