It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Will the rapture be blamed on UFOs?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 31 2005 @ 08:33 AM
link   
I sometimes go to this site out of curiosity.

www.fivedoves.com...

This morning, for some unknown reason, I accidentally clicked on the April letters instead of May’s letters and found this.

www.fivedoves.com...

I am no follower of Ms. Agee but I enjoy reading how people think that they can predict the rapture.

After realizing that I was in April’s letters, I switched to May’s letters and found this.

www.fivedoves.com...

Then I found this on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This brings me to a conspiracy theory that I have heard. Many people do not believe in the rapture and will do whatever it takes to discredit the very idea of a rapture. The theory is that when the rapture does take place, the disappearance will be related to a mass UFO abduction.

The occurrence of the rapture should be proof that the Christians were right and that those “left behind” should perhaps read the Bible to understand what has happened and what will happen. But if the rapture is explained away as a mass UFO abduction, then everything that the Christians have been saying for years about the rapture will be discredited.




posted on May, 31 2005 @ 08:52 AM
link   
as far as the rapture theory goes, do all members of the 16 major religions besides christians get left behind just because they don't profess to have accepted jesus ? Doesn't this seem like just a Christian recruiting story to you ?
This is a lot of people left behind.....

Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:13 AM
link   
syrinx, I agree. The Christian belief of the rapture IS exclusive to all other religions. It is one of the few religions that claim that their way is the only way. I don't care what everybody else believes, that is their choice. Having freedom of choice gives a right to believe whatever you wish to believe.

I'm not out to recruit new Christians. I just find it interesting that both events have been "prophesized" for the same week. If both events happen simultaneously what do you think people will believe?



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:22 AM
link   
hey darkelf, I didn;t mean to imply anything towards you,
just that the rapture has always struck me as a parable or moral of sorts designed to tell people that if you accept christ, you go to heaven, if you do not, you get left behind. Its similar to a technique parents use to get their kids to isten to them.....



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:34 AM
link   
No offense taken, I just wish there was a way to convey an even tone of voice through writing. If I got offended that easily I wouldn't be posting on these boards.

I want people to challenge and question my beliefs. It is the only way for me to consistently challenge and question them myself.

BTW, I always felt that hellfire and brimstone sermons were recruiting tools.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 11:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by darkelf

This brings me to a conspiracy theory that I have heard. Many people do not believe in the rapture and will do whatever it takes to discredit the very idea of a rapture. The theory is that when the rapture does take place, the disappearance will be related to a mass UFO abduction.

The occurrence of the rapture should be proof that the Christians were right and that those “left behind” should perhaps read the Bible to understand what has happened and what will happen. But if the rapture is explained away as a mass UFO abduction, then everything that the Christians have been saying for years about the rapture will be discredited.


...........................................................................

the only way these views & ideas have any meaning.....Is IF the 'rapture'
event
is a Pre-Tribulation rapture event
(meaning that organized society is still doing newscasts & such)

on the otherhand, if the 'rapture' happens at the 'Last Trump'....
(( that is after the carnage of the plagues, & vials & wraths & wars & woormwood meteorite & armageddon & 4 horsemen of apocalypse...))
after only a remnant of flesh are saved alive! ......................................Well, the survivors, probably wouldn't care!!
or make it an important distinction on who disappeared because of a 'rapture'

->or who disappeared because of being vaporized by an atomic bomb,
->or got beheaded by the antichrist's and beast's army of '666' marked people, who got doomed into a lake of fire or thrown into a bottomless pit
or who gone into perdition & been slain by the angels led by Michael.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i think her (Agees') june 4th 2005, insight,
doesn't blend well,
Because, just one additional condition is that the Last Pope must be reigning !
another condition is that the 3rd Temple has to be offering 'sacrifices'
there are just too many events which must be in place (which are not contemporary)
for a pre-tribulation 'Rapture' to be just A-Week-Away

Her idea is just enough fluff to be readable & entertaining & help provoke thoughtful analysis,
thanks for the posting darkelf


[edit on 31-5-2005 by St Udio]



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 11:11 AM
link   
The "rapture" isn't even a mainstream Christian belief, it's something peculiar to the US in the last few years.

