It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A Fresh Start: Masonry Good or Evil.

page: 4
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by Kyuudousha
I agree with the sentiments of 'good' and all the rest of it but there is no getting away from the fact that Masons will tend towards doing business with other Masons if possible. They will help each other out where they can, if they can. It's human nature after all.


This is true, but it hardly has anything to do with being a mason! ALL people do this. We would all rather work with someone who we know, whom we trust and whom we know deserves our business. You make it sound like all masons do this, which they certainly don't, and also make it sound like this is specific to Freemasonry, which is absurd. EVERY ORGANIZATION, not just Freemasonry.



Certainly Freemasonry can be used for 'back scratching' should you so wish. Why waste time and effort denying it?


I am not denying it. I am telling you that it is not what Fresemasonry is about. You called it a back-scratching club. This implies that this is all Freemasons do. That very sentiment is absurd. Freemasonry is a HUGE fraternity, with BEAUTIFULLY RICH rituals, symbolism, language, art, history and membership and REMARKABLY PROFOUND teachings and messages. It is not a "back-scratching club".



I think that this is where a lot of this paranoia regarding the Masons stems from. In this rather cynical world in which we all live now (unfortunately) people don't believe that other people will do things for the good of others anymore.


I think you are absolutely correct. People can't accept that Freemasons believe they better themselves through charity. They insist that there must be some hidden purpose behind it all. This is further corroborated by the misconception people have with Freemasonry's secrecy. "Why are they so secretive if they're only doing charity work?!?"




posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 04:07 AM
link   
Have found the quote function now...

This is true, but it hardly has anything to do with being a mason! ALL people do this. We would all rather work with someone who we know, whom we trust and whom we know deserves our business. You make it sound like all masons do this, which they certainly don't, and also make it sound like this is specific to Freemasonry, which is absurd. EVERY ORGANIZATION, not just Freemasonry.

I never said that at all. I obviously mentioned the Freemasons because this is a discussion thread about the Masons. I am well aware that back scratching will go on in all forms of any society. I just pointed out that it was human nature and NOT specific to the Masons.

I am not denying it. I am telling you that it is not what Fresemasonry is about. You called it a back-scratching club. This implies that this is all Freemasons do. That very sentiment is absurd. Freemasonry is a HUGE fraternity, with BEAUTIFULLY RICH rituals, symbolism, language, art, history and membership and REMARKABLY PROFOUND teachings and messages. It is not a "back-scratching club".

I think you have read far too much into this. I never stated that this is ALL the Masons do at all. I expect the Masons are a kin to the Rotary club with their charitable works and so on.

Anyhow, this thread is about whether the Masons are Good or Evil and in my view they are neither. What would seem like a good cause to some would be considered dubious to others. It's all down to your perspective really.

[edit on 6-6-2005 by Kyuudousha]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 06:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by Cug

Is Free Masonry good, evil, neither?


I think the Masons are good they do good works and help each other out. I don't think that many Masons will take the time to read Morals and Dogma all the way through though. I know 32 deg Masons who have not read it. I think most masons would wrather be doing something charitable or playing cards or having a cook out than burying thier face in Mystic writings. I think M&D only points to other deeper writings though and does not give away too many secrets. I do recall somewhere it said once a year some group sacrificed 33 victims at once I believe it was around Easter. Thats a lot of unhapy folks yall. I have read it and am starting over. I joined Masonry because I was interested in Mystesism. I am an anylytacal person and observe everything and have found it wrather time consuming.



Perhaps they do suffer for lack of women I believe women to be the soul motivative force behind man. I find myself motivated all the time and I ask myself why am I doing this chore or task, this wasn't in my plans and come to find out its only cause the wife wanted it done that I'm doing it. I had no intentions of getting it done.




[edit on 8-6-2005 by TgSoe]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 12:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kyuudousha
I never said that at all. I obviously mentioned the Freemasons because this is a discussion thread about the Masons. I am well aware that back scratching will go on in all forms of any society. I just pointed out that it was human nature and NOT specific to the Masons.


Well, you never actually pointed that out, but I understand what you're trying to say.



I think you have read far too much into this. I never stated that this is ALL the Masons do at all. I expect the Masons are a kin to the Rotary club with their charitable works and so on.


Nnot exactly like rotary club, or any other fraternal organization. It's very different in MANY different ways.



What would seem like a good cause to some would be considered dubious to others. It's all down to your perspective really.


I agree.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:26 PM
link   
I have a question for our renound resident masons.

Does Masonry associate itself with the "All Seeing Eye" symbol as so many web sites have alluded to?








And, what are your thoughts concerning the Jewish mystical "Merkabah"?

[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]

[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have a question for our renound resident masons.

Does Masonry associate itself with the "All Seeing Eye" symbol as so many web sites have alluded to?


The "Eye Of Providence," or "All Seeing Eye" symbolically represents Deity, or the Great Architect Of The Universe. Implying that there is something sinister by "associating" Freemasonry and this symbol further illustrates your complete lack of comprehension regarding the Fraternity.

