Many Quotes written by High Level Masons proclaiming Lucifer as God

Yada, yada, yada. The both of you have covienently overlooked the link.

Call me what you will. Think of me what you will. But dont dismiss the LINK

Are you saying Lucifer is not real?

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Yada, yada, yada. The both of you have covienently overlooked the link.

Call me what you will. Think of me what you will. But dont dismiss the LINK

Conveniently overlooked it? You U2U'd me and asked me to look at it, and I told you the same thing then that I am telling you now: it's worthless. those "orbs" of yours could be ANYTHING, you have absolutely no evidence of anything. So get over yourself.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Yada, yada, yada. The both of you have covienently overlooked the link.

Call me what you will. Think of me what you will. But dont dismiss the LINK

Are you saying Lucifer is not real?

Looked at it, heard it before, and I think it is absurd to claim that Freemasons have anything to do with aliens, UFO's, reptilians, or whatever the next konspiracy kook will try to tell you.

Do I think there is intelligent life in the universe besides us? Yes. We'd be pretty arrogant (or stupid) NOT to think so. Do I think that there are people and organizations that posess definite knowledge of such things? A reluctant yes. Do I think it's the Freemasons? A RESOUNDING "NO!".

Do I think that such things are worth investigating? Yes. Do I think the link you provided has credible soures and links? NO. Misquotes, assumptions, paranoia, and a disdain for what is not wholly understood is rife within that site, as well as the sites it links to for support. I just don't buy the connection. Too many holes, not enough to hold it together. I said compelling. Look it up.

Nice try though. Thanks for playing.

Next!

I just wanted to add, in reference to your comment on the welcome signs, that those Masonic signs are usually (probably 9 times out of 10) accompanied by the Rotatry Club's, the Lion's Club's, and the Chamber of Commerce's signs too, yet I don't see you trying to point the finget at them. Pffft. Please.

I'm with Seb; Get over yourself.

[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

Yes, anything. Anything in the Whole Wide World, or more. Get over myself? Really? And what research have you invested into the subject? Its easy for you, who only attack anti secret society threads, who is never seen in other forums of this board to say something like that.

Throw your insults, your opinion is a small one in the big picture. But, so is mine.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Yes, anything. Anything in the Whole Wide World, or more. Get over myself? Really? And what research have you invested into the subject? Its easy for you, who only attack anti secret society threads, who is never seen in other forums of this board to say something like that.

Throw your insults, your opinion is a small one in the big picture. But, so is mine.

They're not insults, they're suggestions. You are the one who throws insults and slander. I don't spend time in other forums here on ATS because I think they are a bunch of hooey. There's no evidence to even give me an interest in any other subjects. And I'm here in this forum mostly to teach, only partially to learn.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
And what research have you invested into the subject? Its easy for you, who only attack anti secret society threads, who is never seen in other forums of this board to say something like that.

I have a hard enough time, given the small amount of time I am able to even be on ATS, dealing with the puke spewed by those who don't have a clue what they are talking about in this section of the forum to be able to spend time in any others. I do have a life, and apparently unlike some, it doesn't revolve around an internet discussion board.

But as I said, I have looked into the phenomenon before, it is of interest to me, I just don't see the connection to Freemasonry. It would be easier for you to make your case if you didn't rely on people who throw everything but the kitchen sink at the Masons, hoping to make a few bucks off the next sucker to buy their books and videos. It's a scam, to prey on the weak of mind. If you can't see that, well then...

Throw your insults, your opinion is a small one in the big picture. But, so is mine.

I don't mean to insult you (most of the time ), but damn, dude. You act like we are some kind of freakin' idiots over here, when you are the one crying about UFO's and white orbs or whatever. You want to talk UFO's, cool, let's do it in another thread, but if you are going to try to say Masonry has anything to do with it, well then you'd better bring your "A" game and leave all your quack website references at home. Do you have some real scholarly research to present (to link the Freemasons, not to the existance of UFO's or orbs or whatever), or to you solely rely on tired conspiracy theory websites?

If you got the goods, well then bring it; otherwise take it somewhere else.

[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Does every meeting hall for the masons have to have its mark on it, publicly?

Why wouldn't/shouldn't it? Doesn't the local Moose Lodge have the Moose emblem on it? Doesn't the meeting place of the Lions/Rotary/Kiwanis Club have THEIR emblem on it? Doesn't the City Hall have a sign that says it's the "City Hall?" Do houses of worship (be they churches, synagogues, etc) have a sign w/ their emblem and name on them? Why shouldn't the Masonic Lodge's meeting place have it's emblem on it? As a non-Mason..quite frankly...what's it to you?

Or how about dam near every town and city have the masonic mark on it. You know, the welcome sign.

Why not, if they have a presence there? Other organizations have signs...why can't Masons? Again, what's it to you?

