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Proud To Be Gay, Ashamed To Be Straight

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posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Thank you for the thorough reply, paulthefourth. I cannot say I have any idea what you experience or go through. I went through a questioning phase, an identity crisis time in my life, because I was called every derogatory and non-derogatory term for homosexuals through junior high and early high school. I'm not a sports guy, at least not into watching them. Bam, he must be gay. I wasn't all up on the ladies, sleeping around, or even really dating through my school career (I was unconfident, and the idea of talking to a woman I was attracted to terrified me.)

I don't want to come off as being holier than anyone. I am an awful sinner; I slip all the time, often in full knowledge of what I should do in a situation. I hope I have not come off as condemning homosexuals, but if I have, I apologize. When I started this thread, my attack wasn't against homosexuals, but the individuals who want special rights for some people and not for others. If you search for other threads I've started, you'll notice this theme comes up quite often in my posts, and is not directed at one group of individuals. Separate but equal really upsets me, and I try to bring it to as many people's attention as I can.

I will say that, according to my religion, homosexual intimacy is a sin. That doesn't mean I'm above you in any way, though. As I said, often I sin knowing what I'm doing is wrong as I decide and execute the wrong behavior. That is far worse, in my mind, than being in your situation where you believe what you're doing is acceptable. If anything, you'd be above me in the "Holy" field.

Given the options you had presented, though, I would have chosen the second. I actually inadvertently have, already. I've only had 3 girl friends in my life, and all three of those relationships lasted less than a year. The rest of the time, I have been "alone" as far as having an intimate (in my case, emotionally, not sexually) partner of the opposite sex. However, I have an incredible family and some of the coolest friends you can imagine. After the three breakups, there was a time when I felt lost and alone, but I really wasn't and realized it a couple months after. You can be without a life partner and still be emotionally fulfilled. You don't have to be lonely in those situations unless you see your own self worth as having to be validated by the acceptance of someone who falls in love with you.

I had fallen into that trap with my last relationship. It felt great to be important to someone in such a way, and somehow I forgot that I have two friends who are extremely important to me and I to them. When she left me out of the blue one day, I was crushed and believed myself to be worthless. I had invested all of my self worth in her approval, and when it wasn't there...

Now, today, I have willingly chosen that second option until I am certain my world will not revolve around my mate. It may not be a life-long decision, but then again, it may. Believe me, though; I am in no way miserable!

Thanks again for the great post. Thank you for opening up to us despite the potential threat of facing vile and horrible words being thrown your way for being so open. I commend you and you have gotten a way above from me.




posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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I don't want to pick a fight with you either.

And I want to be clear that don't I hate you or despise you or anything, just because I have different opinions from yours.

If I think you are wrong about some things--well hey, I think a lot of people around me are wrong, and they are not taking me very seriously, either!

One thing I found hilarious was your comment about how nobody should be doing public displays of affection--I couldn't agree more. I love my wife passionately; but she is the only one how needs to know just how much! And I really don't want to see anybody gettin freaky in public, or even coming close!

I have no doubt that you've always felt gay. And none of us can really control our feelings. Deny them, superficially; but not control them.

How you live out your desires is a choice to make. Whether or not to be in a relationship, and what kind of relationship to have are choices you're making about how to respond to your desires.

Personally, I don't think something as complicated as to how you'll live the rest of your life should ever be reduced to a simple "either/or" binary choice. But again, you'll be the one to decide what are even viable alternatives in the life you want to live.

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick on you, but I was struck by the fact that you wrote that you found female genitalia gross or disgusting or something like that (I cannot see your post right now while I type this.) And I don't mean to get all Freudian on you, so ignore this paragraph if you like. But I wonder where than comes from . . .

I think that heterosexuality is logical from a biological standpoint, while the homosexual drive seems, well, counterproductive.

I assume that you don't agree with my value-system, which is fine. I think you've made a definite set of choices for your life--choices you could un-make whenever you decided to.

I think a lot of agitation that the mainstream feel towards gays is that, like you, they feel like they are having someone else's morality forced upon them. Here's just one example:

Until 1973, the American Psychiatric Association listed Homosexuality as a neurosis in the DSM. It had finally caved in to pressure following a riot at the 1970 convention in San Francisco. Basically, four decades of research as to the causes of homosexuality were declared irrelevant because the APA couldn't deal with the political pressure brought to bear upon it.

