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Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
If the curch wasn't there to begin with, and a man and a woman hook-up, it seems to be a completely natural process.
the question was>>>is fornicaton or "sex for the sake of sex" and evil thing or did the "church" make this....
Originally posted by BaastetNoir
even before christian based Churches came up, there were SERIOUSLY SEVERE LAWS agaisnt sex outside the wedd lock... and if you dont believe me search the web or libraries for Tribal Societies, or Society in Ancient Civilizations ... things like ... youll find out im not making anything up to defend any church.
Legal marriage invlves a courthouse not a church. Once the two parties enter into marraige, they are united through certain aspects of the state
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
...I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
On the condition that the lovers are consenting adults and no one is harmed or coerced into it, I feel there is nothing evil about making love. On the contrary, I think it is a very good thing, especially if the intention of the lovers is to give their partner as much pleasure as they are able. Not all faiths see it as evil. The Kundalini force is a spiritual concept that teaches sex can raise one's consciousness. That would mean that people are not quite so bad as many churches say we are. Imagine that, people being inherently good, the naked human body being beautiful, and sexually satisfying ones partner is a good thing.
Sounds crazy, huh?
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
The Trobriand Island people got along just fine even though fidelity was not considered important. If your partner slept with your friend you would have likely laughed about it instead of getting angry. Which view is more moral? Of course, when European sailors found out about this, they eagerly participated and brought to the island STD's. This ended their previous way of seeing and doing things.
In Christian marriage, when the father gives away the bride, he is literally handing ownership of her over to the groom. She is chattel, owned by the father up until then, and by the husband afterwards. And many churches still have wedding vows that contain 'I promise to submit and obey.' For the wife only, of course.
I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
Originally posted by humbled_one
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In Christian marriage, when the father gives away the bride, he is literally handing ownership of her over to the groom. She is chattel, owned by the father up until then, and by the husband afterwards. And many churches still have wedding vows that contain 'I promise to submit and obey.' For the wife only, of course.
I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
Blackgaurd, again you make only a half truthed statement. you say in "christian" marriage this was/is done but it was done in the Old testament that has nothing to do with christianity yet as it was written way before the New Testament. This is exactly what i mean about people making comments about things , yet they really are not factual comments...you have done it twice now...the other time with Kundalini...
Have you never been to a wedding where the father 'gives the bride away.'
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Originally posted by humbled_one
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In Christian marriage, when the father gives away the bride, he is literally handing ownership of her over to the groom. She is chattel, owned by the father up until then, and by the husband afterwards. And many churches still have wedding vows that contain 'I promise to submit and obey.' For the wife only, of course.
I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
Blackgaurd, again you make only a half truthed statement. you say in "christian" marriage this was/is done but it was done in the Old testament that has nothing to do with christianity yet as it was written way before the New Testament. This is exactly what i mean about people making comments about things , yet they really are not factual comments...you have done it twice now...the other time with Kundalini...
I will grant you the Kundalini one, I admit my ignorance and apologize, but as for the marriage post, I stand by it. If if was not accepted and adopted by Christians it would not continue to be a part of the ritual. Have you never been to a wedding where the father 'gives the bride away.'? If so, then I would guess you have not been to many weddings. And as for the second point about submitting and obeying, I can't recall one single Christian denomination that does not preach that very thing. It has been the subject of countless sermons I have attended in many different Christian churches.
Do you honestly feel that my points regarding wedding ceremonies are not factual? They are common in the Christian churches here.
Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
...I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. It is possible to have a moral relationship ouside of any organization, except the one formed by the union of male and female.
P.S. I like your signature, and I concur.
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
... And many churches still have wedding vows that contain 'I promise to submit and obey.' For the wife only, of course.
I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
Originally posted by BaastetNoir
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
... And many churches still have wedding vows that contain 'I promise to submit and obey.' For the wife only, of course.
I hope my marriage is much more balanced and equal than that.
true ... but they also promisse "till death do us part"... and the percentage of divorce amongst Christian couples is higher than ever...lol...
not that it is a funny subject...but ....
Originally posted by humbled_one
Anyway, none of this has anything to do with my original question...