My theories have not been shot down. In fact, they are gaining steam...

Only in your own mind

And as for my covert agenda, nothing covert about it. I believe What my last, real, president said about the subject, as is pointed out above, and reiterated in my signature.

Now THAT says a LOT. Glad you're honest about it. Thanks.

I have seen the evidence first hand against freemasonry.

If you say so.

But I wouldnt expect you to believe anything that your worshipfull master hasnt taught you.

[YAWN] I guess if you want to think that, it doesn't bother me. I sure wish you could meet the Master (note that he is addressed "Worshipful" but it's not his title...his title is "Master") of my Lodge. Great guy. I think the world of him, but most of us tend to break into a mass sleep when he starts "teaching" (if that's what YOU'D call it)

"tuck tail and run "??? You seem to continually miss my point because you refuse to "Look outside" of the masonic box.

Hey! Leave my Masonic box OUT of this. Oh..wait! What's a Masonic box?

What is rediculious is me waisting my time trying to get you to consider other possiblities.

Now that IS "rediculious" [sic] ...so tell me...why do you continue to do it? Bored? Unemployed?

Freemasonry isnt a frat as eyeofhorus would have you believe. It is a mind control matrix, a system, a platform for chaos and ignorance. And, a block between humanity, and God.

At the risk of sounding redundant, I only know ONE way to respond to THAT brilliant statement.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

(Sorry. It was either that or identify it as the over-load of B*** S*** that it truly is)

Take your binders off and look up! The All Seeing Eye is watching you.

Really? Even when I'm in the shower? Gee!

The evidence is mounting every day.

Yes it is...and you should be ashamed...you shower-spy you!

And every day the world inches closer to the ultimate truth. There is an old saying that goes something like this " A lie will last for a time, but the truth will last forever". The time for the "secret society" is almost up.

That's true! They've only existed for thousands of years. How long have you lasted all seeing shower eye?

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

compelling argument ??? The picture is the argument. Does every meeting hall for the masons have to have its mark on it, publicly? Or how about dam near every town and city have the masonic mark on it. You know, the welcome sign. My theories have not been shot down. In fact, they are gaining steam, but that is not in my hands.

What's up ASE, those masons up to thier same old tricks again. Deny, deny deny, and no proof. As much as I may disagree with the theories of some on this website (including some of yours) I still think it is hillarious that the masons on this site see no reason to post counter evidence. Then they wonder why nobody cares that thier logic works, because they have nothing to support it. I always try to post counter evidence. Nothing is proven therefore EVERYBODY had the burden of proof. So stop skirting the issues.

I have seen the evidence first hand against freemasonry. But I wouldnt expect you to believe anything that your worshipfull master hasnt taught you.

ASE, come on, basically all you have seen is that they are in every town. Would it not be bad logic, to assume that ALL lodges are corrupt, and power hungry. I think that may be taking it too far. Plus, masonry is not focused on NWO, however, influential people in masonry may have global agandas. This only says that people are using masonry as a stepping stone to get into the government, etc. It does not prove that masonry is an inherantly bad organization. All masonic knowledge is published, it is old news. There are mor important conspiracies out there than masonic conspiracies.

"tuck tail and run "??? You seem to continually miss my point because you refuse to "Look outside" of the masonic box. What is rediculious is me waisting my time trying to get you to consider other possiblities.

Never back down ASE, but stay within your limits. I don't care if a people think your ideas are considedrd "crazy" or impossible; I like seeing all opinions, and questions, as well as new and inventive conspiracies. Otherwise it wouldn't be very fun to post on these discussion boards. And all you masons out there... should respect thier right to say this stuff. And if it doesn't interest you as something "important" because it is so obviously wrong, then use your ability to chose not to respond if you want. What diffrence does it make if this person believes that nonsense, it is not like you are going to change thier minds. Changing minds should not be your aim, presenting ideas and discussion is the goal.

Freemasonry isnt a frat as eyeofhorus would have you believe. It is a mind control matrix, a system, a platform for chaos and ignorance. And, a block between humanity, and God. Take your binders off and look up! The All Seeing Eye is watching you. LINK

Uuuuhhh...Ok? It still is a fraternity. And That may be stretching it a little, mind control...probably not. Privately owned, government puppets, now that sounds much nicer rolling off the tongue.





[edit on 3-6-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
And if it doesn't interest you as something "important" because it is so obviously wrong, then use your ability to chose not to respond if you want. What diffrence does it make if this person believes that nonsense, it is not like you are going to change thier minds. Changing minds should not be your aim, presenting ideas and discussion is the goal.

EoH,

Respectfully, what ASE or any of these other cats who post the kind of stuff he does is of little or no interest to me. What does interest me is the people who may come throught here on a whim, or looking for accurate information in an attempt to inform themselves, rather than swallow whatever anti-Masonic sites google might belch up for them.

