you've probably seen this but

i'm sorry but i have yet seen anyone prove wrong my theories of why it has holes. large holes? i dont know. re read my first post and i explain everything.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Satyr
As mentioned above, he didn't say anything about the Y2K scare. He only mentioned a 2038 bug, which is real.

Yes... and no. Here... do a thought analysis with me: How many computers controlling critical systems (or any systems) are currently on IBM PC (8088 models) running the IBM version of DOS 2.1? How much of the world went offline in 2000 because of IBM 8088s running DOS2.1?

How much did you read? We seem to have two completely different versions of what he said he wanted that particular PC for. From what I read, I'm pretty sure he said he just needed that PC as a tool to help figure out the 2038 problem, not to use as any part of a control system. He never implied anything of the such, IIRC.

Although you guys say there's "no holes in his story", others have pointed out some of the very obvious ones. Oh yes... and the "Mysterious Time Travel Device" is actually surplus military equipment from the 1970's. Take it to any gun show and ask folks about it. Someone will sell you one, and you can tinker with it (hook your own car battery up to it) and confirm for yourself that someone is putting out fancy diagrams and blowing smoke at people who don't bother checking facts.

Man, there have been countless people investigating this. Many people who are/were in the Army. No one has yet to identify that piece of equipment, that I know of. If you think you can find someone who can identify it, go right ahead! I'd love to see this proven either true or false, beyond the shadow of a doubt. You could be the first to do it, eh? Quit flapping your gums about people not checking the facts, and do it!

Originally posted by hmmm
i'm sorry but i have yet seen anyone prove wrong my theories of why it has holes. large holes? i dont know. re read my first post and i explain everything.

I don't think you're quite grasping the concept. Everything in your first post was explained in detail. If you're looking for the answers, do what the rest of us have to do....read. If you still don't understand after it's explained, then you're just not going to period, unfortunately. What he said does seem to make perfect sense, if you can comprehend the time travel theory he explains. I'm seeing a few here that don't appear to be getting it. Granted, it is quite complicated.

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

Okay Hmmm, here are you answers:
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no large holes? yeah I don't think anyone's been chewing on this thread

(reading first post)
btw you can search for these post number on the page (hit ctrl-f)

1. Would Never Go Back To His Timeline:

see posts: 163809, indirectly 163820, and 163993
Specifically: He admits that "he" won't really be going back. And he doesn't care and is going out for the world line where "he" does come back.

2. If He Doesn't Care Then Why Is He Posting!?
see post163993
Specifically: "About not caring. Humans don't operate logically, but emotionally. He does care and does not care if you (a select group of people) believe him. He wants to get his story out." Kinda like a futile last attempt, that we all are guilty of.

3. Why Does He Need Old Tech When He Has New Tech?
see post 164051
Specifically: A lot of machinery runs of off old code. There is no serious industrialization yet so he can't replace things like power plant chips, etc. He can use what's there, just not replace it. So reprogramming is the only option.

4. A Grandma "Cherry" Chevy is Impossible
see post 163933
Specifically: He's traveling through time so its not like X number of subjective years have passed. Also, it's said that he switches cars.

Does that help?

I think some people don't want to believe it right off the bat. If it doesn't interest them, they don't look for the answers to their questions at all. Or they're just not capable of grasping the concept? I showed this to a friend of mine on another forum, and he actually appeared to get angry....like he wasn't going to waste his time even reading most of it, because he'd already decided it was impossible. I tend to think anything is possible, until I see proof otherwise.

The first thing he did, before he'd even done any research, was say:
"CERN = SKYNETesque from terminator"

He was so ready not to believe this, he would've stopped right there, if I hadn't given him a link to the real CERN.

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

first off what i am saying about not returning to his own worldline is that the more he travles the more off he gets. the percent would add up. your saying it would be off .002 but he never explains that. actually he contradicts himself on taht part cause if he is off 1 to 2 percent each time he travles therefore returning to his own worldline he would be off at least AT LEAST 1 TO 2 PERCENT!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!


next if his tech is so advanced it seems like they could reinvite or even make better basic stuff so not needing our crappy stuff.

third i thought he said he looked for the car in his own worldline if he did not say that i'm sorry i missread.

fourth... i forgot what your fourth one was

o ya why he talks to us. why would we talk to us? he states he doesnt care if we believe him or not fortybillion times give or take forty billion, roughly. why does he keep saying it if he keeps posting to us. who is he trying to convince that he doesnt care about us? yet he is obviously post for some reason. not because his emotion tells him to but because he is bored and wants to trick some people.

also i was and still am very open minded and he did have me going for quite awhile. my grandfather another smart man read it and he was also fooled for a while but he now concurs with me that some of the stuff he says doesnt add up

Originally posted by hmmm
first off what i am saying about not returning to his own worldline is that the more he travles the more off he gets. the percent would add up. your saying it would be off .002 but he never explains that. actually he contradicts himself on taht part cause if he is off 1 to 2 percent each time he travles therefore returning to his own worldline he would be off at least AT LEAST 1 TO 2 PERCENT!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

You didn't read the part where he explained that? That's why he had to return to any other previous time first, in the reverse order....otherwise yes, you'd be correct. It'd be way off.
He laid it out in simple terms. This isn't word for word, but think of as points A, B, C, D....etc. If he traveled from point A to point B, to point C, he'd have to return to point B before he could return to point A. See??? If he just tried to go directly back to point A, yes...there would be a horrible divergence. He probably explained this better than I just did. I'd look for it, but it would probably take me quite awhile to find it. You'd do better to go read it yourself. Kind of hurts your head, doesn't it?