In the same way, high school history books focus a page or more on the stonewall riot, but spend less than a paragraph on the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

A lot of the straight posters on this thread are probably venting frustration about having to bow to the dictates of a small minority that has seized the control of the cultural dialogue in America. Regardless of the ultimate truth of that view, it explains the rise of conservatism, as a response to many people's (the majority's?) disgust with being told that they are the ones who ought to change. That being in the mainstream is somehow shameful.

I think that a lot of points that liberals make are valid. The problem is that the fence-sitting portion of the public has less of an ear for those arguments, because they come after 30 years of a cultural elite telling the bulk of Americans that they suck.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Until 1973, the American Psychiatric Association listed Homosexuality as a neurosis in the DSM. It had finally caved in to pressure following a riot at the 1970 convention in San Francisco. Basically, four decades of research as to the causes of homosexuality were declared irrelevant because the APA couldn't deal with the political pressure brought to bear upon it.


Uhm, all research only proves what the "gay agenda" has been trying to say for years now. Being gay not being a choice, being gay being a STATE some are born in, just like being black is a state some are born in.
I am not sure what research you are talking about.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
One thing I found hilarious was your comment about how nobody should be doing public displays of affection--I couldn't agree more. I love my wife passionately; but she is the only one how needs to know just how much! And I really don't want to see anybody gettin freaky in public, or even coming close!


Dang it, I meant to comment on that, too! I, too, find public displays of affection disgusting. Yeah, you may be in love, but you don't have to express it by having a makeout session on the bus!



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Until 1973, the American Psychiatric Association listed Homosexuality as a neurosis in the DSM.


Uhm, all research only proves what the "gay agenda" has been trying to say for years now. Being gay not being a choice, being gay being a STATE some are born in, just like being black is a state some are born in.
I am not sure what research you are talking about.


If it is listed as a neurosis, that doesn't mean it's a choice. Do you think people choose to become neurotic? Do you think people choose to be schitsophrenic? I don't really know any of the research done into homosexuality, I'm just pointing out that neurosis isn't a choice, it's an imbalance in the brain.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Until 1973, the American Psychiatric Association listed Homosexuality as a neurosis in the DSM.


Uhm, all research only proves what the "gay agenda" has been trying to say for years now. Being gay not being a choice, being gay being a STATE some are born in, just like being black is a state some are born in.
I am not sure what research you are talking about.


If it is listed as a neurosis, that doesn't mean it's a choice. Do you think people choose to become neurotic? Do you think people choose to be schitsophrenic? I don't really know any of the research done into homosexuality, I'm just pointing out that neurosis isn't a choice, it's an imbalance in the brain.



Neurosis = behavior that impairs a person's ability to enjoy life and participate meanignfully in family and friendships. Usually, it represents a disordered thought process that can by changed by the patient in the course of talking to a therapist and/or sorting out their reasons for behavior. Treating a fear of heights is an example of a patient being involved in their own health.

Psychosis = usually assumed to be chemically based, and so severe as to impair daily functioning as an adult.


Neurosis can be treated with therapy, and a patient's Decision to work with treatment. Most alcoholics don't live in dumpsters; they do hold down regular jobs--they just make themselves and their homes miserable.


+++++


My point was that the "gay agenda" forced the APA to remove homosexuality as a possible diagnosis. You cannot diagnose a problem that doesn't exist. You cannot prescribe a treatment. You cannot bill insurance for attempting to change it. You also cannot get funding to research it.

As a matter of fact, homosexuality was the first sexual "anomally" to be researched, beginning even before freud, in the 1890's. A lot of Freud's own theories about sex grew from his conclusion that homosexuality represented an adolescent phase of development, that the individual never resolved or grew past.

Hey. It may or may not be bad science. My point was, it was deleted for political, rather than scientific reasons.

The move was made by having gay rioters seize the microphone and shout down opposition and threaten to beat scientists who voted to retain homosexuality as a diagnosis in the DSM II.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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here are some online articles refering to the delisting of homosexuality by the APA. Don't worry, all of them I list are "pro-gay" websites.

I found this how? by googling "APA homosexuality 1970"


www.psych.org...

www.soulforce.org...

www.lgbtrc.uci.edu/timeline/timeline_1970-79.pdf

www.baywindows.com...