I was one of those people, coming to this very forum, seeking information. I was met by a handful of Masons even then valiantly defending their Craft agains a seemingly endless attack from people who just do not know what they are talking about. I have been here for a year, I have seen it all. Every topic that comes across this section of the board has been hashed and rehashed and rehashed and rehashed until it's just sickening.

There are some who come here with a true desire to learn, and it is for their benefit that I stick around. I want to help people as the men who were here when I came to this forum helped me. You will always have people who will come here, like Truthisoutthere for example (sorry to name names but he is the current one) who come to this forum and try to use it as a soapbox to preach to people and tell them they are condemned for not believing as they do, and there is no changing their mind. That's fine. They have their right to believe whatever they wish. My concern is when they start telling me I am going to hell or I am condemned simply because I respect the beliefs of others.

Perhaps if, in my replies to these people, some person lurking in this forum starts to think and research for himself into the real aims of the fraternity, and they find out what it's really about, then my time here is not spent in vain. I may never even know. But if my words here can spark that curiosity and let that person see that there is another side to the story than the one the anti-Masons would have you believe, then my work is worthwhile.

I mean, I'm not even a Mason, but I have done enough research into the subject that I feel comfortable speaking on it. If there is something that I don't know, I will say, "I don't know". But rest assured if I don't, there is someone here who does.

You have to understand that these men here who defend Masonry have been doing it for a long time, and what's worse, against the same tired accusations, just from different people. You hang out here long enough you will see it; perhaps you already have, I don't know.

The point is, it's not the people who already have their minds made up I am concerned with.

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
What's up ASE, those masons up to thier same old tricks again. Deny, deny deny, and no proof. As much as I may disagree with the theories of some on this website (including some of yours) I still think it is hillarious that the masons on this site see no reason to post counter evidence. Then they wonder why nobody cares that thier logic works, because they have nothing to support it. I always try to post counter evidence. Nothing is proven therefore EVERYBODY had the burden of proof. So stop skirting the issues.

Now steady on there just a minute boy!! I post plenty of counter evidence, particularly when some fraudulent claim is made about the ritual I have posted actual snippets of the appropriate part to prove the point. The trolls (and ASE who I don't include in that group) just ignore it and move on to the next fabrication.

Rocks and hard places come to mind...

Originally posted by NuTroll
ok ill agree to that. i was simply saying that it was wierd that pike condemned the reference of lucifer to a spirit of darkness, if he was talking about venus.

i had no idea that venus was commonly referred to as darkness or spirit of darkness. but im not versed in masonic text. sorry to offend.

Hold on here.
If Luifer is being described as darkness or spirit if darkness then you have to be freaking blind to think this is not about satan right?
I mean even if later on it becomes clear he is talking about a "venus" does this make "lucifer" right or "venus" wrong?

And yes we look at this in the christian mindframe, simply because if we would not look at this in the christian mindframe we wouldn't be able to have an opinion or view at all, regarding the identity of the deity pike talks about.

To me it's clear pike is indeed talking about satan, in a somewhat cloaked form, but still pretty clear if you look at the "darkness" condemns.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by NuTroll
ok ill agree to that. i was simply saying that it was wierd that pike condemned the reference of lucifer to a spirit of darkness, if he was talking about venus.

i had no idea that venus was commonly referred to as darkness or spirit of darkness. but im not versed in masonic text. sorry to offend.

Hold on here.
If Luifer is being described as darkness or spirit if darkness then you have to be freaking blind to think this is not about satan right?
I mean even if later on it becomes clear he is talking about a "venus" does this make "lucifer" right or "venus" wrong?

And yes we look at this in the christian mindframe, simply because if we would not look at this in the christian mindframe we wouldn't be able to have an opinion or view at all, regarding the identity of the deity pike talks about.

To me it's clear pike is indeed talking about satan, in a somewhat cloaked form, but still pretty clear if you look at the "darkness" condemns.

Your post is not accurate. While I have not read all of Morals and Dogma, I do undnerstand that Pike references, quotes and writes from the perspective of many ancient cultures and religions. Until you read ALL of the book, and the context in which the specific quptes relating to "Lucifer" were written, you can never truly understand what he was referring to.

Really sebat?
What does "darkness" tell you then, looking at this in a christian perspective?
Would that be the good side, or the bad side?
Simplistic as that may sound, that IS what it comes down to.

Originally posted by Jakko
Really sebat?
What does "darkness" tell you then, looking at this in a christian perspective?
Would that be the good side, or the bad side?
Simplistic as that may sound, that IS what it comes down to.

