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Aliens are nothing but from someone else's fantasy

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posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Well said Gazrok!

A most straight and honest rebutal to someone who seems to have a preconcieved bias on the subject already!

One must keep an open mind if they are to be able to accurately interept the evidence.

That is why I dropped out of the Academic world, (after a B. of S. Degree), because I found it stiffled by narrowminded, dogmatic professors and elitest governing bodies.



[edit on 2-6-2005 by TruthMagnet]




posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
While the universe is indeed exciting to ponder, it pales in comparison to the very real and voluminous evidence that we're being visited by another sentient species not of this world, and the idea that those vast distances may not be as insurmountable as mainstream science would have us believe.

The "very real and voluminous evidence"? Again, if this evidence is so compelling, then show me. Enlighten me. Prove to me once and for all that aliens exist. If we are indeed being visited, then finding a snapshot of an alien shaking hands with some farmer, or at the local gas station asking for directions isn't too much to ask.

Oh, right. The government is hiding each and every single piece of conclusive evidence.





Even now, scientists in fields such as quantum physics are starting to see the possibilities in this...


Umm, if scientists in QUANTUM PHYSICS are beginning to take it seriously, as you stated, how is this any different from the "mainstream science" that would have us believe otherwise? [also, got any names of reputable scientists in quantum who feel this way?]

It sounds dandy to throw in the word 'Quantum Physics' to bolster your case--except when it completely contradicts your statement in the previous sentence.


So to summarize: I'll be waiting to see that definitive proof that you allege is so "real and voluminous".



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by TruthMagnet
A most straight and honest rebutal to someone who seems to have a preconcieved bias on the subject already!

Someone who has a preconcieved bias on the subject? And this does not include you, because....??





That is why I dropped out of the Academic world, (after a B. of S. Degree), because I found it stiffled by narrowminded, dogmatic professors and elitest governing bodies.

Well that sounds lovely. Can I ask what field of science your BS was in?


p.s. that's the third time in this thread you mentioned that you are a "classically trained scientist"; i think we all got the picture by now.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 05:24 AM
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I know somthing you dont know, how come way back when no average citizen knew what anti gravity is all about , could make up the idea of a flying disk with no wings. Where do you think that idea came from you waist of letters.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by sound2
I know somthing you dont know, how come way back when no average citizen knew what anti gravity is all about , could make up the idea of a flying disk with no wings. Where do you think that idea came from you waist of letters.


What??

This is in reference to...?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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The "very real and voluminous evidence"? Again, if this evidence is so compelling, then show me. Enlighten me. Prove to me once and for all that aliens exist. If we are indeed being visited, then finding a snapshot of an alien shaking hands with some farmer, or at the local gas station asking for directions isn't too much to ask.


Please see the "Classic Cases" thread at the top of this forum, most notably the Roswell case. Examine the evidence, make up your own mind about it. Ask yourself, if it was Mogul, why the secrecy with THIS particular launch, and not those before or since. If a secret project, why no declassification over half a century later? Look at the evidence, follow the logic.



Oh, right. The government is hiding each and every single piece of conclusive evidence.


I'm surprised this is so difficult to believe. Is plutonium obtainable to anyone who wants it? What about stealth materials, etc.? It would be quite easy to seize any such evidence when and if it surfaces and then claim it was fake, terrestrial in origin, etc. Just as it would be quite easy to establish a cordon around a crashed Raptor, and ensure that the average Joe doesn't go to a newspaper or college with a piece of wreckage (or that if he does, the wreckage is then quickly seized.) How is the recovery of an extraterrestrial wreckage any more complicated? Simple, it isn't.



Umm, if scientists in QUANTUM PHYSICS are beginning to take it seriously, as you stated, how is this any different from the "mainstream science" that would have us believe otherwise? [also, got any names of reputable scientists in quantum who feel this way?]


