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Amnesty responds to Bush's comments

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posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Bush claimed Amnesty's info was "absurd". Here's their well-crafted response.

www.amnesty.ca...


AMR 51/087/2005
31 May 2005


USA: Response to President Bush


President Bush again failed to address longstanding concerns regarding US detention policies and practices in the context of the "war on terror", Amnesty International said in response to his comments today.

At Guantánamo, the US has operated an isolated prison camp in which people are confined arbitrarily, held virtually incommunicado, without charge, trial or access to due process. Not a single Guantánamo detainee has had the legality of their detention reviewed by a court, despite the Supreme Court ruling of last year.

"Guantánamo is only the visible part of the story. Evidence continues to mount that the US operates a network of detention centres where people are held in secret or outside any proper legal framework -– from Afghanistan to Iraq and beyond," said Amnesty International.

US interrogation and detention policies and practices during the "war on terror", have deliberately and systematically breached the absolute prohibition of torture and Ill-treatment. Individuals held in US custody have been transferred for interrogation to countries known to practice torture.

"If President Bush and his administration are serious about freedom and human dignity they should recommit to the rule of law and human rights."

Amnesty International continues to call on the US administration to:

end all secret and incommunicado detentions;
grant the International Committee of the Red Cross full access to all detainees including those held in secret locations;
ensure recourse to the law for all detainees;
establish a full independent commission of inquiry into all allegations of torture, ill-treatment, arbitrary detentions and "disappearances";
bring to justice anyone responsible for authorizing or committing human rights violations

Background Information

When asked to comment about Amnesty International’s report during a White House Briefing President Bush said: "I'm aware of the Amnesty International report, and it's absurd. (…) The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world. When there's accusations made about certain actions by our people, they're fully investigated in a transparent way."

For more information, please see:

"Guantánamo and beyond: The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power

"USA: Human dignity denied: Torture and accountability in the 'war on terror'"



Seems like a reasonable list for the US to follow...


"If President Bush and his administration are serious about freedom and human dignity they should recommit to the rule of law and human rights."


HEAR HEAR! The rest of us have been scratching our heads about this for some time.




posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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i dont see how giving Osama bin laden a lawyer paid by American taxpayers is gonna help the Ameircan people.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Yeah I mean why would we want to follow the rule of law?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by boogyman
Yeah I mean why would we want to follow the rule of law?


u can go pay for his lawyer, ill watch wat he does (maybe sending a message to release him) also lets hope none of his brothers come over to US and take over a couple of elementary schools and demand his release. and the lawyer will agree that we need to release him because he dont look terrorizing enough.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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www.washtimes.com...

The top leadership of Amnesty International USA, which unleashed a blistering attack last week on the Bush administration's handling of war detainees, contributed the maximum $2,000 to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign.
Federal Election Commission records show that William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty USA, contributed $2,000 to Mr. Kerry's campaign last year. Mr. Schulz also has contributed $1,000 to the 2006 campaign of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat.

its a wonder why they were doing this, some guy hates Bush tsk tsk using his own personal vendetta against Bush by using his position to take on the Bush Adminstration. abusive use of power.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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No no your absolutely right deltaboy we should throw out the rules when we're dealing with these people. If there's one thing I've learned from the Nazis the Soviets and heck even Saddam Hussein is that the only way to solve problems is to abandon all principle when fighting the enemy. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I mean it worked for all those people right? judgeing by how successful they are today.

I can't understand why this distinguished international human rights organization is "hating" on our president because its obvious they have no reason other then the fact they hate Bush.


[edit on 2-6-2005 by boogyman]



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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I remember a great episode of "Mission Impossible" where they are interrogating someone whilst posing as police officers. The "Perp" says "hey, I know my rights" and the tall blond guy (the one who always got the tape at the beginning) slaps the # out the guy and yells "shut up rights are for decent people, not SCUM like YOU"!

Seriously deltaboy, I can only surmise you are military? As such it is neccessary for you to demonize the enemy to function perhaps.

Perhaps once you become older and wiser you will see the hypocricy of putting the USA up as a beacon of liberty and democracy for the world while ignoring the rule of law and rolling back prohibitions on torture.

Make no mistake: the present administration contains war criminals by any defenition, probably including the President and Donald Rumsfeld. The soldiers from genrals to private who follow these unlawful orders may have to account for thier actions someday in the future should the US ever lose it's postion of absolute hegemony. Don't think this cannot happen. The historical precedents are many, the Nazi's and nicolai chauchesku spring immediately to mind.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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its a wonder why they were doing this, some guy hates Bush tsk tsk using his own personal vendetta against Bush by using his position to take on the Bush Adminstration. abusive use of power.

The reports on individual countries are not compilled by nationals of that country to avoid that sort of problem. i.e. the part of the report that focused on Ireland was not written by an Irish man/woman, the Chinese part was not written by someone from China.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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We are following the rule of law, the terrorists are not!!



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
We are following the rule of law, the terrorists are not!!


plz tell me ur joking?
the united states has broken s**t loads of international laws
do you need it spelt out?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
i dont see how giving Osama bin laden a lawyer paid by American taxpayers is gonna help the Ameircan people.


I hope that's some sort of joke? What if they're innocent? Do they deserve to be locked away without trial? No rights, no nothing. People wonder why there are so many problems in the world - maybe it's time we look at ourselves?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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AHEM!

Pay attention, kids! You might learn something of the real differences between the actual Gulag from the Soviet Union and the psuedo-"gulag" in GITMO.

