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Catholics != Christian?

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posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Why do some people think that Catholics aren't Christian? Where did this come from? I WAS a Catholic, and it absolutely IS a Christian faith. I am really curious where and how this misconception came to be.

-P




posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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Ive read thru a few of the religious threads and I have not heard any ATSers say that...I mean yeah some might have reffered to Catholics as non-Chrisitans...but I don't think anybody has put up an arguement saying they are not...

Are you talking about on ATS?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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I am a Lutheran and although we consider Catholics Christians, we question their interpretations and official explanations of the Word of God, but they are still Christians.....

now Mormons are touchy one, considered a cult by many Christians...



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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I believe that the catholic church does not tell the truth of how to actually be saved and actually misleads people into thinking they are saved when they are not. I only say this because I do not want to see anyone enter hell.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by postings
Why do some people think that Catholics aren't Christian? Where did this come from? I WAS a Catholic, and it absolutely IS a Christian faith. I am really curious where and how this misconception came to be.

-P


I've never heard that said about Catholics before. I think anyone who says Catholics aren't Christians is silly. It's like saying ATS isn't a website; it just doesn't make sense.


Originally posted by edsinger
now Mormons are touchy one, considered a cult by many Christians...


I'm a Mormon, and I always think this accusation is silly, too. The name 'Mormon' is actually just a nickname, the full name of the church is 'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints'. The Book of Mormon is full of references to Christ. No matter what else you may think of Mormons, they are as much Christians as Catholics, although some of their beliefs are quite different, there's no denying that.


Originally posted by edsinger
I am a Lutheran and although we consider Catholics Christians, we question their interpretations and official explanations of the Word of God, but they are still Christians.....


I think that's probably the biggest issue. As a Mormon, this is how I look at other Christian religions, people with good intentions and who lead good lives, but misunderstand certain portions of scripture (my opinion). People who take a much stronger stance sometimes try and claim that all Christian religions other than the one they follow are nonChristian, or at least the ones that differ the most from their own flavour of Christianity.

edit: why on earth is this in "medical conspiracies"??????


[edit on 4-6-2005 by DragonsDemesne]



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesneI'm a Mormon, and I always think this accusation is silly, too. The name 'Mormon' is actually just a nickname, the full name of the church is 'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints'. The Book of Mormon is full of references to Christ. No matter what else you may think of Mormons, they are as much Christians as Catholics, although some of their beliefs are quite different, there's no denying that.


I tend to think of them in that way as Christians and I dont want to get in a flame war, it is just the studying of the history of Mormonism will let one understand the label as a cult.

I would like to discuss this with you so start a thread and lets see what happens. I will be gone a while so PM me the link and I will answer when I get back.




posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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The only thing I've ever heard about Catholics 'not being Christian' is related to sainthood and the deification of the feminine.

In fact, I have heard some call the RCC fairly closely aligned to paganism because of the location of cathederals on pagan sites and their ' nose tapping' penchant for 'borrowing existent traditions' to cement a bond between the Holy See in Rome and the indiginous peoples of the New World during the last 600 years or more.

If that isn't enough to set the Church of Rome in trouble with the Fundie Cults, the Catholic love for grottos and caves is directly connected with the reproductive equipment of good old Mother Nature. That particular nuance sets them squarely into pagan territory.

IMO...I kinda think the marriage of the 'old ways' and the Church of Rome is exactly the reason for their longivity. The European protestant ethics work fine for control and consolidation, but fails miserably for the individual as he/she tries to relate to the mysteries of nature.

note: I am neither Catholic nor Protestant, so my opinion is free from bias.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 10:23 PM
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Mods, can you please place this in the Religion area? I posted in medical by mistake.

Thanks,
-P



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Before you can understand this issue, first you must understand what being a Christian really means. For catholics, that means being a member of the church. Baptism takes place shortly after birth and if you will take care of the church, the church will take care of your soul.

That view came under much criticism until such time as there occurred what has come to be known as the Protestant Reformation. Protestants came to believe that a personal relationship with God was more important than the ritual and hierarchy of the church and that the only intermediary one needed between himself and God is Jesus, not a priesthood or saints.

Along with this also came the necessity for Christians to read and understand the bible and to come to a point in their lives when they confess their sins before man and God, make a public profession of faith, and be baptized by immersion, as Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River by his cousin John the Baptist. Thus we have a distinct difference between being Christian and being "a Christian" or as some are wont to say, "a born-again Christian."

The term "born-again Christian" is often ridiculed by those who don't know of the term's origin, and sadly, sometimes that includes devout catholics.




The Book of John

Chapter 3:



[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


www.hti.umich.edu...



It is based upon this scripture that those who have "taken Christ as their personal savior" call themselves "born-again."

Jesus continued:




[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
[11] Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


www.hti.umich.edu...




So, you can see that for many, being a Christian involves much more than being baptised at birth and following a set of rituals and sacrements and involves a change of heart, a reordering of one's life from the priorities of the flesh to the priorities of the spirit and that this requires personal effort, not reliance upon a church and its priesthood.

I hope this has served to clarify the issue somewhat.


[edit on 05/6/5 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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I believe that Catholics are true Christians though are quite misguided in several areas. Religions such as Mormonism I don't believe to be Christian...although they claim Jesus as one of their own, their teaching are in direct conflict with basic Christian beliefs from the Old and New Testaments.


