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Islam in the church?

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posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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I just saw a picture of a painting of the Virgin Mary. Hehehe....but that's not all. On the hem of her clothes was written (and I noticed it although it was folded), in arabic "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his messanger". Weird! There must be some warped conspiracy around this.

If someone could help locate a picture of the painting, it would be very helpful. It was according to the caption an Italian Renaissance painting, sanctioned by the church (perhaps IN some church?).




posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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this is really interesting,
ill get looking to see what i can find



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Intersting babyloi. Where did you see this tho, you said you just saw it. you must've seen it enough to read it that you remember more about the context.

Recall that one of the daughters of Mo was named Fatima, and that the virgin mary made an appearance in the spainish (presumably moorish) city of Fatima, and the name Fatima has come to be associated with the Virgin Mary. I beleive that that is the city where the catholics bring out a statue of the Virgin and carry it down the street for a feastival, and that the muslims still in the area will also come out and 'venerate' it, beleiveing that its actually this Fatima, and undoubtedly the whole thing has more ancient pagan roots.

Was it a church in Spain perhaps?? Also recall that moors/muslims ran places like sicily and possibly had an influence in southern italy, so that might explain a weird confluence of the beleifs.

It would be fantastic if anyone can find this pic.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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I've been googling, not expecting to find anything, but this is interesting


"Mary, therefore, pointed to the child as her only answer. Her people asked, `How can we inquire of an infant in the cradle?' At this, Jesus spoke, `I am the servant of God to whom He has given the Book and whom He has blessed and commissioned with prophethood; whom He has enjoined with holding the prayer and giving the zakat as long as he lives. My mother is innocent and I am neither unjust nor evil. Peace be upon me on the day I was born, on the day I shall die, and on the day I shall be resurrected." [Qur'an, 19:29-33]

Perhaps the painting was infact a muslim painting, not a church painting???? Also, perhaps the painting was originally a church painting, and then muslim occupiers added the 'motto'.

Also, I hadn't realized that muslims consider mary, in the koran itself, to be a virgin. Whats up with that? I mean, a virgin birth, but jesus is a man???

Also, here is an intersting page on mary in catholicism and islam
www.chnonline.org...

Do you recall the stance and pose of mary, or have you found any pics similar to it? ALso, do you know in general the age of it, ie was it an unrealistic looking thing from the old days, or a more 'rennaisance' realistic looking peice??



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Judaism, Christianty and Islam have the same God.

Long time ago in the time of the Kalifa christian could practice there relgion in islamic countries.

When the crusader tried to invade Palastine , Arab of both faith have fought together side by side next to Khalid bin Walid .

As well as in the Islam a man could marry women with belive of Christianty and Judaism but not the belief of many gods and not vise versa.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Actually the explanation is much simpler. I know this for a while now.

The most fine clothes came from the Middle east back then and some of them had these words on them. These were included in the paintings because the people didnt know arabic.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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This is neither a conspiracy nor a scandal nor anything remotely "warped" about this.

Here is the single most important question to this whole topic:
The picture was painted when, by whom, and located originally where?

People, be aware that there were Catholic churches in Spain and Eastern Orthodox [Byzantium] Churches which also sanction the concept of the Virgin Mary.

Muslims/Arabs held many of the Catholic regions in Spain and in Byzantium. It is historically recorded that the Muslims/Arabs took over these churches and modified them into mosques or Muslim/Arab holy sites. In doing so, instead of totally destroying many of the artworks, etc., they simply re-carved, re-painted, etc. the words: "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his messanger" on many of those items.

Also, topic moved.





seekerof



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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nono, seekerof, the writing was on the painting of the cloth. It didn't look at all like it had been added later on. None of the painting had been erased, which is what would have been done if they wished to desecrate it. Like I said, it even followed the line of the cloth. It was most definitely placed there WHEN the painting was painted.
I wish I could find a pic of it online. It was the Virgin Mary looking down at baby Jesus. She had a cloth half covering her head, with the border having the writing. I saw it in a history book in my library, but someone has borrowed it now.
tomcat maybe right, but I gotta say, that would be a pretty boring explanation




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