What I'm trying to say is that many people attribute Pike's quotes in Morals and Dogma to be his own beliefs, or the beliefs of Freemasonry. In fact, he is often talking about OTHER culture's beliefs and such. I cannot interpret any of Pike's quoutes for you because I have not read the context under which they were written.

I can tell you that "darkness", in Freemasonry, has always been a reference to a lack of knowledge. Keep in mind that Pike wrote Morals and Dogma FOR Freemasons.

Sorry to be so simplistic about it, but anyone who attributes a definite meaning to any of Pike's quotes is making a big mistake. Pike's intention in writing Morals and Dogma was to encourage the reader to come to his own conclusions regarding the content of the book.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Jakko


To me it's clear pike is indeed talking about satan, in a somewhat cloaked form, but still pretty clear if you look at the "darkness" condemns.

Okaaayyyy....

Even if he was talking about satan, which I'm pretty sure he is not, who cares?

Albert Pike may have been a semi-powerful mason at one time, but this doesn't mean that his text is sanctioned for ritual use among ALL chapters of ALL different kinds of masonry. His text was prepared for the southern jurisdiction of scottish rite FM, that means that the nothern jursidiction, or york rite, or even blue lodge masonry probably will not even acknowledge the text as having any importance.

It is a philosophical text (M&D) that pike wrote, using a compilation of contemporary and ancient philosophy. Most of it isn't even his, he just borrowed it.

Making a decision about wether masonry is good or evil based on Pike or Pike's text is a great injustice to the organiztions of masonry. It would be like trying to predict the weather in china by looking at the meterological data for arkansas.
Pike is not half as popular as the anti-masonic movement wants you to think.

[edit on 3-6-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by Jakko
Really sebat?
What does "darkness" tell you then, looking at this in a christian perspective?
Would that be the good side, or the bad side?
Simplistic as that may sound, that IS what it comes down to.

Before you get your panties in a bunch perhaps you should go read what your quoting. The reference you are speaking of says Lucifer is the Light not darkness. That's what most anti-masons/Christians get their panties into a bunch about because God is light and therfore if Lucifer is the morning light then surely Pike was saying Lucifer is God. There is approximately 15 [not including this one] or so other threads in which this is discussed in great detail. In cases such as this the "search" function is your friend

[edit on 3-6-2005 by mrfixit]

How clear does mr pike have to be?
What other lucifer can he possibly mean?
This is not a translation error, this is his plain words...

If the quotes here:
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...
Are correct, then it's quite obvious that Pike was an untrustable, sneaky satanist that made masonry become to what it is today.

Originally posted by Jakko
If the quotes here:
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...
Are correct,

Which they aren't.

then it's quite obvious that Pike was an untrustable, sneaky satanist that made masonry become to what it is today.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time on you but if you'll take the time to read this, you MIGHT learn something about Pike and about his "Morals & Dogma."


Albert Pike and Lucifer


No other lie has captured the imagination of anti-Masons quite like Léo Taxil's hoax concerning Albert Pike and Lucifer. Dr. Robert A. Morey parts company with most of his fellow anti-Masons on this issue.

Of all the attacks against the Craft, none is so vicious as the charge that Masons are a secret cult of Devil worshipers or Satanists and that at some point in the higher degrees they must pass through a Luciferian initiation.(6)

Once anti-Masons have convinced themselves that Freemasonry is the work of Satan, they are ripe to be tempted by the enticing fruit of the "Luciferian Conspiracy." It comes as a quotation that usually starts, "On July 14, 1889, Albert Pike, Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, addressed to the 23 Supreme Confederated Councils of the world the following instructions. . . ." That is all you need to read to know the author has fallen prey to this infamous hoax.

It's not entirely certain when the Pike quotation was fabricated nor where it was first published. We can, however, trace its modern appearances to Lady Queenborough, Edith Starr Miller, who wrote Occult Theocrasy in 1933. Her work is excerpted and treated as gospel truth, usually without attribution. Such practices are known as plagiarism in other disciplines, but neither serious research nor intellectual integrity stand in the way of the headlong rush to slander Freemasonry.

Lady Queenborough found her quotation in the 1894 book by Abel Clarin de la Rive, La Femme et L'Enfant dans la Franc-Maçonnerie Universelle (Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry). Mr. de la Rive, like Lady Queenborough, was duped by the hoax; they are guilty only of incompetent research and an eager willingness to believe the worst about Freemasonry. The ultimate source was the pornographer, anti-Mason, and anti-Catholic Gabriel Antoine Jogand-Pagès, much better known by his pen name Léo Taxil. Taxil publicly confessed his deception in 1897; his story is widely available for anyone willing to look for the truth.

* * *

SOME OF THE ACCOUNTS OF TAXIL'S HOAX ABOUT FREEMASONRY AND LUCIFER

Allgemeines Handbuch der Freimaurerei 3d ed. 2 vols. (Leipzig: Max Hesse's Verlag, 1901), s.v. "Taxil, Leo."

