I can say threw my own research I have declared the Higher Masonary Lodge to accept EVIL as their source of power and affecting the physical world politically. Most of us will probably never find the truth to Mason history in our life time, but others do endless reasearch to uncover the root to this "secret society"

It is my belief that they are puppets under the control of evil and the authors of the NWO

Originally posted by XX_Mouse_XX
I can say threw my own research I have declared the Higher Masonary Lodge to accept EVIL as their source of power and affecting the physical world politically. Most of us will probably never find the truth to Mason history in our life time, but others do endless reasearch to uncover the root to this "secret society"

It is my belief that they are puppets under the control of evil and the authors of the NWO

We are coming to take you away YAHAA .

Trust me you have more things to be worried about than a few old fat men worried about whats to eat after the meeting HAHA.

Originally posted by mrfixit
*snip***
Trust me you have more things to be worried about than a few old fat men worried about whats to eat after the meeting HAHA.

Hey! I resemble that comment

I am a Past Master of my lodge (2003).
I am the SECRETary of my lodge, and have been sense I was Master.
I am a Master Mason (3rd degree), not a 32.
However, I am holding a place in the Grand Lodge of COlorado AF&AM, and look'n to be Grand Master of COlorado soon without being a 32 degree freemason.

I would love to reply to this thread, questions, and comments, provided that any particular post doesn't last a screen in size, and can maintain dignity.

Cug... If I may, I would like ta comment on your comments...

No I have no interest in joining. For one I'm not interested in an all male group, I do enough things that tend to be male dominated and I think they all suffer from the lack of women.

Like Cub scouts, and Boy scouts, there are Brownies, and Girl scouts. For every unit of Freemasonry, there are two units for women. However, I understand that isn’t what you ment. It is true, that a women can't become a Freemason in title. I can tell you, my Now wife (married 2 weeks ago) isn't a member of any Masonic Family unit, yet she has done more hands on work for Freemasonry (and it's functions), and understands masonry more then most all of our 10 year members at our lodge.

The other reason is I can't see how Thelema could fit giving the rules of Masonry (Only one God for example.. I have several and none at the same time.). Another thing is the morals they teach seem to me to be mostly Christian morals.. I'm not Christian and I don't have Christian morals. (or Islamic or Jewish morals for that matter. Several of the eastern beliefs might come close.).

I’m not familiar with Thelema(ism). I would like to talk with you one on one about your religion. I’m guess’n that you will get an answer that I don't think you are expecting. I wouldn't call it "Christian Morals" (but I can see the resemblance), I would probably call it more "American Morals". It is about treating EVERYONE equally (on the level), and being on the Square with EVERYONE. We are encouraged to vote, and take an active interest in our house, city, country, and world, but we are forbiden to talk Politics (or religion) in lodge.

And in theory, I would like to join, just to find out what they know, so I can expose them for what they are. The only problem with this is that only 33rd degree or higher masons are told what is actually going on in the organization. The smaller ranks just perform rituals, and have secret handshakes. So it would be pointless for me to attempt this idea i had.

Sad that you are actually willing to decieve a righteous group of people who take you into the fraternity and trust you as a friend.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Majestic12]

Originally posted by XX_Mouse_XX
I can say threw my own research I have declared the Higher Masonary Lodge to accept EVIL as their source of power and affecting the physical world politically. Most of us will probably never find the truth to Mason history in our life time, but others do endless reasearch to uncover the root to this "secret society"

Ok here we go Would you offer something that backs up your statement? Just a few at a time so we can discuss.

Originally posted by CO_Cowboy
It is true, that a women can't become a Freemason in title. I can tell you, my Now wife (married 2 weeks ago) isn't a member of any Masonic Family unit, yet she has done more hands on work for Freemasonry (and it's functions), and understands masonry more then most all of our 10 year members at our lodge.

This is a good example of what I meant. It seems to me Freemasonry might be better off with the people like your wife "really" participated in it.

I’m not familiar with Thelema(ism). I would like to talk with you one on one about your religion.

It's just Thelema, One who follows Thelema is a Thelemite, and Things relating to Thelema are Thelemic. Now that the grammar lesson is over feel free to send me a PM if you wish.

Originally posted by Majestic12

And in theory, I would like to join, just to find out what they know, so I can expose them for what they are. The only problem with this is that only 33rd degree or higher masons are told what is actually going on in the organization. The smaller ranks just perform rituals, and have secret handshakes. So it would be pointless for me to attempt this idea i had.

