You really think that a 32nd degree mason is POWERFUL!?!? Wow! I can't wait until this Saturday, when I will be made a 32nd degree mason also! Imagine that, 32 degrees in ONE day, and I will finally have millions of minions under my control! Yeehaw!

I hope no one found out about your plans to invade Washington and make the President sign a treaty saying Freemasons are Kings of the Universe.



[edit on 6-6-2005 by Majestic12]

Originally posted by Majestic12

You really think that a 32nd degree mason is POWERFUL!?!? Wow! I can't wait until this Saturday, when I will be made a 32nd degree mason also! Imagine that, 32 degrees in ONE day, and I will finally have millions of minions under my control! Yeehaw!

I hope no one found out about your plans to invade Washington and make the President sign a treaty saying Freemasons are Kings of the Universe.



[edit on 6-6-2005 by Majestic12]

Umm- the President is already a Knight of Eulogia - like he would need any persuasion?

[edit on 6-6-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by dh

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Dude, nothing you said above is true. Freemasons are not powerful, they are not imprisoned in any way, and we do not take an oath to the death not to reveal secrets. You really are ignorant, and I suggest you do some studying before you post anything further.

Well you would say that, wouldn't you
I'll continuing studying
Ignore Yoda - it's malign whispering
And - oh - you're the one ultimately under contol

Yes, I WOULD say that because it is the TRUTH. I am a Freemason, therefore I am in a position to know. And no, I am not bound by oath under penalty of death to lie about the fraternity, so save your breath.

I really HOPE you continue studying Freemasonry, as long as it is a legitimate website, and not one of the mutitude of anti-masonic sites with an obvious agenda against the fraternity.

And I would LOVE for you to tell me how I am under control. Please explain: how am I ultimately the one under control???

Originally posted by sebatwerk
[And I would LOVE for you to tell me how I am under control. Please explain: how am I ultimately the one under control???

Look, Sabbathwerk, I'm only seeking knowledge that you can't tell
I can only offer up propositions that you cant confirm
It's a hopeless proposition because it's a secret
As both Bush and Kerry said
We can't realistically talk about that which you seek to hide
No offence intended

Originally posted by dh
Well, many of the cattle in the street looking at the trials and proofs you've gone through to achieve your status, the words, the oaths, the rites, the symbols, the colours , the geometry, the gods and demons invoked, many of us cattle were we able to look on this , might consider that you were a considerable wingnut yourself
I understand that you can't see this yourself, because if you're what you say you are, then you will have abrogated considerable power to yourself, which gives you the feeling that you are way above the hoards of conspiracy nuts who question your route
Of course, you are sworn on oath of death not to give the game away, so I can expect nothing but a derisory reply
Funny to be powerful, if that's what you are, but to be imprisoned by your allegiance

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! Now THAT'S funny! Particularly coming from someone who has NEVER attended a Masonic meeting or a Scottish Rite meeting or the investiture of a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor.

Oh well, ignorance is bliss indeed. (You're a happy little boy, aren't you?)

And for the record I have NEVER "sworn on oath to death" Try again.

Oh...on second thought...please don't.

You don't know what you're talking about so it would be a waste of your time to do so...and I'm through wasting my time on you.

Originally posted by dh
Look, Sabbathwerk, I'm only seeking knowledge that you can't tell
I can only offer up propositions that you cant confirm

I can talk to you about anything I want regarding Freemasonry, except our modes of recognition such as handshakes and passwords. I have not sworn to keep anything else secret, so keep your stupid little misconceptions about Freemasonry to yourself. You really don't know anything about Freemasonry, do you?

Don't you DARE try to come in here and try to teach ME about MY fraternity like you have ANY IDEA what you're talking about. Unless you are a mason, you are in NO POSITION to have ANY KIND OF A CLUE as to what you are saying. So if you want to learn, I suggest you pay attention to what I have to say.

Now, let's try this again. Why is it you think that I am the one under control? You are the one who believes lies from people with an obvious agenda against Freemasonry. You are the one being deceived and suckered, not I.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by dh
Look, Sabbathwerk, I'm only seeking knowledge that you can't tell
I can only offer up propositions that you cant confirm

Don't you DARE try to come in here and try to teach ME about MY fraternity like you have ANY IDEA what you're talking about. Unless you are a mason, you are in NO POSITION to have ANY KIND OF A CLUE as to what you are saying. So if you want to learn, I suggest you pay attention to what I have to say.

.