Henry W. Coil, et al., Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia (Richmond, Va.: Macoy Publishing & Masonic Supply Co., 1961, 1996), s.v. "Taxil, Leo."

Ernst Diestel, "La Diablerie de Léo Taxil," Le Symbolisme, nos. 77 & 78, Sept. & Oct. 1924, pp. 212­223, 245­249.

Michel Gaudart de Soulages and Hubert Lamant, Dictionnaire des Francs-Maçons Français (Paris: Editions Albatros, 1980), s.v. "Taxil."

Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 3rd ed., s.v. "Taxil, Léo."

James Hastings, ed., Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, s.v. "Satanism," by E. Sidney Hartland.

Hildebrand Gerber (H. Gruber, S.J.), Leo Taxil's Palladismus-Roman, 3 vols. (Berlin: Verlag der Germania, 1897), vol. 2, pp. 43­59.

Michel Jarrige, "La Franc-Maçonnerie Démasquée: D'Apres un fonds inedit de la Bibliothèque National," Politica Hermetica, no. 4, 1990, pp. 38­53.

Jean-Pierre Laurant, "Le Dossier Léo Taxil du fonds Jean Baylot de la Bibliothèque National," Politica Hermetica, no. 4, 1990, pp. 55-67.

Eugen Lennhoff and Oskar Posner, Internationales Freimauerlexikon, reprint, 1932 ed. (Munich: Amalthea-Verlag, n.d.), s.v. "Taxil, Leo."

R. Limouzin-Lamothe, The New Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. "Taxil, Leo."

Curtis D. MacDougall, Hoaxes (New York: MacMillan Co., 1949; reprint New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1958), pp. 98­100.

Christopher McIntosh, Eliphas Lévi and the French Occult Revival (New York: Samuel Weiser, Inc., 1974), pp. 210­218.

Alec Mellor, Dictionnaire de la Franc-Maçonnerie et des Franc-Maçons (Paris: Editions Pierre Belfond, 1975), s.v. "Taxil Gabriel-Antoine (Jogand-Pagès dit Léo)," "Anti-Maçonnerie: Le XIXe siècle."

____, "A Hoaxer of Genius--Leo Taxil (1890­7)," Our Separated Brethren, the Freemasons, trans. B. R. Feinson (London: G. G. Harrap & Co., 1961), pp. 149­155.

Robert Morey, The Truth about Masons (Eugene, Oreg.: Harvest House Publishers, 1993), pp. 23­25.

S. Brent Morris, "Albert Pike and Lucifer: The Lie that Will Not Die," The Short Talk Bulletin, Vol. 71, No. 6, June 1993.

Maximilian Rudwin, The Devil in Legend and Literature (Chicago: Open Court Publishing Co., 1931), pp. 167­168.

Rudolf Steiner, The Temple Legend, trans. John M. Wood, London: Rudolf Steiner Press, 1985, pp. 283­284, 408­409.

"Taxil-Schwindel, Der," FreiMaurer: Solange die Welt besteht, catalog of a special exhibition of the History Museum of Vienna, 18 September 1992­10 January 1993, pp. 268­370.

Arthur E. Waite, Devil Worship in France or the Question of Lucifer (London: George Redway, 1896)

Arthur E. Waite, A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, new & rev. ed., (1921; reprint ed. New York: Weathervane Books, 1970), s.v. "Palladian Freemasonry."

Wesley P. Walters, "A Curious Case of Fraud," The Quarterly Journal, vol. 9, no. 4 (Oct.­Dec. 1989), pp. 4, 7. (Also reprinted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Lucifer-God Doctrine [Salt Lake City, Ut.: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1988])

Eugen Weber, Satan Franc-Maçon: La mystification de Léo Taxil (Mesnil-sur-l'Estrée, France: Collection Archives Julliard, 1964).

Gordon Wright, "Diana Vaughan: Satanist and Saint," Notable or Notorious? (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1991), pp. 86­147

Here are just a few of the authors who have reported the bogus Lucifer quotation ascribed to Albert Pike as evidence of the moral depravity of Masonry.

SOME ANTI-MASONIC BOOKS USING TAXIL'S HOAX
ABOUT FREEMASONRY AND LUCIFER

Muhammad Safwat al-Saqqa Amini and Sa'di Abu Habib. Freemasonry (New York: Muslim World League, 1982), p. 41

Anonymous. Freemasonry Antichrist Upon Us. 3rd ed. (Boring, Or.: CPA Books, n.d.), p. 32.

Burns, Cathy. Hidden Secrets of Masonry. (Mt. Carmel,Penn.: Sharing, 1990), p. 27.

