Really I have no idea what fuels these individuals to post and stand by such senseless claims and random drivel. Maybe just too much time on their hands? Really these people just seem to pick the best piece of "fiction" they can find on some low end website and then believe every word.

After all the garbage claims it's followed up with some non - plausible defense that is more laughable than worth reading.

Like CPY said, Masons are the nicest people you can ever meet. The Anti - Masons obviously have never been to a Masonic lodge and spoken with an actual Mason. Their whole argument is pumped with speculation and lies.



[edit on 2-6-2005 by Majestic12]

[edit on 2-6-2005 by Majestic12]

I think that I have been referenced ( not by name) enough to give me the right to also, throw my two cents in.

I have brought up a great deal of information about masonry. MOST OF IT NEGATIVE, I admit. And I have stated over and over that the masons I know personally are some of the best people. BUT, by no stretch of the imagination are all masons the same. You masons yourself have admitted as much (Begrudgingly).

I have never attcked anyone personally with insults and degrading remarks. That kind of behavior is completly below me. But I do, and will continue to air my position on the brotherhood, not from what I read on the net, but from what those 33rd brothers who have told me about what goes on. I trust them!

I do not trust anyone who thinks they can speak for all the brothers because I know as a fact it is impossible to do so. You can only spout a dogma that is not practiced by all the masons, therefor, these statments are irrelavent. It is abserd to even consider speaking for thousands of brothers you dont know personally.

Freemasonry has as one of its premises that you must believe in a supreme being. I have also met some great Athiests. This is the height of arrogance and predjudice. The Athiest is not bound by any religious brainwashing / dogma and can therefore see life without binders. But masonry chooses to overlook this asset in searching for the truth.

The masons I have spoken with have also agreed that because of the wording of "Tollorance", Satanists and luciferians are allowed to enter because there supreme being is acceped. So I consider some of these stories to be based in fact, not Troll mongering. And since the pricipal masons on this board do not know the people involved in these stories they can once again only reitirate the masonic dogma, not fact. As the old line goes, just the facts mam, just the facts.

To be fair, balanced, and truely honest, you MUST take the good with the bad. The carpet will only hold so much dirt, just ask the Catholic church!

I really enjoy reading masonic literature, when I know the author is a mason. It makes the read more exciting, and understanable. But for the life of me, I dont understand why the brotherhood, or certain idividuals choose to overlook works of past mason, or downplay what they have shared.

I will continue to judge a person for who they are, not by the associations they keep. And, I will also continue to judge a person by what they do, and not by what they say. I will live my life by morals beliefes, not by politics! And I will never have complete tolorance to accept evil as the accepted norm because a brotherhood says its okay!

I have never attcked anyone personally with insults and degrading remarks. That kind of behavior is completly below me. But I do, and will continue to air my position on the brotherhood, not from what I read on the net, but from what those 33rd brothers who have told me about what goes on. I trust them!

How are these men able to call themselves Masons anyway?

Freemasonry has as one of its premises that you must believe in a supreme being. I have also met some great Athiests. This is the height of arrogance and predjudice. The Athiest is not bound by any religious brainwashing / dogma and can therefore see life without binders. But masonry chooses to overlook this asset in searching for the truth.

If anything Atheism is a religion, it has its followers and its influences.

The masons I have spoken with have also agreed that because of the wording of "Tollorance", Satanists and luciferians are allowed to enter because there supreme being is acceped. So I consider some of these stories to be based in fact, not Troll mongering. And since the pricipal masons on this board do not know the people involved in these stories they can once again only reitirate the masonic dogma, not fact. As the old line goes, just the facts mam, just the facts.

Satanism is in no way associated with any deity. Satanism is the exploration of the Seven Sins. "Satan" is nonexistant, he was created from a bastardization of the Horned Pagan god.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
But I do, and will continue to air my position on the brotherhood, not from what I read on the net, but from what those 33rd brothers who have told me about what goes on. I trust them!

Now REALLY, ASE, How many 33rd Degree Masons do you KNOW?? I personally know a LOT, but I'm active in the Scottish Rite where they tend to congregate for meetings...but there aren't a lot of 'em in one place walking around on the street. Does saying they're 33rds make them seem more credible to you? Be honest.

I do not trust anyone who thinks they can speak for all the brothers because I know as a fact it is impossible to do so. You can only spout a dogma that is not practiced by all the masons, therefor, these statments are irrelavent. It is abserd to even consider speaking for thousands of brothers you dont know personally.

Then why do YOU think YOU can speak for them, by calling it evil, occult, nefarious, etc? YOU'RE speaking for thousands of [Masons] you don't know personally. ....and you call US absurd?!!??! (Actually I think you called us "abserd" but I knew what you meant!)

Freemasonry has as one of its premises that you must believe in a supreme being. I have also met some great Athiests. This is the height of arrogance and predjudice.