I live in the UK an have actually been asking anyone I know is either religious or was brought up religious what they think of the "rapture". I haven't found a single one who had heard of it. Once I explained the concept some would say something along the lines of "ah, like the Jehovah's Witnesses" - who I think have a similar concept. However their leaders have made the mistake several times of actually putting a date on it, and then it didn't happen and everyone had to go home dissappointed that the world didn't end. Jevovah's Witnesses are considered way outside mainstraim religion over here, and are a bit of a laughing stock.

I'm interested to know how something that sounds like a cult thing has got so popular in the US?

From the beginining of civilisation there have always been people who believe they are living in the "end times", so I'm never sure what makes people nowadays think they are right when they say it is going to happen soon, as they are always proved to be wrong.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 11:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

I'm interested to know how something that sounds like a cult thing has got so popular in the US?



I am in my 50s and have been taught this since I was very small. I was taught this in a fundamentalist Baptist church. And we were taught the pre-trib version. I am still questioning this doctrine as I question everything else.

But to answer your question, I suppose it springs from hope. If you believe in the "great tribulation", then wouldn't it stand to reason that you would want some way out of it? A pre-trib rapture would only bring hope to those who believe the end of the world as told in Revelations.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:25 PM
link   
Many people would die if the rapture would happen: say if christians were to be driving airplanes,cars,etc.

I CORINTHIANS 15:50-53
15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

www.tomorrowsnewspaper.net...

[edit on 2-6-2005 by TheApocalypse]



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:34 PM
link   
here's some info on that subject
www.bibleufo.com...



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 07:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by darkelf
This brings me to a conspiracy theory that I have heard. Many people do not believe in the rapture and will do whatever it takes to discredit the very idea of a rapture. The theory is that when the rapture does take place, the disappearance will be related to a mass UFO abduction.

For the record, the ONLY people saying this are the Christian fundamentalists who believe in the Rapture.

And frankly, I don't see anyone buying it. If you went to work and found two people had disappeared, would you REALLY believe "captured by aliens"? Particularly if you never saw any alien ships or saw any aliens?

I'd believe "whisked away by military troops" long before I'd believe alien abduction.



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 08:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by darkelf
This brings me to a conspiracy theory that I have heard. Many people do not believe in the rapture and will do whatever it takes to discredit the very idea of a rapture. The theory is that when the rapture does take place, the disappearance will be related to a mass UFO abduction.

For the record, the ONLY people saying this are the Christian fundamentalists who believe in the Rapture.

And frankly, I don't see anyone buying it. If you went to work and found two people had disappeared, would you REALLY believe "captured by aliens"? Particularly if you never saw any alien ships or saw any aliens?

I'd believe "whisked away by military troops" long before I'd believe alien abduction.



Actually it is only the Christians who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Some Christians believe in the rapture, but there is disagreement as to when it will take place. I believe in the pre-trib rapture, so since I plan to go up when it happens, I was curious as to what the prevailing theory will be to explain the dissappearances.

I never knew that so many people believed in ets and UFOs until I came to ATS. I always thought it was just some fringe group of weirdoes. But I have read many threads on the UFO board by intelligent people who actually believe. And although I don't believe in UFOs, I no longer think that these people who do are strange. I think that UFOs will be a plausible theory since no one will want to believe the truth.


And since no one questioned my last post . . .


Originally posted by darkelf
But to answer your question, I suppose it springs from hope. If you believe in the "great tribulation", then wouldn't it stand to reason that you would want some way out of it? A pre-trib rapture would only bring hope to those who believe the end of the world as told in Revelations.


From KJV
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (emphasis mine)

Maranatha



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 10:25 PM
link   
Can someone show me the bible passages that talk about a rapture? I have not seen in the bible where it says there will be a rapture of people.




Rapture,
Anyone?
by Greg Albrecht


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those who believe and teach the rapture cannot agree among themselves, and no wonder, for they lack firm biblical foundation for this fictional teaching.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teachings about the rapture are based upon the assumptions of dispensationalism, a method of biblical interpretation popularized by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Dispensationalism relies upon several presuppositions:

1. God works and administers his plan during different periods of time upon differing foundational principles.

2. The Scripture is to be interpreted literally.

3. All biblical prophecy should be understood by premillennialism -- that Christ will return and then set up an earthly reign for one thousand years.