Spare us the “God of Freemasonry” tangent, the “Eye” is a universal application of the individual’s faith.

An "alluding" website:

www.masonicinfo.com...

All Seeing Monkeys, not just for TGAOTU anymore...


[edit on 8/6/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have a question for our renound resident masons.

Does Masonry associate itself with the "All Seeing Eye" symbol as so many web sites have alluded to?


The "Eye Of Providence," or "All Seeing Eye" symbolically represents Deity, or the Great Architect Of The Universe. Implying that there is something sinister by "associating" Freemasonry and this symbol further illustrates your complete lack of comprehension regarding the Fraternity.

Spare us the “God of Freemasonry” tangent, the “Eye” is a universal application of the individual’s faith.

An "alluding" website:

www.masonicinfo.com...

All Seeing Monkeys, not just for TGAOTU anymore...


Sorry, I can spare you nothing, the IRS got it all.........


Now, on to my second question, please
"And, what are your thoughts concerning the Jewish mystical "Merkabah"?

Is the light of the Merkabah the light that masonry alludes to? Is Illumination, being in the presents, of the Merkabah?

[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 03:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Is the light of the Merkabah the light that masonry alludes to? Is Illumination, being in the presents, of the Merkabah?


I do not know who Merkabah is, nor do I believe he has anything to do with Freemasonry. The "light" that Freemasonry alludes to is UNDERSTANDING and KNOWLEDGE. Again, if you are trying to imply somethinng sinister by this, you're wasting your time.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 03:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Is the light of the Merkabah the light that masonry alludes to? Is Illumination, being in the presents, of the Merkabah?


I do not know who Merkabah is, nor do I believe he has anything to do with Freemasonry.


Here is a good explanation:
www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

I wasn't sure what it was either.. pretty interesting.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Thanks Justme74, it is the ball park.

Sebatwerk, here is a link for you to educate yourself on the Merkabah

Merkabah

Please review the material and then give me your educated opinion on this subject.


"The Ma'aseh Merkabah should not be taught to any one except he be wise and able to deduce knowledge through wisdom ('gnosis') of his own"



The Merkabah mysteries, which remained the exclusive property of the initiated ones, the "Ẓenu'im" or "Ḥashsha'im" (see Essenes), have been preserved chiefly in the Enoch literature of the pre-Christian centuries, and in the "Hekalot" of the geonic time, known also as the "Merkabah" and "Enoch Books"



Such spiritualistic experiences through mystic rites had their origin in Egypt rather than in Persia. Jamblichus ("De Mysteriis," iii. 4, 5) describes the optic and acoustic illusions under which the Egyptian mystic labored as if they were realities, and at the same time he states that in the ecstatic state brought about by magic songs and proper environment the soul is encompassed by a chariot of light


]

[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 04:23 PM
link   
Peace 'All Seeing Eye'.




Originally posted by All Seeing Eye






The symbols you mention, were broken down to a degree in this thread:

Kemetic Symbolism of the Salt Lake Masonic Temple


According to my understanding, the Kemetic symbol of the All Encompassing Divinity or Winged Sun-Disk, is where the Kabbalistic idea of the Ain Soph Aur or Solar Absolute comes from.




Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

And, what are your thoughts concerning the Jewish mystical "Merkabah"?




Gnostic Glossary


Mercabah (Hebrew) Literally, “chariot.” Refers to the Soul the Initiate must build.


“With patience ye will possess thy souls.” – Yeshua Hamashiah


Sahu (Egyptian) The Egyptian Sahu is the same as the Greek To Soma Heliakon, the Hebrew Merkabah; it is the Physical, Astral, Mental and Causal Solar Bodies as a whole.

To Soma Heliakon (Greek) Literally, “The Golden Body of the Solar Man.”






This is the one who has raised the Five Kundalini Serpents(the other two are never fallen).

That is, one who has passed the Initiations of Malkuth, Yesod, Hod, Netzach and Tiphereth.

It is taught that this one has the choice to enter Nirvana.

To incarnate The Christ however, one has to renounce Nirvana and keep working as a Boddhisattva, by taking the vow to liberate all Sentient Beings from the Wheel of Suffering(Samsara) until there are none left to Liberate.


I would suggest studying Kabbalah if you really want to know about it.

It's not as "tenebrous" or "Satanic" as you think it may be(or at all for that matter).

You'll see that if everyone studied the Tree of Life, of which life itself is based on; the World would obviously be a much better place.


Gnostic Kabbalah



HOTEP



[edit on 8-6-2005 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 05:16 PM
link   
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.

As has been said before, women are the driving force behind men.
"only cause the wife wanted it done that I'm doing it. I had no intentions of getting it done"

And yet, where do we find an ABUNDANCE of Feminine reference?

Well, there is the Mother Lodge, for one...