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Thanks for welcoming the "newbie" to the thread.


I got some U2Us, I tried to reply to them but found out I couldn’t until I make at least 20 posts.

I know what follows is LONG – but it’s the TRUTH – Please feel free to ask me any questions that pop into your head.

Don't worry, It's not easy to offend me, I try to take everything as a joke up front - until I notice no one else is laughing. I’d rather laugh at things than let them get to me, but some things just tear at my heart and I feel like I can’t just let it slide. There’s nothing you can say to/about me that I haven’t already said to or thought about myself.

I'm glad I've found somewhere to chat about these things - I'm from a little back-woods town in North Carolina - as you can imagine, I don't have that many people to talk to about 'Homosexuality' (sorry, had to whisper, I'm at work - shh!)

I've read through almost all of the threads I could find concerning homosexuality, here and on other sites - I wanted to get a feel for how other people felt about it - what was acceptable to talk about - and find a way for me to talk about it constructively.

Now I know that ‘my view’ of things is just that – ‘My View’ – everyone’s experiences shape who and what they are, how they feel and how they deal with others. I cannot say that my way is better or worse than anyone else’s, but I can tell you about my journey – helping others to “walk in my shoes” is better than just expecting someone else to know where I’m coming from.

The discussion of homosexuality is just about the only thing that really gets to me - I have always let most stuff just roll off my back - but when people start talking about "the homo-gays" I know it's something I have to take a side on. Before I accepted the fact that I was gay I felt invisible just ignoring the issue – I felt like a liar when I’d join in on the homophobia, just because I was afraid not to – and felt like a TOTAL outcast if I showed any sympathy or understanding towards gays - But I have learned that expressing one's "side" by name-calling and extremism and even threats is not productive at all. So even though I sometimes want to scream till I'm red in the face and have that big vein on my forehead popping out, I try to keep things civil.

I cannot really tell you if I did or didn't "feel that way" all my life- I do know I have never felt any emotion or attraction that would make me consider myself “straight”, but as for when I “knew” I was gay, I really have no idea – I’m sure if I ask someone when they “knew” they were straight, it would be just as difficult to think of the exact moment you knew. When I was a kid, all I did was laugh and have fun and hang out with my friends from school and church. I never did anything that was considered a "sport" – never liked any of the manly macho stuff that would have been stereotypically boyish, and can’t really recall doing anything stereotypically ‘girley-man’ either. I played with G.I. Joe toys, Star Wars toys, Weebles (you remember, they’d wobble, but those bastards just wouldn’t fall down!), Lincon Logs, toy trains and musical instruments. - I was the class clown, the joker, the one that could make fun of himself BEFORE anyone else could, so it was a moot point to pick on me. I was the only boy to take Piano lessons in grade school, I did get picked on a little for that but even when the bullies heard me play the piano, they stopped picking, they seemed to like it – I guess music soothed those savage beasts.  I was the only one (boy or girl) that would have rather listened to classical music than hear that cheese-grater-on-my-eardrum Metallica or Guns and Roses and that corny, pickin’-and-a-grinnin’ country music - I grew up with a 'mommy and a diddy', and a half brother 13 years my senior - he was the football, baseball and basketball *star*, but was moved-out and married by the time I was old enough to hang out with him. I remember him having LOTS of girlfriends over at the house when I was a little boy - and how they would just fall in love with me cause I was just so darned cute (
) -and later learned I was the "bait" for him to land new chicks. Never got turned on by 'em, but hey, I was just a little kid - Didn't know if I was straight or gay then - didn't matter - little kids don't (and shouldn’t have to) think about that stuff.

I was raised in the "Southern Baptist" tradition, every time the church doors were open, I was there! I sang in the kids choir which was lead by Mama, made tapes of the sermons to take to the shut-ins, my Dad was the leader of the "Royal Ambassadors", I went around with the youth group putting tracts and fliers under people’s windshield wipers and was usually 'Mary's Baby's Daddy' in all the nativity scenes/plays we did. I usually didn't pay much attention to the sermons - but I do VIVIDLY remember when the preacher started with the "hellfire and brimstone" stuff - I was scared to death! - "come down at the end of the service and claim Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, OR BURN IN THE STANKY PITS OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!" Well, needless to say - after a few Sundays of hearing that guilt trip I was starting to get frightened - so when I was 11 (maybe 12) I got saved - I got baptized and was told I was acceptable in the eyes of God now – even got a monogrammed Bible from Grandma - - But still, I had no idea if I was straight or gay - had never thought about it - never thought about "sexuality" - sex was something that you giggled about if you heard anything about it - or got slapped for giggling about it if you did it in front of the adults. I’m assuming that's what a lot of 12-13 year olds went through. Not once did the church tell me anything about being gay or straight or any kind of “sexuality issues”