How so? It's an ancient landmark of the Fraternity. It was founded for men who BELIEVE in God. NOT for men who DON'T. We have nothing against Athiests (I know several whom I really like) but they're not eligible to be Masons. Neither are convicted felons. I know a few of them. Nice guys...paid their debt to society...but are NOT eligible to be Freemasons, any more than a Protestant Christian is eligible to join the Knights of Columbus. Rules are rules whether you like 'em or not.

There's a street in my town that in my opinion I should be able to drive 45 mph on. Not long ago a nice police officer stopped me and informed me that someone who was actually in charge of the streets in my town didn't want me to do that. They wanted me to drive 30 mph. I don't like that rule (or the little pink piece of paper he gave me to remind me) but I didn't make the rule...I simply have to abide by it.

The Athiest is not bound by any religious brainwashing / dogma and can therefore see life without binders. But masonry chooses to overlook this asset in searching for the truth.

This is illogical. Freemasonry is based on the teachings of GOD. Freemasons believe there IS a God, why would we want an Athiest in there saying there ISN'T? Makes as much sense as a Jewish Synagogue inviting in a Pentecostal Preacher to preach that Jesus is the Messiah...the Christ. Why would they do that? (Except perhaps for entertainment)


The masons I have spoken with have also agreed that because of the wording of "Tollorance", Satanists and luciferians are allowed to enter because there supreme being is acceped.

The word is "Tolerance" and Satanists do NOT believe that Satan is a Supreme Being. Satanists are NOT allowed to be Masons, unless they join by deceit.

So I consider some of these stories to be based in fact, not Troll mongering. And since the pricipal masons on this board do not know the people involved in these stories they can once again only reitirate the masonic dogma, not fact. As the old line goes, just the facts mam, just the facts.

Hmmm. But the fact remains that we ARE Masons...the person telling these stories is NOT. Just the facts.

To be fair, balanced, and truely honest, you MUST take the good with the bad.

On that we agree. There IS good...there IS bad. But FREEMASONRY is not bad...there have just been some bad Masons (and are still some, unfortunately) That doesn't make the ORGANIZATION bad....any more than a few bad Priests make the Catholic Church bad.

The carpet will only hold so much dirt, just ask the Catholic church!

I will continue to judge a person for who they are, not by the associations they keep. And, I will also continue to judge a person by what they do, and not by what they say.

When are you going to actually START doing that?

I will live my life by morals beliefes, not by politics!

That's very Masonic of you.

And I will never have complete tolorance to accept evil as the accepted norm because a brotherhood says its okay!

Right. That's why the Brotherhood of Freemasons is against that sort of thing too. Glad you agree with us!

I never believe any information about Anti - Masonry on the net. Normally it is just some ranting lunatic that sticks a comma and Ex - 33rd Degree Mason after his name, then there will be that "minority" of individuals that will believe every word of solid drivel from a SPECULATOR.

From what I have read Masonic activities are based around creationism and spirituality rather than evolutionism and science, so it is very understandable why Masons do not accept Atheists: It's against ancient tradition and integrity.

Satanism is more of a way of life than a religious faith. Satanists do not regard Lucifer as their supreme being but as a powerful figurehead in a more "free" alternative way to living.

Here are some links...\

www.satanism101.com
www.churchofsatan.com (worth reading alot of the stuff on that site)

Originally posted by Majestic12
I never believe any information about Anti - Masonry on the net.

Never is a strong word. Indicates a closed mind. Just like those that Masons claim are trolls.

like any massive organization, you have those who believe and practice something and they may not have any "evil" intentions, but then you may have those higher up that may indeed have "evil" intentions. A lot of people on this site seem to find some evidence of "evil" in a group and then attack the whole group or practice as though everyone that belongs to a group is practicing the same thing when in fact it may only be a few. This could be said about a lot of religions as well, there are corrupt people in religions and they are usually "higher up's" and they make the whole relgion look bad but that does not mean that everyone in that religion is "corrupt"...

Corruption is deceptively easy to sniff out..if you recognize the smell of power.

It's the power that corrupts, the rush, the intoxication, the desire..people get hooked on the way they feel when flushed with power. It's not psychological, it's chemical...

They're uncut stimulants, better than any street drug, straight from your brain's own factories.

Some masons have enormous power, some have none. Don't need a bloodhound to follow where this trail leads...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Some masons have enormous power, some have none. Don't need a bloodhound to follow where this trail leads...

What do you mean by this? It's unclear.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
senrak
As they are to you, so you are to them.

You insult their inteligence and label them as you see fit, they do the same.

They probably think y'all are the ones working in shifts and dragging out the 'same tired' defenses.

To you, they're the trolls, but to them, you fill that role. You and your gang roll up on every related thread and unload with full barrage. They perceive this as stonewalling, you perceive it as defense of your values. They see obfuscation, so do you, you see unrelenting ignorance, and they of course accuse you and your brothers of it daily.

So don't pretend for a minute you're any different than your enemies. Y'all are inseperable.