Jack T. Chick, The Curse of Baphomet (Chino, Calif.: Chick Publications, 1991), p. [12].

John Daniel, Scarlet and the Beast. 3 vols. (Tyler, Tex.: Jon Kregel, Inc., 1994), Vol. 1, pp. 373, 380.

J. Edward Decker, Jr., The Question of Freemasonry (Issaquah, Wash.: Free the Masons Ministries, n.d.), pp. 12­14.

J. Edward Decker, Jr. and Dave Hunt, The God Makers (Eugene, Oreg.: Harvest House, 1984) p. 130.

Des Griffin, Fourth Reich of the Rich (Clackamas, Or.: Emissary Pub., 1976), p. 70.

Jack Harris, Freemasonry: The Invisible Cult in Our Midst (Towson, Md.: Jack Harris, 1983), pp. 24­25.

James L. Holly, The Southern Baptist Convention and Freemasonry (Beaumont, Tex.: Mission and Ministry to Men, 1992), p. 18.

Gary H. Kah, En Route to Global Occupation (Lafayette, La.: Huntington House Pub., 1992), pp. 114, 124.

Salem Kirban, Satan's Angels Exposed (U.S.A. Salem Kirban, 1980), p. 161.

Texe Marrs, Dark Secrets of the New Age (Westchester, Il.: Crossway Books, 1987), p. 273.

Eustace Mullins, The Curse of Canaan (Staunton, Va.: Revelation Books, 1986).

Pat Robertson, The New World Order (Waco, Tex.: Word Publishing, 1991), p. 184.

William Schnoebelen, Masonry: Beyond the Light (Chino, Calif.: Chick Publications, 1991), pp. 60­61.

Martin Short, Inside the Brotherhood (New York: Dorset Press, 1990), p. 94.

Harmon R. Taylor, "Mixing Oil with Water," The Evangelist, June 1986, pp. 47­49

Some of these authors, like the Reverend Pat Robertson, simply quote Lady Queenborough's translation without attribution. Others, like Dr. James Holly and Martin Short have used the quotation accompanied by equivocations they must think absolve them from responsibility for repeating lies. For example, this is how Dr. Holly tried to cover himself when he quoted Mr. de la Rive.

In the late nineteenth century many antimasonic books were written, purporting to be written by Masons. Some have argued that this is one such book. There is no conclusive evidence either way.(7)

Employing less ambiguous terms than Dr. Holly, Martin Short admitted there were "problems" with the bogus quote, but he too felt no compunction against using it.

There are problems with this quotation: its meaning is not immediately clear and its authenticity is in doubt. It was first attributed to Pike in 1894 by a French authoress who detested Freemasonry, yet no original text seems to exist. Genuine or not, England's Grand Lodge dismisses it by pointing out Pike must have been eighty at the time and "may have been dotty."

Yet the quote sounds authentic. Its pyrotechnic language and bombastic poesy recalls Pike's earlier writings, and the message is not so different from that of Morals and Dogma. If genuine, it indicates there is a Satanic--or Luciferian--strain in American Masonry....(8)

The public confession of Taxil and the subsequent recantation by Mr. de la Rive do not seem conclusive enough for Dr. Holly, Mr. Short and their ilk.

Mr. Jack Chick showed some clever originality in his use of the bogus Albert Pike "quote" in the 1991 edition of his comic book, The Curse of Baphomet. Rather than plagiarizing Lady Queenborough, as have so many of his allies, he used a fictitious reference to a legitimate publication: "'The Freemason' (the organ of English Freemasonry), 19th January, 1935"!(9) Although he has removed the fictitious reference from current editions, the bogus quote remains.

Mr. C. Fred Kleinknecht, Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, U.S.A., wrote to Rev. Pat Robertson on May 12, 1992. The Albert Pike "quotation" in Robertson's The New World Order was exposed as a fraud. Rev. Robertson was invited to read any of Albert Pike's writings at the House of the Temple. Mr. Kleinknecht suggested that Rev. Robertson would better serve his readers if he removed the false quotation from any future editions of his book. In his closing paragraph, Mr. Kleinknecht said to Rev. Robertson, "If we must disagree let us base our disagreement upon truth."(10) As of November 1, 1993, Rev. Robertson has not answered Mr. Kleinknecht.

Before commenting on the hoax, the complete quotation from Mr. de la Rive, a modern translation, and its partial translation by Lady Queenborough are presented in parallel columns for easy comparison.


Léo Taxil's False Luciferian Quotation of Albert Pike:
[translated by Eric Serejski]

The fourteenth day of the fifth month of the 889th year of True Light (consequently July 14, 1889, of the vulgar era) Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Inspector General, 33rd and last degree; Most Puissant Sovereign Commander Grand Master of the Supreme Council of Charleston, Premier Supreme Council of the Globe; Grand Master Preserver of the sacred Palladium; As Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, in the thirty-first year of his Pontificate, he addressed to the 23 Confederated Supreme Councils of the entire world these diabolic instructions from which we extract only the passages related to Woman:
"To the science of Faust, the True Mason will join the impassiveness of Job. He will trample down superstition in his heart. He will be without indecision and without whims, he will accept pleasure only when he wants it and will want it only when he must."