Sad that you are actually willing to decieve a righteous group of people who take you into the fraternity and trust you as a friend.

I'd say let him join! Let him join and find out that EVERYTHING he believes about Freemasonry was a fat, steamy pile of crap and then let him stop paying his dues, stop showing up and eventually fade away like so many other members who thought Freemasonry would be something it isn't.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Let him join and find out that EVERYTHING he believes about Freemasonry was a fat, steamy pile of crap and then let him stop paying his dues, stop showing up and eventually fade away like so many other members who thought Freemasonry would be something it isn't.

sebatwerk,

That is exactly the type of post I didn't want to see in this thread. And I'd like to ask others not to respond to this post.

I am asking again Please everyone follow the rules of this thread (You can think of the "rules" being the topic of this thread, and this type of post is off-topic). I'd like for both side to feel like they had a chance to express their views without getting stomped on.

Yea, I might be living in a fairytale world, but I really would like to see if this will work.

Thank you.

[edit on 6/3/2005 by Cug]

Originally posted by Cug

*SNIP*

OK to start things off two questions. Please give your personal opinion in your own words.

Is Free Masonry good, evil, neither? and why? Please keep it shortish for now.

Would you join the Free Masons? and why? Again shortish, If you are currently a member what were your reasons at the time you joined?

I being a Mason, believe that the organization as a whole is good. From my personal experiences the group is just as other Masons and I portray it out to be. A group of men trying to make themselves better through good works. That being said, I'm not saying *every* individual Mason is good. Unfortunately in a group as large as we are, there are some "bad seeds" and we (as a group) try to police those as much as possible. But sadly some do fall through the cracks.

Why did I join?

I had for along time had wanted to join what I call a Charitable Organization. I had looked at the Elks, Moose (still contemplating that petition), Lions Club etc, but none struck my fancy. When I started talking to a friend of mine about it and he said that he was a member of the Masonic Lodge. It peaked my curiosity and having always seen men I had admired wearing the S&C when I was young, I investigated further. My family not being "Masonic", this was quasi-new territory for me. So I hit the web researching. I ran across all the typical sites, both pro and against.

After numerous discussions with people I knew and logically dismantling the anti sites, I submitted my petition and have not regretted ever since.

The one thing that really drew me to Masonry was that most of the charity that the Craft does is behind the scenes. I'm not one to boast about charity, if I wanted that I'd do something that had my name plastered all over it. But with all the numerous charities directly affiliated with Masonry it seemed like a natural fit for me.

The other thing that really intrigued me about Masonry are the traditions that are involved.

These things were some of my reasons for joining. Others may have different reasons. But hopefully this helps.

Originally posted by XX_Mouse_XX
I can say threw my own research I have declared the Higher Masonary Lodge to accept EVIL as their source of power [snip]

You cannot POSSIBLY have done much "research" You can't even spell MasonRY right. Note that it's not MasonARY.

It doesn't bode well for the credibility of your (so-called) research if you cannot even spell the name of the organization.

Next!

senrak,

Go join sebatwerk and sit in the corner. If you wish to attack something attack the message not the person.

Originally posted by Golfie

The other thing that really intrigued me about Masonry are the traditions that are involved.

Thanks Golfie

I have a hypothetical question for the masons who posted. What if you found some sort of nefarious plan in the "higher ups" of Masonry. What would you do?

I'd tend to believe that most would quit on the spot, and be very vocal about it. As it sits now we have claims that some have done just that, yet they are in no great numbers, or are always spoken of as someone I know or otherwise unspecified persons. It doesn't add much to the argument.

Originally posted by XX_Mouse_XX
I can say threw my own research I have declared the Higher Masonary Lodge to accept EVIL as their source of power and affecting the physical world politically. Most of us will probably never find the truth to Mason history in our life time, but others do endless reasearch to uncover the root to this "secret society"

Never find truth of masonry huh? It is printed, for everyone to read, did you know that? I own a masonic bible, ritual book, and albert pike's morals and dogma...and I'm not a mason. I just got sick and tired of people making slanderous internet sites about masonry. So I actually did something about it, I bought credible books that deal with the lessons and teachings of masonry. Something you might want to look into before you claim to know the truth.