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

wait listen!!! EVERYTIME HE TRAVELS THE DIVERGENCE IS OFF 1 TO 2 PERCENT!!! CORRECT? SO WHEN HE GOES BACKWARDS TO 1975 HE DOESNT LAND ON B WHERE HE SHOULD GO HE LANDS ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORLDLINE!! CORRECT? NO WHERE IN HIS WRITINGS DID HE SAY HE COULD DICTATE WHAT WORLDLINE HE LANDED ON!!! SO THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF HIS EXPLANITION WORKING!!!

yo hmmm.

Read my post, i answer every question you just posted. I give references to the thread. You seem to have overlooked it. It's on this page. ctrl-f -> 164075

It's post #164075.

Damnit! You're going to make me find this again? It made perfect sense the way he explained it, just as the mirror example did. I mean, there have been real physicists also trying to debunk this. It's tough to wrap your head around. I'll see if I can find the parts where he explains it again.

[edit] Here ya go...see if you can make sense out of this.

Q: If this worldline is 2 percent divergent from your worldline, how do you get home? If you go forward from here to 2036, won't the divergence approach infinity?

Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this worldline, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.

Your deductions are quite accurate. Its possible to go forward to "your" 2036 and it would look nothing like mine.

A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.

On my worldline: (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).

From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I'm there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).

I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.

When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

Crap! ktprktpr, you beat me to it!


[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

yes i acknowledge this fact but if he kept time traveling then wouldnt he get further and further away from his own worldline? therefore he would get into timelines where he didnt even exist!!!! just like when he said he could trave to when jesus was born but he prolly wouldht be born. if he does more then 1 operation as i believe he has he proably now 25 percent divergence from his own worldline? i dont know if you know but 25% is a # load!! some major things are going to be different!

Somethign I noted: He never said that traveling to the future would create a divergence.

However, the problem with that, is obviously you're creating a new world line. BUT, but is divergence created? What if it's just a world line with you in it?

I'm going see if I can find that refence Saytr talks about...

You do have a good point, though. But it doesn't "kill" it. See my post about human's working off of emotion; post # 163993

johntitor.com... DECEMBER 2000 date
------------
If I go forward on this worldline, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.

A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it.

On my worldline: (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A).

From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I'm there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B).

I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000.

When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

If all this isn't enough to get your head spinning�here are some issues we're dealing with in 2036.

1. Did your worldline (D) exist at all before I got here from (C)? (personally I don't see how it couldn't)

2. What happens at the end of a worldline at the edge of the super universe?

3. If there are infinite worldlines and infinite possibilities and an edge to the super universe, doesn't that mean occurring events on worldliness are staggered as they reach the edge? (time could end at any moment without warning).

Happy New Year everyone!

he said that traveling into the future does create a divergence but its not as much as goin into the past so i should probably cut donw my percentage. i am just saying how could he go time traveling when he may never come hoem to a place where he belongs or wanted? i mean there is a chance that he could land on a worldline where everyone on earth is dead. also why would him leaving his timeline matter? in fact there is no need for him to leave if he will never return just wait for a time traveler from another dimension to arrive on his

there you go his explantion for how he gets home makes absolutely no sense. how can he dictate where he lands? he cant! he says he cant the machine picks one close! close not the same one he is saying he goes back to the same timelines. but he doesnt. does no one but me see the flawed logic? he claims one thing but then in is explanation for getting home is another. he says he always lands on a different worldline therefore he cant go back to b to get back to a!! why would going back dictate where you land in teh future. actually wouldnt goiong back make it more divergence for him going home because it is less acurate at longer ranges?

You still don't get it? When he gets back to point B, he arrives before he originally got there. Then, he goes forward to point A, from the point he originally arrived. In theory, as long as he returns to the second point before he arrived, the divergence is only the original 2%....or very close.

He also said;

The divergence measurement refers to the local gravitational field as compared to the point of origin. It is merely an empirical indicator of overall change in a worldline. Some things that are quite different on one worldline have very little effect as time passes and the worldlines appear to "converge" again and look very similar. Worldline changes are not exponential; they act more like chaotic attractors with varying effect depending on their size and location.

[Edited on 31-8-2003 by Satyr]

Hmmm, Hmmm.

You are right.

It's like this:

He said that everytime goes some where, in the past or in the future, he creates another time line. Period. "As soon as I turn off my machine I create another Worldline."

So, when he goes back/forward multiple times he's hitting new worldlines. So he can never go back.

But he can go back to a world line that's pretty damn close. If he does a lot of small jumps he'll be very accurate, as opposed. Now why would you leave, knowing you would never come back? It's emotional, i guess. At least the other world lines has the fortune of being saved.
That's the best I can come up with for now. This certainly strikes a logical blow.

Satyr

But by going back before point B he creates or goes into another worldline. He's created another worldline and the divergence grows.

apparently YOU dont get it. he cant go back to the same worldline. just as he said he can never come back here. he can never go back to the 1975 before he arrived! for gods sake listen. he says everytime he travels he lands on a new worldline? correct? do you follow so far? so if that is true then his explanition for getting home is false. because he can not return to b but a different worldline f in his theory. everytime he starts the machine up he lands on a different worldline. get it? B C and A are totally gone. he can go back in any order but how would that help him? he is going to land on differnet ones each time dammit. so the refrence to going back to before c is to be is retarded cause by his own theory you cnat get back there!!! please understand this time i am tired of saying the same thing 5 million times