Sure, Einstein (even though he hated Quantum Mechanics), Hawking, the fella in Japan working on teleporting protons, etc. Many physicists are stating that our ideas of linear travel through space may be antiquated, and that there may be other ways (such as wormholes, etc. again, modern physics) to go.



So to summarize: I'll be waiting to see that definitive proof that you allege is so "real and voluminous".


I alleged that the EVIDENCE was real and vouminous, not PROOF. You're putting words in my mouth...
The evidence points to a logical conclusion. It isn't proof. For proof we'd need PHYSICAL evidence of a being or device clearly beyond terrestrial science, and preferably easily determined as of alien origin. No, such proof we do not have at the present...only evidence that points to it.



[edit on 17-6-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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backtoreality,

Well my background I think was posted when I joined (isn't it put in one long "hello world" thread now for anyone who joins?)

But I have a Bachelors of Science Degree in Molecular and Cellular Biology with a minor in Computer Science.

I also took 1 year of Chemical Engineering, and almost 3 years of Electrical Engineering before that, so I have had more than 10 years of college level schooling and lab work.

Now that is not necessarily to brag because clearly it took me a while to find what I truly had a passion for - but it did expose me to an extensive amount of scientific training, proceedure, theory and practical lab experience in both technology and the life sciences.

Therefore I come into the fields of both UFOlogy and Cryptozoology with quite and open mind - and with no preconcieved bias.

I mentioned my distaste for the "Academic World" because if its tendency to value conformity over innovation and/or truth.

But - as you can see - I am no idiot - nor am I particularly gullible.

Yet I am among many of the worlds scientists who find real credibility and evidence to support current alien visitation to our planet.

In my mind, it makes perfect sense, as it solves the Fermi Paradox/Drake Equation considering how we have recently found solar sytems to be quite common around many close by and distant stars.

In fact, in that sense, achems-razor is fulfilled, as it would require a fairly complex reason for life to have NOT visited us in the 13.7 bilion years the Universe has existed.

(Of which Earth has been around at least 4 of)

So, from a scientific perspective, if this is the case then it should only be a matter of time until enough evidence can be compiled and the truth can be presented in a comprehensive way.

New forms of media, such as the internet, are finally allowing diverse people with diverse specialties to work in concert to bring this final "Disclosure" about.

It is simply a matter of time, just as eventually Cryptozoology will give way to Exobiology, as the "relatively" few remaing species of this planet are located and cataloged appropriately.

Therefore you can continue to scoff, ridicule, and stick your head in the sand as long as you want - while dedicated, hardworking experts use their "free" time to persue the matters of high intellectual and profound cultural significance - or you can actually, like a scientist, help analyze and discuss the evidence as it is discovered, so that an accurate and factual conclusion can be finally drawn.




[edit on 17-6-2005 by TruthMagnet]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Ah, Mr. Magnet, we meet again.


Originally posted by TruthMagnet
Yet I am among many of the worlds scientists who find real credibility and evidence to support current alien visitation to our planet

Oh really? So the case has finally been cracked? Congratualtions!
You guys should call up the AP--this is front page news!



Originally posted by TruthMagnet
I mentioned my distaste for the "Academic World" because if its tendency to value conformity over innovation and/or truth.

Not to be rude, Mr. Magnet, but it seems that the system for which you have such distaste for is in actuality a finely-tuned FACT-proving machine. I think the vast majority of the public would agree with me on this.


By the way, let me know what the AP says. I want to buy a copy of the first publication that breaks the news.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:05 AM
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Truthmagnet isn't the only scientist to see things are not what they seem.

Take J. Allen Hynek for example , as head of Blue Book he discounted many UFO sightings ( most for good reason ), he later called for Scientific Study of the Phenomena. This was rejected, by the Condon Report.

It was the biased opinion of Condon , that effectivly ended official Public investigation of UFO's by the Air Force.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek's review of the Condon Report.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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The notion of an archetypal 'trickster' has been brought up before I think, but I suppose it desrves a mention here, particularly considering the thread title.