Well, I'll just say this. Don't get angry - I'll admit to being a wind-up merchant, which is completely different to being a troll
I'll agree that having no direct experience of masonry debars me from being 'anti-mason' as much as a politician never having smoked a spliff is debarred from passing anti-marijuana legislation with good intent
I don't seek to educate you - that would be ridiculous
I'm only carrying on this conversation to find out what you're willing to tell
The handshakes and signals are only too well-known and would be the least of your worries, I'd have thought
You see, I'm not some uptight little Christian nut trembling at the thought of some abasing Satanic freemasonry conflicting with the pure love of Jesus
What I can observe is that occult and deliberately Satanic (as conveyed by Hollywood) rituals are at the heart of government and have been on a continuum since the 3rd Reich in Germany to constrict the time period, which in reality is centuries if not eons longer
The freemason hierarchy may not be wholly bad, but there are direct tie-ins, just one example -Aleister Crowley/Winston Churchill/Madame Blavatsky/The Great White Brotherhood/Vril/Alice Bailey/The Lucis Trust/New Age/The United Nations/David Spangler-I'm not trying to educate here, just insert a free associatin
I assume you understand the connective flow, otherwise there are various disparate hierarchies within the network - some connected to governance some outside, of which the latter I'd have to assume you are part
I don't expect a straight answer

Originally posted by dh
Well, I'll just say this. Don't get angry - I'll admit to being a wind-up merchant, which is completely different to being a troll
I'll agree that having no direct experience of masonry debars me from being 'anti-mason' as much as a politician never having smoked a spliff is debarred from passing anti-marijuana legislation with good intent
I don't seek to educate you - that would be ridiculous
I'm only carrying on this conversation to find out what you're willing to tell
The handshakes and signals are only too well-known and would be the least of your worries, I'd have thought
You see, I'm not some uptight little Christian nut trembling at the thought of some abasing Satanic freemasonry conflicting with the pure love of Jesus
What I can observe is that occult and deliberately Satanic (as conveyed by Hollywood) rituals are at the heart of government and have been on a continuum since the 3rd Reich in Germany to constrict the time period, which in reality is centuries if not eons longer
The freemason hierarchy may not be wholly bad, but there are direct tie-ins, just one example -Aleister Crowley/Winston Churchill/Madame Blavatsky/The Great White Brotherhood/Vril/Alice Bailey/The Lucis Trust/New Age/The United Nations/David Spangler-I'm not trying to educate here, just insert a free associatin
I assume you understand the connective flow, otherwise there are various disparate hierarchies within the network - some connected to governance some outside, of which the latter I'd have to assume you are part
I don't expect a straight answer

Look, I've already told you that the ONLY things that Freemasons ever take an obligation to keep secret are the rituals and modes of recognition. And you're right, they are already exposed all over the place, but I still promised not to divulge them and therefore will not. I will be as open as I feel like being in any other subject regarding Freemasonry. If you don't believe me, you can ask any other Freemason, or you can do some research and find out for yourself. There is NOTHING that bars me from revealling whatever I want about Freemasonry, except modes of recognition and rituals. Got it?

Now I'm glad that you were able to admit that if you want to learn, you should be listening more than you should be speaking. While there have been less-than-great Freemasons in the past, this does not mean the organization itself has anything to do with the activities of these men/ organizations. There have been and still are bad seeds in our lodges, as there have been and still are VERY MANY illegal Freemasons and lodges. Aleister Crowley (whom you named), for example, was not a real Freemason. He was made a "mason" in an illegal lodge, and hence is not recognized as a mason by any real Masons.

So whatever you want to know about Freemasonry, ask away. I will not lie to you and I will not deceive you. If you touch upon a subject that I have sworn to keep secret, then I will simply tell you so. But Freemasons are not liars, and they don't deceive people who want honest information about the Craft. Masons LOVE to talk about Freemasonry, and they LOVE to teach people who want to know more about it. So please don't try to tell me that I can't be trusted because I'm sworn to secrecy, OK? it's a bunch of crap.


[edit on 7-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by dh

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by dh
Look, Sabbathwerk, I'm only seeking knowledge that you can't tell
I can only offer up propositions that you cant confirm

Don't you DARE try to come in here and try to teach ME about MY fraternity like you have ANY IDEA what you're talking about. Unless you are a mason, you are in NO POSITION to have ANY KIND OF A CLUE as to what you are saying. So if you want to learn, I suggest you pay attention to what I have to say.

.