"WE MOST EARNESTLY RECOMMEND INCREASING THE LODGES OF ADOPTION. THEY ARE INDISPENSABLE FOR MAKING MASONS MASTERS OF THEMSELVES. The priest tries to subdue his flesh by forcing himself to be celibate.... The true Mason, on the contrary, reaches perfection, which is to say control over himself, by using his zeal in Lodges of Adoption, submitting himself to natural tests. COMMERCE WITH A WOMAN BELONGING TO ALL HIS BROTHERS FORMS AN ARMOR AGAINST PASSIONS THAT LEAD THE HEART ASTRAY. He alone can really possess the voluptuousness of love, who vanquishes, by frequent usage, the love of voluptuousness. To be able, at will, to use and to abstain, is a two-fold power. Woman enslaves you by her desires, we say to the adept; so use women often and without passion; you will thus become master of your desires, and you will enslave women. From this it results that the true Mason will easily resolve the problem of the flesh."

"Evidently it is not absolutely necessary that the man whom you will lead to the highest grades has to be immediately perfect and has to understand our secret from his entry into Masonry. What we ask of you is first to observe him with the utmost care during his Apprenticeship, and afterwards, in the Lodge of Adoption, where he will enter when he will become a Fellow Craft, to make him, YOUR CRITERION, YOUR INSTRUMENT OF INFALLIBLE CONTROL."

"The Lodge of the Brethren which does not annex a Lodge of Sisters is an incomplete Lodge inevitability destined to never produce anything but Masons for whom politics will be the main concern, who will mostly be engaged with intrigue and competition, who will move about in emptiness, who will walk three steps forward then three steps backward, in one word, whose work will be unsatisfactory and whose politics will be incoherent."

"What we must say to the crowd is:--We worship a God, but it is the God that one worships without superstition."

"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say, so that you can repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: --The Masonic religion must be, by all of us initiates of the high grades, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN doctrine."

"If Lucifer were not God, Adonai (the God of the Christians) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, his barbarism and repulsion of science, if Lucifer were not God, would Adonai and his priests slander him?"

"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately so is Adonai. For the eternal law is that there is no splendor without shadow, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, because the absolute can only exist as two, because darkness is necessary to light to serve as its compliment, as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, as the brake to the locomotive.

"In analogical and universal dynamics, one can only lean on that which resists. Thus the universe is balanced by two forces which maintain its equilibrium: the force that attracts and the one that repels. These two forces exist in physics, in philosophy and in religion. And the scientific reality of the divine dualism is proved by the phenomena of polarity and by the universal law of affinities and antipathies. This is why the intelligent disciples of Zoroaster, as well as, after them, the Gnostics, the Manicheans, and the Templars have admitted as the sole logical and metaphysical conception the system of the two divine principles fighting one another in all eternity, and one cannot believe one inferior to the other in power.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, equal to Adonai, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is fighting for humanity against Adonai God of Darkness and God of Evil...."

In another part of his Instructions, Albert Pike also said:

It is with the greatest care that it is necessary to choose adepts. In many orients, they are taken too much at random, which explains the delay in reaching the goal."

"Only make a Master of the Fellow Craft who knows himself. On the exterior of the ancient temples built to the God of Light, one read this two-word inscription: 'Know thyself.' We give the same advise to each man who wants to approach the science."

"Never initiate to the third degree the man who, in spite of the learning received at the two preceding degrees, remains enslaved to the prejudices of the profane world. He will never approach before he reforms. At the Fellow Craft degree open to him the doors of the Lodges of Adoption; there you will well judge him. You will see if his prejudices fall. If he remains enslaved of his passions, IF HE EXCLUSIVELY BINDS HIMSELF TO A WOMAN, do not worry about him anymore, you are losing your time. He cannot be an adept; because the word "adept I despises who one deeds, his by and will arrived signifies>prejudices and who triumphs over his passions."*

*It was the Sister Diana Vaughan that Albert Pike, --in order to give her the greatest mark of confidence, --charged to carry his luciferian encyclical, to Paris, during the Universal Exposition.
Lady Queensborough,
Edith Starr Miller.
Occult Theocrasy. 2 vols. 1933. Reprint. Hawthorne, Calif: The Christian Book Club of America. 1980.

p. 233

As regards the position of women in Masonry, we think that this cannot be better explained than in the words of Albert Pike himself. In La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc- Maçonnerie Universelle page 578 [sic], A. C. De La Rive states that on July 14, 1889, Albert Pike, Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, addressed to the 23 Supreme Confederated Councils of the world the following instructions, which we quote herewith in part.