Some believe that the very nature of God, that he is the same yesterday, today and forever is challenged (and denied?) by the first presupposition. This assumption, at best, is a speculation. No clear, dogmatic biblical evidence supports it.

The second presupposition is of course partially true, but it fails to acknowledge huge portions of the Bible that are written as poetry, and were never intended to be understood literally. All literature, including the Bible, uses devices such as metaphor and allegory to alert us to the fact that the author has another meaning, other than the literal in mind. Many times such poetic meanings are used to convey a depth of meaning that a literal interpretation cannot.

The third assumption fails to accept that there are several ways to interpret biblical prophecy, and that premillennialism has never been, and is not now, favored by the majority of Christians.

If one accepts these three propositions as logically sound and biblically true, in the face of the fact that the majority of Christianity does not, then and only then can one be predisposed to accepting the idea of a rapture. One more caution must be thrown to the wind if one is to accept the rapture.

One of the basic rules of understanding the Bible is to read passages within their intended context. One must never forget that the message had a meaning in its original context and to its original readers and listeners. Then and only then might we make an interpretation for our lives. This cardinal and basic rule of Bible study must be ignored if the Left Behind interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is to be considered anything but fictional.

A careful reading of the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, especially verse 17, will reveal that Paul's intent in writing this passage was not even close to the rapture theory that was forced upon this text almost 1800 years later.

The rapture teaching also goes against one of the "rules" of those who teach it. Dispensationalism and its followers has long favored the practice of endless quotations of many passages, "proof" of a teaching or proposition by sheer weight of passages that happen to include a particular word or phrase.

John Nelson Darby, the father of dispensationalism, once said, "I prefer quoting many passages than enlarging upon them." Overwhelming a topic with the sheer number of passages intended to prove a point, regardless of the context and genre of literature used by each passage, is of course a serious abuse of the Bible -- something the Bible warns against (2 Timothy 2:15). Some call it "spoof texting" while others call it "Scrip-torture." However, in the case of the rapture, this commonly used dispensational device is abandoned, as only a few passages can even remotely be "used" to prove such an event.
Article



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 10:39 PM
link   
Well there are 2 views


amillenialist and premillennialist


One the rapture is first and the other its the last..


I am not sure as scripture can be seen both ways. I would be interested in what the Bible Code has to say about this corundum.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 09:51 AM
link   
Even if there is a rapture we don't know when it would take place.(pre,mid,post-tribulation)



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 10:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
The "rapture" isn't even a mainstream Christian belief, it's something peculiar to the US in the last few years.


OK, that one has me puzzled. That statement implies that the Bible there is differrent from the Bible here (US). Every person that has spent time here in the states within the Christian dogma I mean religion is taught all about the Rapture (mine, Fundemental Baptist, revolves that the rapture is THE first action to happen).

@ syrinx high priest

All those numbers you posted ........ I was 8yrs old and asked my parents (just after church, guess it was another of countless "hell fire yer gonna die" Sundays) that if it happens like this, what about all the other people in the world? The answer was "well, they all go to hell forever son".
Even at 8yrs old, that simply did NOT sit well with me as to how this "God" is suuposed to be. The actions I heard of in church of the Christian God would be as me telling my daughter that I love her more than anything else and will always protect her ....... then spin around and backhand the hell out of her across the room just because she did not believe that.

Also, like your "parent / child / threat" analogy, heh, never thought of that.

@ darkelf

Sounds like you are, in at least some degree, doubting your faith. Well? DOUBT IT !!!! I grew up being taught that doubting the Christian realm was a direct sin against God. Once I began myself to doubt, I was all but castrated. This eventually turned into an ultimatum by my parents (as directed by ...... drumroll..... the church), of which I chose my own path (rendering me homeless at the age of 14, can't have a heathen teen living in our God fearing house can we). What is WRONG with doubting? Oh oh oh, I know, "the Bible says so". The Bible also talks about God GIVING man the capacity to think for himself. Would you go to Hell for doubting? Would Demons taunt you nightly for doubting? Would your God banish you for BEING HUMAN and doubting? Seems to me that, if the Christian way is the truth, and a person is doubting that truth, that the owner of that truth (God) would make himself more pronounced to that doubter, to ease his/her pain, to reassure that the God is, in fact, with them.