Then, glorious puberty hit me - LIKE A TON OF BRICKS!!!! - I was the first one in my class to have "extra hair" where there wasn't any before - first to get zits, first to get taller than the teacher - first to start crying stinky tears from my armpits. THAT WAS FUN!!!! But still, I had no hormonal/social attraction towards females (or males for that matter) - I just wanted to hang out and play video games and listen to music and tell jokes and that was about it.

Later on, when I turned 15 or so, Our church would split up over money and politics – and that’s not what religion is supposed to be about. I’ve come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with religion, but there’s A LOT wrong with ORGANIZED religion. It’s all about the number of members and how much money you can get from them.

Then when I was 16ish - I started to notice all the other guys were trying to get closer to the girls - It was so funny to me - they were all shy and nervous, covered in zits, awkward, all attempting to act older than they were (so I thought) - I "knew" they were just acting like they thought they should from seeing the older kids "dating" and such. But still, I had no attraction to girls - didn't want to try and get closer to them - the thought never even crossed my mind - even when I thought everyone else was doing it just to fit in, I didn't feel that calling - I'd do all the other stuff to fit in - but it just seemed like, for me, that chasing the girls was about as useful as chasing a parked car. No need to run to it, it's not going anywhere and chasing a parked car too fast usually busts up your face.

Suddenly, all of my friends had girlfriends - None of them knew what to do with em, but they had 'em - I had known for years "what to do with them" - when most of my friends were out "chasing tail" I was actually paying attention in school (I know, weird huh?) I knew that Tab A went in Slot B –and that’s how you made a baby - it didn't appeal to me - didn't disgust me either - but I knew how things worked - I knew where "babies" came from – I knew the mechanics, but NOT the nuances of romance, foreplay, what an “orgasm” was. But still, didn't think “hey I wanna do THAT!” – or “EWWWWWW” I just had no desire or repulsion to participate in “mating rituals” -

Here's what I DID know - I would have rather been hanging out with “the guys” than with one girl - I knew that one day I was expected to pick a girl, drag her back to my cave by her hair, grunt some words in front of a preacher and make as many babies as possible - but I NEVER once had the urge to do ANYTHING like that. I DID know that I felt a longing to be with my friends, all of which were guys, but I thought it was just a “best friends” kinda thing – I didn’t think about their bodies or doing anything with ‘em – I just wanted to be around them. I do remember thinking “why aren’t any of the guys jealous of me when I’m around their girlfriends? Because most of the guys I knew got asked by other guys “why you lookin’ at my girl?” Then a fight would break out (also funny to me). Every fight I ever witnessed was 2 guys fighting over a girl – I never “got” that – Why didn’t they just let the girl pick one? Was that what it meant to be straight? I dunno. Seemed kinda stupid to me.

Then my best friend started staying at my house a lot. He was at my house every other night – and I went to his house every other night – We just hung out, watched TV, snacked and lounged around the pool. Now neither of us had any extra beds, guest rooms or anything, so we slept in the same bed. That was just normal to me because that’s what “friends sleeping over” did. We kept on opposite sides, didn’t get too close, but I do remember laying there, on my stomach almost every night, trying to hide my erection – I knew it was normal to wake up with “morning wood” because I’d heard other boys talking about it, but I’d NEVER experienced an erection other than morning wood. EVERY NIGHT we went to bed and I’d just lay there, unable to go to sleep, wondering what was wrong with me because I was “aroused” and didn’t know why. I didn’t think I was attracted to him – I mean that wasn’t how it was supposed to be. After a few months, I got to where I could actually fall asleep, but I felt uncomfortable – afraid – nervous that if I fell asleep I might roll over and he’d know I had a “stiffie” – I did manage to get to sleep one night and had my first “wet dream” – I woke up suddenly, didn’t remember dreaming or anything , just waking up and knowing something had happened – I didn’t even know what a wet dream was – I got up and went to the bathroom and was freaked the hell out! I seriously thought there was snot in my underwear! I was thinking “how the hell did snot get in my underwear?!?!?!” I didn’t know what semen looked like but I knew that the only other thing I’d ever seen that looked like that had come out of my nose on a really bad pollen day! I remember for WEEKS wondering what that stuff was and, if it was snot, how did it get from my nose to the inside of my underwear?