I believe that there may be some truth behind this idea. We still do not fully understand the wortkings of the human mind, so who is to say that what some people think they see, is not simply a manifestation of deeply engrained psychological phenomenon.
I know that many examples are cited as 'evidence', but until, as some people say, a UFO turns up on the White House lawn, I will sit on the fence.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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quote lost_shaman
"Take J. Allen Hynek for example , as head of Blue Book he discounted many UFO sightings ( most for good reason ),
he later called for Scientific Study of the Phenomena. This was rejected, by the Condon Report.
It was the biased opinion of Condon , that effectivly ended official Public investigation of UFO's by the Air Force."

Did you read the reference you gave? Dr. Hynek was a consultant to Blue Book from 1952 to 1969. He was NOT head of it.

OIC's of Blue Book listed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I am curious about the biased opinion of Condon.

Condon, E. U., Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects New York: Bantam 1968

Of all the books on UFO's, Condon's is the only formally recognized, valid scientific study of the topic, and
the only one accepted by the National Academy of Sciences. Biased or not, that is one opinion I keep in
my library.

Note for backtoreality:

Take it easy on these folks. They wear their feelings on their sleeves.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by nightwing
quote lost_shaman
"Take J. Allen Hynek for example , as head of Blue Book he discounted many UFO sightings ( most for good reason ),
he later called for Scientific Study of the Phenomena. This was rejected, by the Condon Report.
It was the biased opinion of Condon , that effectivly ended official Public investigation of UFO's by the Air Force."

Did you read the reference you gave? Dr. Hynek was a consultant to Blue Book from 1952 to 1969. He was NOT head of it.

OIC's of Blue Book listed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I am curious about the biased opinion of Condon.

Condon, E. U., Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects New York: Bantam 1968

Of all the books on UFO's, Condon's is the only formally recognized, valid scientific study of the topic, and
the only one accepted by the National Academy of Sciences. Biased or not, that is one opinion I keep in
my library.

Note for backtoreality:

Take it easy on these folks. They wear their feelings on their sleeves.


Excuse me for a slight , in the middle of the night.

For some reason ( Freudian slip ) I confused J.Allen Hynek w/ Edward J. Ruppelt.

I stand by the point I was making . Did you read Dr. Hynek's Review of the opinion you keep in your library?

I somehow doubt you did.

P.S. You don't think that a "Scientific Study" into the UFO Phenomena might be biased , when its color-cover shows (quoting Hynek)"an immediately identifiable photo of a lens flare. "


While devoted in the large part to exposing hoaxes or revealing many UFOs as misidentifications of common occurrences, the book leaves the same strange, inexplicable residue of unknowns which has plagued the U.S. Air Force investigation for 20 years. In fact, the percentage of "unknowns" in the Condon report appears to be even higher than in the Air Force investigation (Project Blue Book) - which led to the Condon investigation in the first place. Every contributor to the report finds in his particular area of examination (photos, radar-visual sightings, physical evidence, etc. ) something that cannot be dismissed as a misidentification of known phenomena.


Hmm... That doesn't seem to jibe with Dr. Condon's opinion , does it.

[edit on 18-6-2005 by lost_shaman]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:09 AM
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"Hmm... That doesn't seem to jibe with Dr. Condon's opinion , does it" == lost


There is something called "the dissent" when the supreme court does not fully agree.
But we go with the courts majority decision.

There are parallels here, I think.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:50 AM
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So,
Can YOU prove that aliens does NOT exist ?
I really doubt...no one can.

And you arguing with senseless theory about everyone if crazy, and spreading around we are alone is like the ppl in the past that believe the earth was flat or we were the center of the universe.


Actually there is much more evidences proving that alien life exist that it doesnt.
Stop beign lazy and do some research.

There is some countries that already confirm they research this area.

It seems you took the wrong pill.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Krpano
So,
Can YOU prove that aliens does NOT exist ?
I really doubt...no one can.

