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U.S. Effort to “Spread Democracy” Leaves A Trail of Conflict and Suffering

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posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 07:11 AM
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ONE-TENTH of Arabs live directly under foreign occupation!



Given George Bush’s practice of saying one thing while doing another (hailing the “advancing rights of mankind” at the United Nations while his Justice Department was jailing immigrants without due process), it is not surprising that his campaign to bring democracy to the Middle East so far has only meant replacing unfriendly regimes with more obliging ones. The people of Afghanistan and Iraq are still waiting for real freedom.

After spending seven hours in Afghanistan on March 17, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said, “There could be no better story than Afghanistan’s democratic development.” Laura Bush spent six hours in Kabul on March 30 and declared, “The power of freedom is on display across Afghanistan.” The two visitors might have been less impressed if they had stayed longer. Three years after the United States went to war against the Taliban, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in a New York Times interview that private armies pose a serious danger to Afghanistan today, and corruption is rampant. Elections have had to be postponed three times because of fears that powerful regional commanders, armed by the United States to fight the Taliban, would dominate the process. Despite vows by international donors to help rebuild it, Afghanistan is still one of the five poorest countries in the world, with a literacy rate of 28 percent. It is once more the world’s leading source of opium.

Bush claims his policies are promoting democracy, but the administration’s record of human rights abuses at home and abroad suggest that freedom and the rule of law are not what he has in mind. The permanent bases the military is building in Iraq, and the influence on U.S. policy of pro-Israel fantasists such as Bolton and Wurmser, suggest that the Bush administration’s ultimate goal is U.S. domination over the oil-rich Gulf region, and an Israel free to maintain its occupation of other people’s land. A truly democratic Middle East would make it impossible to achieve these goals.

source:
WRMEA

Do you think that One Tenth of Arabs that live under foreign occupation, just sit and watch as the foreign occupators plunder, slaughter and steal!

Expect some More Resistance in Future, if this is Bush's idea of Spreading Peace and Democracy!

He is More like spreading Fear and Bullets!

[edit on 4/6/05 by Souljah]




posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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I guess as usual one side view of what democracy is and stand for is all what the world needs to understand the good intentions of the mighty US.

And I will only have to add that "democracy is in the eye of the beholder"


As long as the Bush administration is the one spreading democracy is most be true.


[edit on 4-6-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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That's because they're not spreading democracy
but rather following the old kissinger plan for the region



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Sorry too go off topic, but did anyone see the huaman rights violation out of yugoslavia on Hanity & colmes last nite? They lined people up in a ditch and shot them in the back while they were bound in the style of adolf hitler.
it is a sad thing.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Sorry too go off topic, but did anyone see the huaman rights violation out of yugoslavia on Hanity & colmes last nite? They lined people up in a ditch and shot them in the back while they were bound in the style of adolf hitler.
it is a sad thing.

Mister X, be VERY careful when talking about the Civil War in Yugoslavia.

Its a VERY Delicate topic.

What exactly did you watch?

I dont know this Hanity & Colmes....

What does that have to do with the US Effort to Spread Democracy and Leave a Trail of Conflict and Suffering?

[edit on 4/6/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Grossly Off-Topic

Souljah, I feel a bit silly saying this, but well, here goes.

I used to think of you as an anti-American disruptor and forum troll. Basically someone bent on dragging ATS into the muck

I wish to correct myself here, and publicly so.

I see things differently now, and no, I am not being sarcastic.

I am dead serious, and if I weren't, I would be a bald-faced liar and someone deserving of your “ignore” button vote (and everyone else's).

I now understand your role. You are a voice of America's conscience.

People may not like it, and think I'm out of my freakin' mind to say it, but I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart:

Thank you.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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I saw yugoslav soldiers line up muslim civilians and shoot them in the back of the head. I am trying to expose the hypocrisy because your country is commiting genocide of muslims, yet you critisize the US, the US does make some mistakes, but we dont usually line up bound muslims and shoot them in the back. Why should i be careful of what i say about your countries cival war? are you going to shoot americans in the back?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
Grossly Off-Topic

Souljah, I feel a bit silly saying this, but well, here goes.

I used to think of you as an anti-American disruptor and forum troll. Basically someone bent on dragging ATS into the muck

I wish to correct myself here, and publicly so.