I guess you could say I was sheltered, naïve or just a late-bloomer – but I didn’t consciously think about sex or “relations” or “getting it on” with anyone until I was in college. Never masturbated till I was 22-23, and when I started to think about it, fantasize about it – it was always with a guy. On the few occasions that I tried to think about a woman while enjoying myself, I’d lose my erection and couldn’t get it back till I started imagining a guy again. I was attracted to their shape, their scent, body hair, their muscles, the sweat that dripped off of ‘em, their strength in those powerful legs, the way a muscular guys ripped stomach looked – and that made me feel so ashamed, so wronged, like someone had punched me in the gut and wouldn’t stop – I wanted to know why I was like this, and why I couldn’t change. I didn’t feel bad about having those feelings, I felt bad because I knew other people didn’t do that – I felt bad because I thought that if I told anyone it would definitely mean losing my friends, getting a good beating or even worse – I couldn’t sleep at night because my nerves were just so bad – I wanted to be free, I wanted to shout it out that “I’m DIFFERENT! please don’t kill me!” but I couldn’t - So I just shut myself up in my room – dropped out of college – went to work full time to pay the bills and planned to just live my life alone and never let anyone know why I had become a hermit. I even remember thinking “I can wait till Mama and Daddy are dead so I can start to explore my sexuality without causing them shame.” Do you have any idea what that can do to someone?

I knew I didn’t want anything to do with the ladies or their privates, and I was curious about what it felt like to be with another guy – what would it be like to freely be with another man that wanted to be with me too. But I stuck to my plan of “I’ll just ‘not’ be sexual until my parents are dead – then I won’t be ashamed about it.” My parents own a small business in a not-very-tolerant town – I didn’t want them to suffer loss just because people knew they had a “Fag” for a son. I was afraid if people knew, I would be at risk for getting the crap beat out of me, being shut off from family and friends, being known as the “immoral sinner that’s going straight to hell!” I was afraid that even if I could keep some of my friends, that they would suffer for “letting” a fag hang out with them, worried that they would lose friends because of me, To me, friendship meant everything, because that’s all I thought I would ever have – and I did not want to be the cause of anyone else losing a friend – so I shut everyone out – I lost my sense of humor – I stopped laughing – I started to let myself go, I didn’t care if I shaved or wore clean clothes, I didn't care if I’d taken a shower or not – everything stopped mattering. I felt unwelcome or in-the-way when I was with my friends so I stopped hanging out with my friends or going places with them - AND STILL - I had not admitted to myself that “I’m gay” - I couldn’t admit it to myself, I WOULDN’T! - Every fiber in my being knew it was true but my brain just wasn’t having any of that – I knew it but I had no idea how to go about changing it. So I just tried my best to turn off my sexuality.

I got the call to come back home when I was about 26, to come back and work for my family’s business – There was nothing for me in the college town I lived in – all my friends had graduated and moved away – I couldn’t go out and meet new people, I was afraid that they wouldn’t want to be my friend because I was gay, and if they didn’t think it, I’d eventually have to admit it to them and I’d lose another friendship. So I moved back to my hometown, nobody knew it, I didn’t go out – I wouldn’t even go to Wal-Mart because I didn’t want people recognizing me and asking me all those questions that just turned my stomach inside out – all those “when you gonna get a girlfriend?” and “you’re such a nice guy, how some girl hasn’t snatched you up I’ll never know” and I just had to smile and pretend that it didn’t feel like a punch to the gut – just blush and pretend I was too shy to put myself out on the market. How do you tell people that have no clue you’re gay to stop asking you questions about being with girls? What would a straight man say if someone that didn’t know he was straight asked him where his “boyfriend” was? Someone would probably get the living poo knocked out of them. How do you handle those situations? I never wanted to make someone uncomfortable so I just had to swallow it and smile and blush and nod and keep on going.