I could contend that your post/opinion is just as evil as masonry, under your standards, because it is secritive, and doesn't reveal its source of research. As far as your posts go, not much information...a whole lot of speculation. You seem to be looking for something that you will not find in the end. Guaranteed. You do have the right believe whateve you want, just don't be surprised when people shoot your logic down, you need credible evidence to back it up.

It is my belief that they are puppets under the control of evil and the authors of the NWO

You say you have researched this...but I don't see any sources. Imagine that. I'd imagine if you had done the research, it would have been quite easy to post a link to the site, or the title of the book you used.



[edit on 3-6-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

I find myself agreeing with your every word. EoH.

Originally posted by Cug
I have a hypothetical question for the masons who posted. What if you found some sort of nefarious plan in the "higher ups" of Masonry. What would you do?

I would not quit. Rather, I would have those masons brought up on masonic charges, have a masonic trial held, and hopefully have them expelled from the fraternity. No mason, regardless of degree or position as officer, is exempt from being brought up on masonic charges. And ANY mason, regardless of degree or position, can bring another mason up on masonic charges. If the action was bad enough, there would definitely be enough brothers to vote the masons responsible out of the fraternity.

Here is what the Constitution of the Grand Lodge of California says about Masonic Charges against Masters of lodges:

§29010. CHARGES.
Charges may be preferred, for any or all of the following reasons, against the Grand Master, as Grand Master, during his tenure in office, by the Masters of any five Lodges of this Jurisdiction, for:
A. Abuse of his power;
B. Violation of the Constitution or Ordinances; or
C. Other unmasonic conduct.
The charges shall be in writing signed by the accusers, and presented to the last Past Grand Master of this Grand Lodge who is then residing in the State and who is a member in good standing of a Lodge in this Jurisdiction.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Thanks sebatwerk,

That's a new one for me.
That pretty much puts to rest the ideas that only a few highranking Masons are up to no good and the rest are just pawns.

Originally posted by Cug
Thanks sebatwerk,

That's a new one for me.
That pretty much puts to rest the ideas that only a few highranking Masons are up to no good and the rest are just pawns.

That's what we've been saying the whole time! Of course there will be some nutjob out there who insists on believeing the contrary, regardless of the evidence. In any case, there's WAY too many do-gooders and well-intentioned Freemasons, who care WAY too much about the fraternity and its sanctity as a good organization to ever allow ANY group of people to abuse their power within a masonic jurisdiction.

One of the things a lot of people get mixed up with is the difference between Freemasons and Freemasonry.

Freemasonry is (fairly) unique in that it is a system which has evolved and no-one has the ability to change the fundamentals, without which it would not be Freemasonry any more.

Freemasons are individuals like me who populate that system. We all learn something to a greater or lesser extent.

Freemasonry is a System of Morality, a blueprint for life, if you like. It emphasis and exemplifies a basic morality which all right-thinking people can agree on.

Freemasons are human and make mistakes. But we are humans who are spending at least a little of our time in a System of Morality. In most cases it rubs off.

It may be constructive, when looking at a criticism, to determine whether it is of Freemasonry or of Freemasons.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Cug
senrak,
Go join sebatwerk and sit in the corner. If you wish to attack something attack the message not the person.

Uhm...excuse me if I'm right Cug, did someone die and make you Moderator?



If so, as a Mason, I prefer the Northeast Corner (of course)

[edit on 3-6-2005 by senrak]

Nope no mod powers... it was just a simple request I made on the first post If you don't care to honor it so be it.

I thought an actual discussion might be interesting.

Originally posted by Cug
senrak,

Go join sebatwerk and sit in the corner. If you wish to attack something attack the message not the person.

For someone who doesn't want childish remarks on the website, this is pretty hypocritical. Are you trying to belittle him by putting him in "time out?"

As much as you all don't want to acknowledge it, senrak and other masons on this site, may actually know what they are talking about.

Imagine how frustrated and short with people you would get if they asked you the same dumb questions over and over. Senrak may make a wise crack, every now and then, but you all take the comments with so much offense and seriousness, That it snowballs into a "who is regulating who" battle, in which everyone just gets more and more frustrated.

Nip it in the butt, cug, just because you seem to want to mediate your own thread, which is good; doesn't mean that you have the right to tell someone to sit in a corner. Senrak took time out of his day to respond to your post, in intrerst of helping you answer your questions. The whole "name calling" thing, seems like a good idea, but are you really confident that it will hold? Especially when others egg eachother on...



[edit on 3-6-2005 by Eyeofhorus]