John Podhoretz pointed the sheer idiocy and fallacy of Amnesty International's calling GITMO a gulag:

Number of prisoners at Gitmo: approximately 600.

Number of prisoners in the Gulag: as many as 25 million, according to the peerless Gulag historian Anne Applebaum. Anne Applebaum

Number of camps at Gitmo: 1

Number of camps in the Gulag: At least 476, according to Applebaum.
oleneo's note: spread all over the Soviet Union, especially in Siberia.

Political purpose of Gulag: The suppression of internal dissent inside a totalitarian state (the Soviet Union).

Political purpose of Gitmo: The suppression of an international terrorist group that had attacked the United States, killing 3,000 people while attempting to decapitate the national government through the hijack of airplanes.

Financial purpose of Gulag: Providing totalitarian economy with millions of slave laborers.

Financial purpose of Gitmo: None.

Seizure of Gulag prisoners: From apartments, homes, street corners inside the Soviet Union.

Seizure of Gitmo prisoners: From battlefield sites in Afghanistan in the midst of war.
oleneo's note: And al Qaeda/Taliban terrorists from Yemen, southeast Asia, Pakistan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, etc, etc.

To read John Podhoretz's article here, you have to register anyway.

Stop defending Amesty International's fallacious conclusion.


[edit on 6/2/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
plz tell me ur joking?
the united states has broken s**t loads of international laws
do you need it spelt out?


So have every other country in the world in one way or another, including the vaunted UN. Need to spell it out for you?



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
i dont see how giving Osama bin laden a lawyer paid by American taxpayers is gonna help the Ameircan people.



HAHA, like they are looking for him anyway!



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo
AHEM!

Pay attention, kids! You might learn something of the real differences between the actual Gulag from the Soviet Union and the psuedo-"gulag" in GITMO.

John Podhoretz pointed the sheer idiocy and fallacy of Amnesty International's calling GITMO a gulag:

Number of prisoners at Gitmo: approximately 600.

Number of prisoners in the Gulag: as many as 25 million, according to the peerless Gulag historian


I'm afraid "Podoherzl"'s eminent works are in vain, since you won't find the denomination "Gulag" anywhere in the report. Fundamental debunking is good, as long as it is addressed at something the report actually contains.



Number of camps at Gitmo: 1

Number of camps in the Gulag: At least 476, according to Applebaum.
oleneo's note: spread all over the Soviet Union, especially in Siberia.

People should read things first they try to criticize. AI is referring to Guantanamo being only the visible part of the story, and addresses a world-spanning system of secret and incommunicado detentions in Israel, Jordan, Uzbekistan, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, where severe human rights infringements are reported from.


Political purpose of Gulag: The suppression of internal dissent inside a totalitarian state (the Soviet Union).

Political purpose of Gitmo: The suppression of an international terrorist group that had attacked the United States, killing 3,000 people while attempting to decapitate the national government through the hijack of airplanes.

Torture has never been an effective interrogation tool of suspects. That's why it isnt being used in any law-abiding country. It's only purpose is to humiliate the enemy.


Financial purpose of Gulag: Providing totalitarian economy with millions of slave laborers.

Financial purpose of Gitmo: None.

The many illegal detention camps operated by the US in "allied" dictatorships and rogue nations like Israel fit an economical purpose : Terror. Terrorization of oppositional movements in allied dictatorships like Egypt, Uzbekistan or Israel.


Seizure of Gulag prisoners: From apartments, homes, street corners inside the Soviet Union.

Seizure of Gitmo prisoners: From battlefield sites in Afghanistan in the midst of war.
oleneo's note: And al Qaeda/Taliban terrorists from Yemen, southeast Asia, Pakistan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, etc, etc.


Battlefield in Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi, Jordan and Syria ? Or was it from the streets of Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi, Jordan, Syria, Italy, Germany and Sweden ?


To read article
No way am i going to read an article from someone who is criticizing a report he obviously hasnt read


On a side note, there is also an interesting chapter on Israel in the report : news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 05:04 AM
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DB,


Originally posted by deltaboy
i dont see how giving Osama bin laden a lawyer paid by American taxpayers is gonna help the Ameircan people.


I guess you will have to catch him first.

Moretti,

Great post. Made exactly the right points but did not go into the minutiae of the errors in Podhoretz's work.

Cheers

BHR



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 05:09 AM
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oh what great replys....its great to se so many people getting along with the program....that way you wont be that surprised when you end up there.
I wouldnt call it gulags though, more like concentration camps....



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Don't forget how the US administration quoted and used an Amnesty International report on the attrocoties in IRAQ as part of the justification to go to war.

I guess they are only believable when what they say makes you look good.

sigh.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by opensecret1150
Seriously deltaboy, I can only surmise you are military? As such it is neccessary for you to demonize the enemy to function perhaps.

Perhaps once you become older and wiser you will see the hypocricy of putting the USA up as a beacon of liberty and democracy for the world while ignoring the rule of law and rolling back prohibitions on torture.



Normally, when somone makes a ridiculous statement such as you just have, I'd ask what planet have they been living on. But in your case, that obviously won't be necessary.

You think it was deltaboy that has 'demonized' this enemy? Try thinking that it was their own barbaric actions that resulted in their 'demonization' and subsequent incarceration at Gitmo. Then one of you bleats (like a sheep) "What if they're innocent?" Seems like at least some were so innocent that after the U.S. released them the first time, they were found attacking U.S. forces again.


[edit on 6/3/2005 by centurion1211]




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