Well, I'll just say this. Don't get angry - I'll admit to being a wind-up merchant, which is completely different to being a troll
I'll agree that having no direct experience of masonry debars me from being 'anti-mason' as much as a politician never having smoked a spliff is debarred from passing anti-marijuana legislation with good intent
I don't seek to educate you - that would be ridiculous
I'm only carrying on this conversation to find out what you're willing to tell
The handshakes and signals are only too well-known and would be the least of your worries, I'd have thought
You see, I'm not some uptight little Christian nut trembling at the thought of some abasing Satanic freemasonry conflicting with the pure love of Jesus
What I can observe is that occult and deliberately Satanic (as conveyed by Hollywood) rituals are at the heart of government and have been on a continuum since the 3rd Reich in Germany to constrict the time period, which in reality is centuries if not eons longer
The freemason hierarchy may not be wholly bad, but there are direct tie-ins, just one example -Aleister Crowley/Winston Churchill/Madame Blavatsky/The Great White Brotherhood/Vril/Alice Bailey/The Lucis Trust/New Age/The United Nations/David Spangler-I'm not trying to educate here, just insert a free associatin
I assume you understand the connective flow, otherwise there are various disparate hierarchies within the network - some connected to governance some outside, of which the latter I'd have to assume you are part
I don't expect a straight answer

Well said, dh...
I'll admit to also being somewhat of a 'wind-up merchant'- as you have said.

It's not like I'm personally against Sabatwerk or Senrak, or have a personal dislike of them. I'm sure that they are nice enough guys in person...
I just don't like Freemasonry in general (& a few other fraternities)...and I'm not afraid to say it.

Actually, my familiy has somewhat of a legacy of membership within Freemasonry. I could become a Mason also- if I chose to do that. One of the reasons that I don't join my local lodge is the corruption amoung our locally elected politicians, that coincidentally- are supposed to be 'upstanding' members of our community as well as being Freemasons. The mebership of our local lodge has signifcant influance in what occurs in my local community- not always for the better. Quite a few local politicians have been 'recalled' or forced to resign...it is not an uncommon occurance here...because of various scandals- & outcrys of the public.

I'm of the attitude of being a kind of 'anti-elitist'...and those on the inside of the local 'good ol boys club' are the most corrupt & hypocritical people. So I wonder if this kind of thing happens in my area at the local level- what happens at higher levels of business & government among the 'well conected' politicians & businessmen that happen to be Freemasons??
As above...so below...

Maybe this sort of thing does not go on among the members of the lodges of Sabatwerk & Senrak. Maybe it is just localized where I live...

Maybe modern-day Freemasonry is only about the occasional free spaghetti dinners on Tuesdays, old men gathering to play cards at the lodge, sharing in the brotherhood of men, and study of dusty old books about esoteric studies in order to better understand mankind with the goal of becoming a better man...
...but I doubt that's all there is to Freemasonry.
T.S.

Originally posted by SkiFreak
It's not like I'm personally against Sabatwerk or Senrak, or have a personal dislike of them. I'm sure that they are nice enough guys in person...

I can't speak for Seb, but I'LL sure sleep better tonight knowing that...thanks.

I just don't like Freemasonry in general (& a few other fraternities)...and I'm not afraid to say it.

Actually, my familiy has somewhat of a legacy of membership within Freemasonry. I could become a Mason also- if I chose to do that.

But since you don't LIKE it, it'd be silly and hypocritical to do so, wouldn't it?
I mean, you COULD, but if you DID, you'd be doing so based upon a lie and quite honestly, you'd get absolutely NOTHING out of it, and the fraternity would not benefit from your membership.

One of the reasons that I don't join my local lodge is the corruption amoung our locally elected politicians, that coincidentally- are supposed to be 'upstanding' members of our community as well as being Freemasons.

Unfortunately it IS a HUMAN institution. It's not perfect. No one is perfect. No THING is perfect. Freemasonry is no exception and doesn't proclaim that it is. I hope you can understand that.

Maybe modern-day Freemasonry is only about the occasional free spaghetti dinners on Tuesdays, old men gathering to play cards at the lodge,

Maybe. But maybe NOT. Especially the "old" men part. I've been a Mason for 16 years. I'm 37. HARDLY an "old man" And I NEVER "gather to play cards" I go to study and learn about Masonry.

[edit on 7-6-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by SkiFreak
I'm of the attitude of being a kind of 'anti-elitist'...and those on the inside of the local 'good ol boys club' are the most corrupt & hypocritical people. So I wonder if this kind of thing happens in my area at the local level- what happens at higher levels of business & government among the 'well conected' politicians & businessmen that happen to be Freemasons??
As above...so below...

You fail to realize that the corruption you speak of is a product of Government, not Freemasonry! Why is it that you must blame Freemasonry for the actions of its members! Masons are grown men, responsible for their own actions! Just because a few are bad people does not mean that the majority of Freemasons are, nor that the bad masonos are a product of Freemasonry.

Freemasonry makes good men better, but not all men. Some men are beyond help.



[edit on 7-6-2005 by sebatwerk]