About 4 years ago – I thought It couldn’t hurt to try and find someone that was like me, if for nothing else than to have a friend that knew what I was going through – I met a few people, nobody I was interested in being friends with – most people that replied were too “out there” – I was looking for something discreet, just trying to finally meet another gay person. I felt like I must be the only gay man out there that didn’t want to dress up in drag and wear makeup – or act too feminine – I’m definitely not feminine, unless you consider having 5 O’clock shadow at 10 a.m. as being “feminine.” But I found that when you go in search of gay people, that’s what you find – but only because they’re the only one’s that advertise it! All the other “regular joe” gay guys couldn’t put themselves out there because we were all afraid of being lumped in with the “feather boa, pink pumps” gays that are what mainstream America thinks we are all like. It’s horrible being a part of something that most people stereotypically think is a BAD BAD thing - and knowing that associating yourself with any part of the truth will get you associated with ALL the bad myths and stereotypes that go along with it is enough to make you want to pretend that you’re against it too. I try not to let those feeling take over my mind, and it’s hard because I DO want to “fit in” to what the rest of the world considers “acceptable” – but I know what I am on the inside, and I don’t think I should have to pretend to be something different just to make other people happy. I’ve been with my boyfriend for just over 3 years now – it is hard being in a relationship when you know that most of the world considers it “sick” but it feels right to me – and I know that If I tried to fake a relationship with a woman, My internal conflict would be MUCH MUCH greater that it is now.

I know that the first thing most people “against” homosexuality will say is that “You felt that way because you KNEW it was WRONG!!!!!!” well – no, I didn’t “know” it was wrong – I’ve been told and made to feel it was wrong. But I’ve never felt like I’ve ever really done anything that bad. I’ve never physically or mentally abused anyone, I’ve never “pushed” myself on someone. I’ve never “gone after” a straight man – I’ve never tried to make a straight person gay - I’ve always tried to “do unto others as I’d have done unto me” but I always add “if I were in their shoes” to it – not many people try to imagine what it’s really like to be in someone else’s position – I’m one of those that can’t help it – I see the hurt inside other people – I see what makes their soul weep – it’s never pretty – but it’s usually something that would go away or would have never been there in the first place if everyone had a little more understanding in their heart.

Sorry So Long Winded



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Damn gays... Spoiling everybody else's fun who isn't gay...

Ruiners and haters of straights.






posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Paul, ya still made a choice. You seem like you were a very confused person growing up. Why did all of your problems seem to focus on sexual things?
When I was a young lad, my problems were why I couldn't find my GI Joe men, how many more zits were gonna pop up on my face, the school cafeteria food was so gross, and school grades. Every "gay" person on this site that "claims" to have been gay since a small child say that their problems were sexual in nature early on in life. I'm seeing a pattern forming here.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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You just don't get it do you? You still think I made a choice? You just can't wrap your "straight and narrow" brain around the fact that NOT EVERYONE'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS JUST LIKE YOURS!!!!!! Are you telling me it would have been preferable to go with one of the other options, the option where I'm supposed to have picked a woman to "trick" into marrying me just so I could show everone else how "straight" I was? Or the option where I was supposed to spend the rest of my life alone?

I imagine you're just utterly disgusted with the thought of having sex with someone of the same gender, and I can totally understand that - THAT'S HOW I FEEL ABOUT SEX WITH A WOMAN - I couldn't do it, wouldn't do it - I'd be lying if I said I found anything attractive about a woman. That's not a choice I made - When my college roomates were sitting around watching Baywatch, I had to pretend to focus on the jigglies bouncing around on the screen, even though they didn't do ANYTHING for me. I wanted to look at the guys on the screen, but I knew I'd better not be caught looking at them. Now I'll admit I'm not macho, I don't like pain. I've never been in a fight and I do fear getting beaten up. I thought that if my roommates knew (or even suspected) I was gay, I would get beaten to within-an inch of my life. I realize now, thinking like that is the same thing as the way homophobes feel about us. And for that I'm ashamed. I was just as guilty of stereotyping ALL straight people as "gay bashers" as most of them are guilty of stereotyping ALL gays as "evil sinners".