She also quietly motivates men to do her bidding. If they so choose, they can benefit from listening to her.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 05:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by akilles
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.


What? Is there something wrong with having something for yourself? I don't see it. akilles, are you married, if so, for how long?

BTW, how many things are out there for women specifically, myriads. Why is one thing for men alone a bad thing?

As to the secrecy, I don't have a problem with it. What they do is none of my business as it doesn't affect my life. I affect my life, hell, my wife affects my life more than the Masons do. Sheesh.



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 06:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by akilles
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.


What? Is there something wrong with having something for yourself? I don't see it. akilles, are you married, if so, for how long?

BTW, how many things are out there for women specifically, myriads. Why is one thing for men alone a bad thing?


As to the secrecy, I don't have a problem with it. What they do is none of my business as it doesn't affect my life. I affect my life, hell, my wife affects my life more than the Masons do. Sheesh.


I really cant see where this line of thought came from. If its your intention to covertly invite us out of the thread with the Merkabah information, so be it. Ill start a new thread........


[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 07:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by akilles
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.

As has been said before, women are the driving force behind men.
"only cause the wife wanted it done that I'm doing it. I had no intentions of getting it done"

And yet, where do we find an ABUNDANCE of Feminine reference?

Well, there is the Mother Lodge, for one...

She also quietly motivates men to do her bidding. If they so choose, they can benefit from listening to her.


This is completeley absurd! I agree with Intrepid, what's wrong with having a men's only club!?!? There's TONS of women-only clubs, channels, gyms, books, shows, etc etc etc.

How is this ANY kind of criticism? You're absolutely out of your mind, trying to find ANYTHING you can to criticise Freemasonry. Give it up already.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 06:19 AM
link   
I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with an all male group and I think I can see the wisdom in having one.


To clarify, I was just making a connection to 33 and the Masons with that M&D quote here is the exact quote. -

The Gothic Mysteries were carried Northwestward from the East, by Odin; who, being a great warrior, modelled and varied them to suit his purposes and the genius of his people. He placed over thier celebration twelve Hierophants, who were alike Priests, counsellors of State, and Judges from whose decision there was no appeal. He held the numbers 3 and 9 in peculiar veneration, and was probably himself the Indian Buddha, Every thrice-three months, thrice -three victims were sacrificed to the Tri-une God.

The Goths had three great festivals; the most magnificent of which commenced at the winter solstice, and was celebrated in honor of Thor, the Prince of the Power of the air. Da,da,da,da.

Thor was was the Sun, the Egyptian Osiris and Kneph the Phoenician Bel or Baal.

M&D p 368



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 12:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by akilles
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.


www.hfaf.org...

www.co-masonry.org...

www.droit-humain.org...

I hereby put it to you, Akilles, that you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.



BTW - freemasonry isn't a secret society.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 01:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I really cant see where this line of thought came from. If its your intention to covertly invite us out of the thread with the Merkabah information, so be it. Ill start a new thread........


[edit on 8-6-2005 by All Seeing Eye]


I have no idea where this came from, I'm not allowed an opinion? I stand by what I said, what's wrong with a society for men only? If my innocent post has you on the defensive, well, that say something to credibillity. BTW, you know I'm not a Mason, nor do I speak for them. I can read and think though and this(society) seems logical to me.



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 04:52 AM
link   
I still can't understand why people have such a downer on the Masons.

Could anybody expand on this for me?

The way I see it is that it is a society that anyone* can join if you had the desire to do so. There is official information everywhere on their websites. The Masons that I know haven't even made it a secret that they're members. By this I don't mean that they shout it around either, but when I asked the question they just gave me an honest answer.

I have expressed an interest and I'm going along to a gavel night at our local lodge in the near future to hopefully find out more about them and, should I wish to, perhaps join. This seems a far more realistic way to increase your knowledge about something than to just say:

'Masons are evil and taking over the world'
'Oh? Why say you that then'
'Well it's well known fact'
'Where did this fact come from then?'
'It's all over the internet, innit?'

In other words, he hasn't answered the question because it's just heresay (Blimey! Only one letter away from something else!) and rumour. The only resistance I have had against this is from the mother-in-law who is a devout, verging on fundamentalist, Christian and thinks that they are evil. She did, however, attend a Templar gathering which I found interesting due to the John the Baptist link where, allegedly, they reverred the Baptist above Christ, and she saw nothing wrong with that...

I reckon that if people put half the time and effort that they spend trying to find non-existant conspiracies within the Freemasons into something more useful the world would be a much fuzzier, kinder place to live...


*Male, admittedly, but I see no problem with this, but that can wait until another rant....



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 06:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by akilles
Number one criticism that is indefensible, besides the crime of secrecy already mentioned:
Lack of women.


www.hfaf.org...

www.co-masonry.org...

www.droit-humain.org...

I hereby put it to you, Akilles, that you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.



BTW - freemasonry isn't a secret society.



Are you saying Co-Masonry is the Mother lodge my friend?



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join