Hell, maybe it's me that's right - that the Bible is truth in some aspects (royally SCREWED by men lusting dominance, hence "translating" it to suite their needs - for instance ..... "Witch" ..... NOWHERE in the original Hebrew transcripts is any word translating to what a Witch of common or past times is, the original word translates to "well-poisoner", that is ancient times equevelant of foods today being tainted with poisons; but the Christian relam felt threatened by the draw Paganism had on people, what better way to stifle it to bring Christianity back into dominance than to say that "God" says these people should die; Back to my point --- the story of the Tower of Babel ...... the Bible says God scattered the people across the land, and gave them all new languages. Is it only me that fathoms with these new peoples and new languages and new lives, also comes to each a new religion? Hmmmmmm.

Anyway, darkelf, no bashing whatsoever at ya. While I am a very outspoken anti-christian theology person, when I see a self-announced Christian in dialogue repesenting a "normal" person (as you have displayed) then I enjoy talking with that person just as any other :=]

Side note - any Christian parents reading this ....... FORCING your kid to believe, to go to church, to read the Bible every day gets you but one thing - a non-Christian. I had become so brain-washed and so bitter from all this, that not only did I abandoned Chrstianity, I abandoned ALL factes of ANY spirituality. For the next 20yrs, there was NO God, NO spiritualness, NO high morals ...... Christianity took a typical 14yr old and turned him into hate personified.

But it's ok now, Goddess found me :=]

BTW - what if it's the other way around? Billions vanish, but all the Christians were left? I guess they would say Satan took them, as UFO's are from "The Underworld ". Hell, the Christians I know would say that God changed his prohecy and just skipped the middle 7,000 years, gave the Earth to them now.

Misfit

Edit = added UFO comment

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Misfit]



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 12:48 PM
link   
Misfit, it looks like we have similar backgrounds. I spent close to 30 years making fun of Christians. I was actually worse than some of the people on these boards, so I can understand where some of them come from. I could not make sense with inconsistencies in the Bible or what I was taught in the Fundamental Baptist church that I grew up in. Most of the “Christians” that I knew were so hypocritical, that I wanted nothing to do with them or their God.

When my three year old nephew drowned seven years ago, I challenged God. It’s funny that I would challenge a being that I insisted did not exist. Perhaps it was my background that made me even consider railing at God. But the interesting thing about it is He reached out to me. It was a spiritual epiphany that changed my life.

I’m not sure that I doubt my faith as much as question everything I have ever been taught about the Bible. I use the KJV simply because that is what I am comfortable with. However, when I am reading for understanding, I use the KJV with Strong’s numbers to cross reference with the Strong’s Concordance. I do not claim to understand everything, but I will state my beliefs as just my beliefs.

I found your parent/child analogy interesting. This is my take on it. If I tell my daughter that she will be grounded if she sneaks out of her room at night, should I ground her when I catch her disobeying me? I think that God created mankind with a free will so that we could choose for ourselves whether to accept his gift that gives us from eternal life or try to find our own way.

My belief is that Hell was not created for people but for the angels who rebelled against God. Hell is the total absence of God. If God is love, life, truth, hope, etc . . . ., then Hell must be the absence of those things. But anyway, if people don’t believe in God, the Bible, Jesus or anything religious then these things shouldn’t concern them. In my case it was anger that made me so unforgiving of Christians. Just my 2 cents.


BTW - what if it's the other way around? Billions vanish, but all the Christians were left? I guess they would say Satan took them, as UFO's are from "The Underworld ". Hell, the Christians I know would say that God changed his prohecy and just skipped the middle 7,000 years, gave the Earth to them now.


Now that would be interesting!


Maranatha



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 01:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Misfit
OK, that one has me puzzled. That statement implies that the Bible there is differrent from the Bible here (US). Every person that has spent time here in the states within the Christian dogma I mean religion is taught all about the Rapture (mine, Fundemental Baptist, revolves that the rapture is THE first action to happen).