I'd cried myself to sleep every night for 3 or 4 years - flunked out of college because that's all I could think about - went to the campus psychologist to get help, but still couldn't admit to him I "thought" I was gay - I didn't want ANYONE to know it - I didn't see the point in going on with life if I was a fag - I knew how people felt about it, I'd pretended to feel that way long enough to know. I got on my knees and prayed to God to "fix" me - I even tried to bargain with God, praying: "God, If you'll make me straight, I'll devote my life to you and the church and become a preacher - just please make me attracted to women, let me feel like all my friends do, let me be or at least feel normal PLEASE!!!!!!" (that's how you get child-molesting preists) But still, not for one second of my life have I ever felt any attraction to a woman or felt "straight".

When it came to the gender I prefered - I HAD NO FRIGGIN' CHOICE!!!!!!! If I could have "CHOSEN", I WOULD HAVE PICKED HETEROSEXUALITY!!!!!!!!!! I want to be "normal" - I want to fit in - I want the "right" to sit in my "straight" ivory tower and condemn all those homo-gays for their "sinful" behavior. Before I thought poeple suspected me of being "a gay" I did more than my fair share of homo-bashing, not physically, I've never laid a hand on anyone else - but all the things I said just so other people's "gaydar" didn't point in my direction, I'm much more ashamed of that than being gay. I'm not "proud" to be gay, not with the way I'm looked down upon for it. I don't feel bad one bit about being gay, but the way most people look down their noses at us makes me feel worthless. I feel bad for all the years I wasted lying to myself, but at least I don't feel guilty, becuase I NEVER ONCE tricked a female by pretending to be attracted to her just so I could fit in with straight people. I'm being true to myself, I just wish I hadn't beat myself up so much back then.

A few years ago I had a choice - you probably don't care, but I'm going to tell you anyway.

I had to choose between just going on and accepting the fact that I was gay and trying to figure out what to do next - or blowing my brains out with a shotgun - I didn't think being gay would send me to Hell, but I was pretty sure that killing myself would. That's about all I cling to from my religious up-bringings. If there's a Hell, I pretty much feel that the only sure-fire way be sent there is to kill someone else or yourself.

I was prepared to end my own life just to "not be gay" -

THAT'S HOW I KNOW MY SEXUAL ORIENTATION WASN'T A CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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I can't reply to U2Us yet - I need about 5 more posts - but thanks for the supportive words

It's good to know that there are some people out there that can see things from more than one "straight and narrow" view.

I'm sure most of the Holier than thou think I know nothing of religion and I'm just a disease-spreading heathen that "chose" to go and be "evil" - but I was raised Southern Baptist, TRUST ME - I know a li'l sumptin-sumptin 'bout religion. Southern Baptists have just about the same amount of strictness and guilt-trippin as the Catholics, just without all the kneeling, rituals and silly costumes - and we only had to eat stale squares of white bread (I'm talkin' Wonder-Bread here) and drink warm grape juice on the fifth Sunday of the few months that had one. I think the only reason we did that kind of "communion" is some slick salesman tricked a deacon into buying pews that had those little mini cup holders attached to the Hymn Book racks.


It just saddens me how some people use religion as an "acceptable" excuse to keep bigotry going strong.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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And it saddens me that some people still refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. They throw blame off on things like "I was born this way", "my genes make me this way", "hatred made me this way", "I can't help the way I feel". If you can't help the way you feel, then who can? It is not natural to have sexual feelings for a member of the opposite sex.
You have been misinformed about the hell thing as well. According to God's word, homosexuality is a sin, if you do not repent then hell is the destination. I'm sorry that you feel that the only option you had was homoness or suicide, that had to have sucked. You did have another option though.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by paulthefourth
It's good to know that there are some people out there that can see things from more than one "straight and narrow" view.


I won't send you a U2U then, but I'll tell you right here, I'm sure the majority of the people here on ATS are forward-thinking and progressive enough to not be concerned with your sexuality.
We're not sad about it, we don't think it's 'unnatural', we're not condemning you to hell, and we won't thrust our religious views on you.


There are a few, though, who will. And they may do it repeatedly and with a loud voice. Just so you know.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by deesw
And it saddens me that some people still refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. They throw blame off on things like "I was born this way", "my genes make me this way", "hatred made me this way", "I can't help the way I feel". If you can't help the way you feel, then who can? It is not natural to have sexual feelings for a member of the opposite sex.
You have been misinformed about the hell thing as well. According to God's word, homosexuality is a sin, if you do not repent then hell is the destination. I'm sorry that you feel that the only option you had was homoness or suicide, that had to have sucked. You did have another option though.