And you arguing with senseless theory about everyone if crazy, and spreading around we are alone is like the ppl in the past that believe the earth was flat or we were the center of the universe.


Actually there is much more evidences proving that alien life exist that it doesnt.

Here we go again...
I've said this so many times, I'm just going to add it to my signature.


When making outrageous claims, the burden of proof lies not with those trying to be convinced, but with those making the claims


As for the "evidence". If you, or anyone else had it, it would be included in every textbook in the world. Until that happens it is only speculation.

Let me cite a real world example:
In nuclear physics (probably comprising the smartest people in the world), theories predict the existence of certain unknown particles. But until they are found, they are only speculated as existing particles. Then when they are found, based by hard science and data, they throw a big party and everyone is happy.

So you see, Krapno, it is not "stupid people" who wait for evidence to support a theory; it is in fact the logical thing to do.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:54 AM
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backtoreality,

First u post:


Originally posted by backtoreality on 2-6-2005 at 03:49 AM
... it seems suspicious that every person claiming an abduction also has a book for sale to detail the account.


And now u post:


Originally posted by backtoreality
I've said this so many times, I'm just going to add it to my signature.

When making outrageous claims, the burden of proof lies not with those trying to be convinced, but with those making the claims



Well then, your claim is rather outrageous or a hasty generalization...or can u prove that every abducted person has a book for sale?


[edit on 19-6-2005 by evilution]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by KhieuSamphan
The notion of an archetypal 'trickster' has been brought up before I think, but I suppose it desrves a mention here, particularly considering the thread title.

I believe that there may be some truth behind this idea.
We still do not fully understand the wortkings of the human mind,
so who is to say that what some people think they see, is not simply a manifestation of deeply engrained psychological phenomenon.


i'm in your camp

the late Joseph Campbell, the quintessential Mythologist thinks the modern UFO & abduction phenomena are created in our own psyches.

but i also see that cellular-memory//morphic resonance might be woven into this.
but that is a inward & convoluted journey, probably left to us schizo's &
non-ordinary reality sojourners...


[edit on 19-6-2005 by St Udio]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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The fact is , very few people have true hallucinations.

The majority of us require an external stimuli to " see" something.

The Fantasy theory , just doesn't hold water. There are just to many credible poeple , all over the world , and they would all have to be in on this fantasy, and this theory would not explain the anamolus "Unknowns" in photographs , and video's , Radar contacts , ect.

If the theory requires that you overlook evidence , it fails.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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im not saying aliens are coming down to earth and taking people or not, but i could go about just like you and say 'God is nothing but from someone else's fantasy' just the same and i would have people that agree, and people that disagree.
my point is, you don't know if their real or fake any more than i do. dont believe everything you see on tv, thats an unhealthy habit.
oh yeah, and this was an extremely biased thread on your part IKnowSomethingYouDont, tsk tsk. in the future, do your homework.

[edit on 19/6/2005 by Kitsunegari]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by evilution
backtoreality,

First u post:


Originally posted by backtoreality on 2-6-2005 at 03:49 AM
... it seems suspicious that every person claiming an abduction also has a book for sale to detail the account.


And now u post:


Originally posted by backtoreality
I've said this so many times, I'm just going to add it to my signature.

When making outrageous claims, the burden of proof lies not with those trying to be convinced, but with those making the claims



Well then, your claim is rather outrageous or a hasty generalization...or can u prove that every abducted person has a book for sale?


Good call evilution. Obviously I will have to watch my sarcasm in the future when mixing it in with more serious content.

But my statement still stands. Don't get mad or frustrated and then criticize when people don't see eye to eye with you on what most consider to be an outrageous topic (not directed towards you personally). I'm not a skeptic by nature and I'm open minded, but I also have limits on what I consider to be a reasonable theory--and worldwide governement coverups, extraterrestrials giving joyrides, and lizards scheming to rule the world do not qualify as such.

But hey, maybe I'm just 'ignerent'. Anytime you come across that conclusive proof you be sure to let me know.



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