I see things differently now, and no, I am not being sarcastic.

I am dead serious, and if I weren't, I would be a bald-faced liar and someone deserving of your “ignore” button vote (and everyone else's).

I now understand your role. You are a voice of America's conscience.

People may not like it, and think I'm out of my freakin' mind to say it, but I'm telling you this from the bottom of my heart:

Thank you.

Are you SURE you are NOT being Sarcastic?

I am a bit sceptic over this post of Yours.

But if you are being Honest, then - Appology Accepted!



And Thank You for realising that only thing I am anti is WAR.

Thats why I did not join the Army when I should - but I served as a civilan in a medical center, and I have seen plenty of Fights - but this time a fight between Life and Death and the very frontline. If you are not fast - somebody might die. And I liked that responsibility better then the one saying - if you dont shoot good 'nuff somebody might die. I prefer Saving Lives.

Thats why I tell my Friends NOT to go into the Army - but hell, in Armies all over the world the payrole is very good, and thats why people go join'em. In some countries in Africa, to be a soldier is Best Work you can find around. Where the hell is this world going to?

And today War is just Money, maN!

There is no Pride or Honor or Anything left.

Juts one rule - street-fight rule:

THERE ARE NO RULES.

And if you follow this rule to the Point, you are Number One.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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No Really


Originally posted by Souljah
Are you SURE you are NOT being Sarcastic?

Absolutely positive. If I am lying about this, then I am violating the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

I am very serious about not doing that, so make of it what you will.

I may not agree with you all the time. Heck, most of the time. Let's assume that.

What I'm saying is that this is not a bad thing, but vital to the future of free thought.

Hence my gratitude, even if we disagree on so many things.

I am coming to understand just how healthy that really is.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I saw yugoslav soldiers line up muslim civilians and shoot them in the back of the head. I am trying to expose the hypocrisy because your country is commiting genocide of muslims, yet you critisize the US, the US does make some mistakes, but we dont usually line up bound muslims and shoot them in the back. Why should i be careful of what i say about your countries cival war? are you going to shoot americans in the back?

I said before to BE careful, when talking about Civil War in Yugoslavia.

I was once a citizen of a country called Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia -SFRJ- but it fell apart into: Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia & Montenegro, Macedonia and thats how it is Today + Nomans Land.

And I come from Slovenia.

We did not shoot any Muslim civilans - on the contrary - we accepted thousands and thousands of refugees into our country, providing them food, shelter and protection of our state.

And alot of my friends came from Bosnia as refugees.

So please, be Very careful what you talk about - so you wont dig your own hole, like now.

But yes you are correct - there were Serbs and Croats and Bosnians killing each other.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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The View From Slovenia


Originally posted by Souljah
And I come from Slovenia.

Not to drag us off-topic, but what is your view of the U.S. intervention in your area?

I am sure you have commented on this elsewhere, but if you would, please indulge me.

I am truly interested in your assessment of U.S. intervention in the area so far.

And please, be honest.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Yes, it's true. Pick a conflict just about anywhere on the planet and you'll find muslims involved. Their effort to spread their convert or die religion is causing death and suffering everywhere it is introduced.

For an example of the so-called mentality behind the spread of 'islamofascism', look at this piece of work, souljah. He is basically threatening people on ATS for just talking about the latest war in the Balkans. Oh, and to be sure, muslims are involved in that war, too.

[edit on 6/4/2005 by centurion1211]



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I guess as usual one side view of what democracy is and stand for is all what the world needs to understand the good intentions of the mighty US.

And I will only have to add that "democracy is in the eye of the beholder"


As long as the Bush administration is the one spreading democracy is most be true.


[edit on 4-6-2005 by marg6043]



Marg6043, you are constantly bashing the U.S. and democracy. So, if you hate "your country" so much, why bother with your "I am an American" signature? Your ATS signature isn't enough to make you an American, it's all about what you think, say and do. You've said you're married to a soldier. Well, something doesn't ring true about that story either. No soldier (and I know quite a few) I've ever met would stay married to someone that says the things you do.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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I'll like to address the original topic.

First to Obi-Won, I want to know what YOUR GREAT IDEA is that will fix it? What do you recommend? Not going into Afghanistan and let Sh'ra law still be in place? You know, that great society where women are treated like cattle and al Qaeda camps are protected?