OK - I'll take responsibility for it . . . " I'M A FLAMING HOMO!" - happy now?

I'm "responsible" because I've never had unprotected sex.

I've done nothing wrong because it's consensual sex with another ADULT.

It's natural for me - because that's the only way I've ever felt -

If you CAN help the way you feel, I know you wouldn't want to do this BUT CAN YOU FEEL SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO THE SAME SEX???? no?, didn't think so - so how do you think I can just flip it on and off like a light switch?

And I NEVER said I felt like that from birth - No one knows who they're going to be sexually attracted to untill atleast puberty, duh! -

I was told MANY different things about what sends you to hell, but with 10 thousand religions all saying something different, I've chosen to ignore all the rules and regulations of "organized" religion, since they're just in it for the money anyway. If the only "rule" I've got left is "don't kill others or myself" I'd say that's a pretty darn good one

What sucks even worse is having to listen to people telling me I'm going to hell -

And I hope I don't get kicked out for this next one, but it's no more insulting than being told I'm going to hell for eternity.

According to Peter Griffin's word from 'Family Guy' - "You can kiss the fattest part of my @-$-$!"

Sorry, us gays tend to get a little dramatic sometimes.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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"Son, Why did you steal that car"?
"I'm sorry your honor, stealing is all I've ever felt like doing since I was a kid". " That makes it ok right"? "well son I'll accept it and tolerate it, here have your own holiday for it".

WHATEVAAAA



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by deesw
"Son, Why did you steal that car"?
"I'm sorry your honor, stealing is all I've ever felt like doing since I was a kid". " That makes it ok right"? "well son I'll accept it and tolerate it, here have your own holiday for it".

WHATEVAAAA


Stealing a car is against the law.

Homosexuality is not against the law.

Your analogy is fatally flawed.

(and not just for the obvious reason. Do we really have to re-hash the difference?)



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Geez it's been ages since I posted in this nasty little thread.

I just wanted to thank Paul for being so open about this, as a Christian who has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. And for the Christians who do have a problem; that is your right.

What is not your right is to push it on other people and try to make them feel like they are sinners going to Hell. :shk:

Read your Bible again, Matthew 7 in particular:

Matthew 7:3-5


And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

and Matthew 7:21-23


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Come on people, it's none of your business. And Jesus really doesn't want you to point out other people's 'sins' to them.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
I just wanted to thank Paul for being so open about this, as a Christian who has absolutely no problem with homosexuality. And for the Christians who do have a problem; that is your right.

What is not your right is to push it on other people and try to make them feel like they are sinners going to Hell. :shk:


Ahhhh... A real Christian. How refreshing.
I know you're out there, but sometimes the extremists who have hijacked Jesus' name speak so loud it's hard to hear you. But I want to recognize and thank you for your voice.

Surely we can all be proud of who we are (gay or straight, black or blue, woman or man) without resorting to demeaning those who are different that we are.

Thank you Duzey for those wonderful reminders.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Ahhhh... A real Christian. How refreshing.
I know you're out there, but sometimes the extremists who have hijacked Jesus' name speak so loud it's hard to hear you. But I want to recognize and thank you for your voice.

*blush*
Thank you for the kind words.


Matthew 7 is a passage that I take very seriously. I think it is the most important passage in the Bible and I was raised in a family that feels the same way. I take it so seriously that I actually feel kind of guilty for making that statement because it is not my place to say anything about another persons beliefs. That's why I hardly ever post in religious topics.


The only reason I even posted is because after reading Paul's story, I wanted to cry. It tears my heart out to know that he is living with this much pain just because some people feel they have the right to impose their belief systems on others. We don't have that right, it's not our place and, most importantly, it is absolutely none of our business! I wish that Paul and his partner could be free to just be who they are. Because that's how God made them.

Paul, when and if you ever have the financial ability, I think you and your partner should take a trip on one of those 'gay only' vacations. I think it would do a world of good for you and your partner to be able to spend some time with a large group of gay people, people who know how you feel. You could both let down your guard and just be yourselves for a while. The people who operate these trips are extremely discreet and there are several different types of trips available. Just think how much fun it would be to spend the night dancing with your partner with 3000 other people who only notice you because they are checking you out!




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