J_3

posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 01:03 AM
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[edit on 5-6-2005 by J_3]


J_3

posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 01:03 AM
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There are obviously differences between the two Religions. The question, however, is very broad.

Here are a few opinions with something to back up the claims.

www.cephasministry.com...


www.wbpc.org...



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 01:07 AM
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Of course catholics are christians. The catholic church was formed by Jesus and he put the Apostle Peter in charge of it. He was like the first pope, but the name pope hadnt come into exhistance yet.



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 03:47 AM
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Croat, POPE means FATHER in the italian language....ALL the Apostles received the same rights as the Apostle Peter....all have the same title......all are in charge....but Saint Peter was first to proclaim that Christ is the SON OF GOD....and based on S.Peters FAITH, the church was built.......not that Saint Peter is the LEADER .....because the SAME rights were also given to all the other Apostles.....
Catholic also means Universal.......
And Yes, Roman Catholicism.....are Christian .....

when Christ set up the Church ....describing it as ONE BODY(as He is ) ....as ONE TREE ,with many branches(people)......
www.pigizois.gr...

There was never a HEAD OF THE Church ...only Jesus Christ .

Eph5:23......Christ is the HEAD OF THE CHURCH.

The Church was united in agreement for 1,000years......up until the great Schism....1054.
www.pigizois.gr...


quote////In the early centuries of Christianity,
there appeared many so-called Christian churches which espoused false teachings (i.e., not based on Holy Scripture and/or the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles).
Thus the Christian Church had to address these heresies (false teachings) and to begin to systematically espouse and proclaim the true teachings of Christ.
The Church did this through its Ecumenical (i.e., universal) and regional councils.
Just as the Apostles in the Book of Acts, Chapter 15
asked for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in addressing issues regarding the teachings of Christ,
their successors-the bishops-held councils in order to decide what is true and what is false.

In Holy Scripture we read "stand firm and hold fast to the traditions you have learned from us by word or letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15.
"The tradition which I handed on to you came to me from the Lord Himself" (1 Corinthians 11:23).
"I praise you, brethren, that you always remember me, and keep the traditions as I delivered them to you" (1Corinthians 11:2).

Traditions are those that the Church keep....oral and written down.....

"Faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3)
The Holy Spirit guides the church.....
"take no thought how or what ye shall speak... For it is not you who speak, but the spirit of your Father which speaketh in you"(matt. 10:19;20).

www.monasterypress.com...

IX
helen



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 06:47 AM
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Geeeeeze ... another avenue for uneducated anti-catholic
bigots to spew. Whoda' thunk it?
This belongs in
the lower nether regions of BTS Religion Forum. Quick -
move it - before it attracts the rats ....



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by postings
Why do some people think that Catholics aren't Christian? Where did this come from? I WAS a Catholic, and it absolutely IS a Christian faith. I am really curious where and how this misconception came to be.

-P


Ok, lets take a critical review.

1.) The history. The RCC is responsible for Millions of deaths in the Crusades. They were a catholic outreach program. Christ in no way supports what they did.

2.) The Inquisition. The RCC tortured and murdered 100's of Millions of people. It was not christ supported in any way.

3.) The current nun rape scandal that is hushed over

4.) HOw long was the pedophile scandal going on?

5.) The mary doctrine (sinless, glory hog, etc)

6.) Pope being infallible is another


The problem with your question is that you aim it more toward the intent of the people instead of the doctrine. The people, like any other, are seeking.
Its the rcc doctrine that is not christian



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Geeeeeze ... another avenue for uneducated anti-catholic
bigots to spew. Whoda' thunk it?
This belongs in
the lower nether regions of BTS Religion Forum. Quick -
move it - before it attracts the rats ....


I'm a bit befuddled by your response, FlyersFan...
This is a good question, as I've heard it asked many times before.

I know the thread belongs on this forum and BTS, but I'm wondering where it was that you noted an anti-Catholic bias anywhere in this thread so far...I don't see any before your post.

My second question is...who are the rats you're referring to and why are their opinions to be feared and repulsed?

(just curious)



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by postings
Why do some people think that Catholics aren't Christian? Where did this come from? I WAS a Catholic, and it absolutely IS a Christian faith. I am really curious where and how this misconception came to be.

-P


The problem with your question is that you aim it more toward the intent of the people instead of the doctrine. The people, like any other, are seeking.
Its the rcc doctrine that is not christian


Jake, can you give me your definition of "Christian" in a nutshell?



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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I did put it here but then back spaced it when I realized we were about to change the topic.

Lets simply see if what I said lines up with scripture.

RCC doctrine being the focus of all of those



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997I did put it here but then back spaced it when I realized we were about to change the topic. Lets simply see if what I said lines up with scripture. RCC doctrine being the focus of all of those.


One of the keys to effective communication is defining one's terms. If by "Christian" you mean "Anointed", then ... one must ask anointed with what and by whom and for what purpose? There are 450+ Protestant denominations out there be they mainline, splinter, fringe or cults. Are all these "Christian"...? And why focus solely on the RCC? It isn't the only "Catholic" church. In the words of Dr. Evil, "Throw me a freaking bone here." Otherwise, this thread ought to be renamed "RCC Bashing".



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