Do you expect Afghanistan to turn into a Conneticut suburb overnight?

Democracy. representative government, and a free market is the first step to a higher standard of living.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
The View From Slovenia


Originally posted by Souljah
And I come from Slovenia.

Not to drag us off-topic, but what is your view of the U.S. intervention in your area?

I am sure you have commented on this elsewhere, but if you would, please indulge me.

I am truly interested in your assessment of U.S. intervention in the area so far.

And please, be honest.

Things went from Bad to Worse - and NOBODY did anything about it.

I am not talking about just USA - also entire Europe and the United Nations watched as violence escelated until the point, when it was "too much" too see this kind of conflict to be present in Europe!

But they waited too long - just as today I watch the country of Sudan being torned apart by a civil war and power hungry warmongers who fuel them.

But Sudan is Far away and not really that important.

Yugoslavia had a very strategic position - the Balkans.

Sudan doesnt...

Despite 21 years of conflicts, more than 2 million dead, 6 million forced to flee their homes, thousands of women and children abducted and/or raped and hundreds of villages destroyed and relatives still missing, not one perpetrator of war crimes or crimes against humanity is known to have been brought to justice in Sudan.

What I have to say about US Intervention?

Too LATE!

Could have stopped much Destruction and Suffering if they wanted Eearlier.

IF They Wanted to do that...

Here is Slovenia there was barely a War - we call it the 10-Day War.

But the rest were not that Lucky as were we.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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Worse Late Than Never?


Originally posted by Souljah
What I have to say about US Intervention?

Too LATE!

If I understand this correctly then, you are not opposed to U.S intervention in the affairs of others, but are instead critical of the way it is done.

Is this a fair assessment on my part?



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

What I have to say about US Intervention?

Too LATE!

Could have stopped much Destruction and Suffering if they wanted Eearlier.

IF They Wanted to do that...

Here is Slovenia there was barely a War - we call it the 10-Day War.

But the rest were not that Lucky as were we.



Let me see if I get this strait. You title the thread with the death and destruction that follows US intervention and don't think its the right thing to do.

Then in the quote above you rail against the US saying intervention was too little, too late.

I'm just trying to figure out which side of the fence your on here. Are you saying the US shold NOT intervene in any situation or are you saying the US should intervene more often and more quickly.

This is not a jab or joke, i'm serious. It's a bit confusing where you stand on the issue. (I never claimed to be real intelligent)


Wupy



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Marg6043, you are constantly bashing the U.S. and democracy. So, if you hate "your country" so much, why bother with your "I am an American" signature?


Sorry centurion if I am not as blind as you to what the present administration of my country is doing to the world in the name of democracy.

You are still one of the few around here that still will defend the atrocities that are going on Iraq.

Shame, shame shame, if bashing me makes you happy keep on going it only shows the true person that you are and eventually as usuall you will lose your cool.

pity.

I guess bashing and pointing at me makes you feel that I am an easier target than Souljah or any other that agree with this thread.

Wrong choice fellow ATS member.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

I guess bashing and pointing at me makes you feel that I am an easier target than Souljah or any other that agree with this thread.


You misunderstand. I can understand people that maybe don't like the current administration or policies, but what I'm talking about is people that bash, bash, bash without ever offering anything constructive in opposition. That is taking the easy way out IMO and that's what I was taking you to task for. But please don't think I compare you in any way to souljah, kriz_4, oops, etc. They don't just want U.S. policy change, they obviously mean real harm to this country and I will take them on anytime (although souljah now seems afraid to respond to me because I will defeat his arguments every time) . Not the same as you at all, but I don't think you see that you are serving as a tool for them.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Yes, it's true. Pick a conflict just about anywhere on the planet and you'll find muslims involved. Their effort to spread their convert or die religion is causing death and suffering everywhere it is introduced.

Yeah and pick a conflict and youll find an american influence there...
Just because there the biggest relgion *corect me if wrong**


For an example of the so-called mentality behind the spread of 'islamofascism', look at this piece of work, souljah. He is basically threatening people on ATS for just talking about the latest war in the Balkans. Oh, and to be sure, muslims are involved in that war, too.
[edit on 6/4/2005 by centurion1211]

Threatning?
He said be carefuly because its a touchy subject, IT IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT!
He was warning the guy...




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