...nicely said WO!

Why do I post things in a negative light against Masons...probrably because you guys are here and are the most accessable & easy targets. Sometimes...sometimes I just think its kind of fun to rub more 'salt in the wounds' - and then laugh about the further posts just because I feel a little mean.
I'm not just biased against Freemasons...I believe in equal opportunity- I'll speak out against nearly any 'secret society'.

Trust me, Sabatwerk & Senrak (& other masons here)...it's not that I run & hide and 'disappear' - I'm just getting tired to reading your same old-same old rants regarding your rigid & narrow views. When you actually get around to posting something worthwhile...I'll get around to posting a wothwhile reply. To be honest, I really didn't have any other reason to post this other than the nice reply by WO...and to let you know that I'm still around.

Now...I'll retreat back to the other areas that I frequent here on ATS.
T.S.

Read any article or statement of Anti - Masonry on the net and you will know what I mean. I am very much open - minded when it comes to serious topics like this, but I have no tolerance for ludicrous aligations and blatant speculation.

Originally posted by Majestic12
Read any article or statement of Anti - Masonry on the net and you will know what I mean. I am very much open - minded when it comes to serious topics like this, but I have no tolerance for ludicrous aligations and blatant speculation.

Cool.

Closed mind.

Duly noted.

Thanks.

Intrepid
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and amazing power corrupts most of the time.

Those with power (money, influence, fearlessness) are more susceptible to certain twists of logic that make compassion superfluous.

So the more power a man has, the more likely he is to be corrupt. Most times, in my experience, the corruption starts after a slip, some loss of power. It's a desperate attempt to regain that which was lost. That's usually what starts people walking on the dark side, so to speak.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Intrepid
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and amazing power corrupts most of the time.

Those with power (money, influence, fearlessness) are more susceptible to certain twists of logic that make compassion superfluous.

So the more power a man has, the more likely he is to be corrupt. Most times, in my experience, the corruption starts after a slip, some loss of power. It's a desperate attempt to regain that which was lost. That's usually what starts people walking on the dark side, so to speak.

And you think a Mason is the only one that can go to the Dark Side?

C'mon, this applies to everyone, not to one fraternity.

[QUOTE]Cool.

Closed mind.

Duly noted.

Thanks. [/QUOTE]


And I am close - minded?

No, of course I don't think that. What do you take me for?



It happens to people you wouldn't even suspect, like daycare providers and insurance salesmen, it happens to anybody who lets it happen...

Having no tolerance for speculation makes you close minded, yes.

Speculation is healthy, it's the other bit that's not..assumptions about the truth.

Edit: Sorry for the double post.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by Majestic12
[QUOTE]Cool.

Closed mind.

Duly noted.

Thanks. [/QUOTE]


And I am close - minded?

Read your own posts dude.

WO, I agree. So why all the slagging on the Masons?

Personally, I see it is because people want to know what they do "in Lodge", (right term?) and it's none of their business.

Your point is not without merit, it just applies to more than the Masons imo.

Yeah well Jah-Bul-On to the lot of ya
Albert Pike founded the Ku Klux Klan (Nice guy!)and told the 33 degree masons that for the 30-32 degree masons they know they should worship Lucifer
The United Nations reports are published by the Lucis Trust, an Alice Bailey inspired organisation formerly known as the Lucifer Trust
Now Alice, though an incredible uptight racist receiving her orders from Blavatsky's Great White Brotherhood, those annoying little informants lying just at the edge of consciousness, did actually feed important information into the Radionics field in particular and the New Age in general.
Many benefits have been picked up from this exteriorisation of the agenda
however the general feed is the suppression and annihilation of the majority of the Goyim
The rest left unsurprised about the way things are

Originally posted by humbled_one
like any massive organization, you have those who believe and practice something and they may not have any "evil" intentions, but then you may have those higher up that may indeed have "evil" intentions.

But there is NO such thing going on in Freemasonry! There has NEVER been any evidence, not even the slightest HINT, that ANYTHING of the sort is going on. Yet Anti-masons INSIST that this must be the case, simply because an organization that values its privacy MUST be up to no good. This is a TERRIBLE assumption, and it's very annoyinng to have to explain this every single day.

There is no such thing as a "higher-up" in Freemasonry! EVERY member is equal, 100%! THAT is precisely why this is not possible. In Freemasonry, NO measure can be passed, NOTHING can be done without a majority vote of all members in the lodge. Masters of lodges answer to the membership that voted them in. Additionally, Masters cannot introduce their own measures for a vote. So how can a few "higher-ups" be doing such evil stuff, if they are not allowed to without someone else putting it up for vote?

If ANYONE is doing anything nefarious through the fraternity, they are acting alone and against the will and knowledge of anyone else that they answer to. And believe me, EVERYONE answers to someone in Freemasonry. After all, Freemasons are the ones who developed the concept of checks and balances.

Sorry, but things just don't work like anti-masons think.