Well the interpretation of the Bible and the emphasis you place on it is different in every culture. Fundamentalists may claim different, but it is an obvious truth. The Church of England (the "official" church over here) hardly places any emphasis on the Old Testament, and has a large liberal wing (ironically it's most liberal followers seem to be in the US) - some of whom think important parts of the Bible (such as the resurection) could be metaphor, rather than the literal truth. However does have a evangelical wing who have been more vocal in recent years, but you won't hear them talking about a rapture. Overall though the C of E seems to be more into tea and sandwiches rather fire and brimstone.

The biggest christian church in the world is the Catholics and, at least in Europe, they will never talk about the rapture or anything similar. I quizzed my wife (lapsed Catholic) and her mother (nearly trained to be a nun in Ireland and one of her sisters was) and they had never heard of it.

As I said, I think some of you guys from the US don't realise how this isn't a "core" Christian belief for most of the world's christians. Personally I'm always gobsmaking when I see the number of people in the US who believe the rapture will happen in their lifetimes (do these people have pensions and savings accounts?).

By the way check out the Rapture Index:

www.raptureready.com...

This is simply beyond parody. These guys have actually got a world misery index and the higher it gets the better, as it means we are closer to the end times. It shouldn't need pointing out that the world has been in a much worse state before (try the last 2 world wars) and we didn't have a rapture. But apparently rising EU interest rates take us that one small step closer to God.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 01:53 PM
link   
OMG!

He's not joking - this thing is beyond parody!

Here's a snip from the main page:


You could say the Rapture index is a Dow Jones Industrial Average of end time activity, but I think it would be better if you viewed it as prophetic speedometer. The higher the number, the faster we're moving towards the occurrence of pre-tribulation rapture.

Rapture Index of 85 and Below: Slow prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 85 to 110: Moderate prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 110 to 145: Heavy prophetic activity
Rapture Index above 145: Fasten your seat belts





posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 02:24 PM
link   
@ FatherLukeDuke ........"rising EU interest rates"..........

Thanks alot - now I have to clean the spewed coffee from my kkeeeyyyborrrd

@ darkelf

I hear ya about the 30yrs. Mine has been delved in the hate for. I don't hate all unconditionally, that decision is left until I hear their stance ...... "I'm a Chrsitian, hope you have a great day" or "I'm a Chrsitian, from the necklace you wear I see you kill babies". Ugh, I so hate that last one. Hell if the parents knew I was Pagan I swear they would call every preacher and Christian school teacher I had to attempt an intervention, lol.

I have, admittedly, said things (incuding at this site) I wish I had not. While warranted for rebuttal, particulars of that rebuttal should have been left out. There are some Wiccans on this board that have, while saying nothing, have by example reminded me that it's for me and our way to NOT be so brash against people. But DAMN, it gets so hard not to. This for example, I had never met this particular person that, within my first threads involved in here, said God hates me and is sending me to Hell ........ because I am Pagan. Ugh. Guess it's good I'm sober today - last time someone at a bar said that to me, he had a sudden case of vertical imbalance syndrome, heh (but c'mon eh, do you walk up to a Biker in a bar and tell him he's going to Hell because he wears a Pentegram? lolol)

Sorry for you and yours, of your nephew. I lost my son in '93. All that did towards spirituality was weld the fact that there simply IS NO GOD ANYWHERE. (note: "is" now = "was", er, sumpin like that, lol)

Parent/child: can't take credit, it is from poster "syrinx high priest".

I don't bother reading the Bible since I had to leave home, subsequently no longer MADE to read it. Too much crap in it placed and changed by the likes of dominance hungry men. Too many falicies. I just wanna die when I here a preacher say "literal word of God". UUUGGGHHHH!!!! To those men I want to ask "do you know what the word VERSION MEANS!!" It means different, changed, altered. But it's the literal word of God, different words and all - I guess God appeared to King James in the 1600's and said "change well-poisoner to Witch". Jeez

Hypocrasy: I hear ya on that. My parents, and every other Christian I new, would go to church, preach/listen/talk/sing about how God is love, we should love one another, don't hurt anyone else, be true to who is yours, etc, etc, ........ then go home watch cop shows of husbands shooting wifes lover after being cuaght after he got drunk at a bar. Yep, good way to set the lesson.

Damn, what was this thread about? heh

Misfit







 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join