"To the science of Faust, the real Mason will join the impassibility of Job. He will eradicate superstition from his heart and cultivate decisions of character. He will accept pleasure only when he wishes it and will wish it only when he should do so.

"We earnestly recommend the creation of Lodges of Adoption. They are indispensable to the formation of Masons who are indeed Masters of themselves. The priest tries to subdue his flesh by enforced celibacy.... The real Mason, on the contrary, reaches perfection, that is to say achieves self mastery, by using his zeal in the Lodges of Adoption in submitting to all natural ordeals. Commerce with women, belonging to all brethren, forms for him an armor against those passions which lead hearts astray. He alone can really possess voluptuousness. To be able, at will, to use or to abstain, is a twofold power. Woman fetters thee by thy desires, we say to the adept, well, use women often and without passion; thou wilt thus become master of thy desires, and thou wilt enchain woman. From which it must perforce result that the real Mason will succeed in easily solving the problem of the flesh.

"It is evidently not absolutely necessary that the man whom you are leading towards the high grades be immediately perfect and have understood our secret on his entrance into Masonry. That which we ask you is first to observe him with the greatest care during his apprenticeship and afterwards, when he enters the Lodge of Adoption as Companion to use that as your criterion, your instrument of infallible control.

"The Lodge of Brothers which has failed to annex a Lodge of Sisters is incomplete and destined inevitably never to produce anything but Brethren, with whom politics are the chief concern, men who will be chiefly preoccupied with intrigue and rivalry, who will do bad work and whose politics will be incoherent."

pp. 220-221

The theological dogma of Albert Pike is explained in the "Instructions" issued by him, on July 14, 1889, to the 23 Supreme Councils of the world and have been recorded by A. C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maçonnerie Universelle (page 588) from which book we translate the quote as follows:

That which we must say to the crowd is:--We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition.

To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees-The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine.

"If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (the God of the Christians) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy, and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?


"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

"In analogical and universal dynamics one can only lean on that which will resist. Thus the universe is balanced by two forces which maintain its equilibrium: the force of attraction and that of repulsion. These two forces exist in physics, philosophy and religion. And the scientific reality of the divine dualism is demonstrated by the phenomena of polarity and by the universal law of sympathies and antipathies. That is why the intelligent disciples of Zoroaster, as well as, after them, the Gnostics, the Manicheans and the Templars have admitted, as the only logical metaphysical conception, the system of the two divine principles fighting eternally, and one cannot believe the one inferior in power to the other.

"Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."

"One must not lose sight of the fact that Pike occupied simultaneously the positions of Grand Master of the Central Directory of Washington, that of Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Charleston and that of Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry.

There are several problems with this quotation, some obvious and some subtle. To start with, about 1 million out of 2½ million American Masons have the 32° in the Scottish Rite, including ministers, rabbis, bishops, and other devout worshipers of God. It is inconceivable that there would not be mass resignations and protests if these men were taught this disgusting "Luciferian doctrine." Is it believable that the millions of Scottish Rite Masons during the last two centuries could be cowed into such total silence? Dr. Robert Morey, an opponent of Masonry, put it well, "Since most Masons in the United States are members of Christian churches and many clergymen belong to the Fraternity, the idea that they are all involved in some kind of devil cult is absurd."(11)

Also, the quotation is riddled with logical inconsistencies. There is not now and never has been a position of "Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry." This office is Taxil's invention and alone demonstrates the letter is a forgery. There is no "Confederation of Supreme Councils." Neither Albert Pike, the Mother Supreme Council, nor any grand lodges ever recognized any lodges of adoption (Masonic lodges open to men and women). In the United States virtually every Scottish Rite Mason progresses to the 32°. Why would Albert Pike suggest special treatment for 30°, 31°, and 32° Masons, when that would have included nearly everyone?

The real evidence of a hoax comes in de la Rive's footnote, which neither Lady Queenborough nor anyone else has ever bothered quoting. The footnote refers to Diana Vaughan, the matchless creation of Léo Taxil's twisted mind, who, despite her illustrious pedigree created by Taxil, never existed.

*Ce fut la Sur Diana Vaughan qu'Albert Pike,--afin de lui donner la plus grande marque de confiance,--chargea d'apporter son encyclique luciférienne, à Paris, pendant l'Exposition Universelle.

*It was the Sister Diana Vaughan that Albert Pike,--in order to give her the greatest mark of confidence,--charged to carry his luciferian encyclical, to Paris, during the Universal Exposition.

The hoax is well known and has been explained time and time again for nearly a century. The New Catholic Encyclopedia says this about Léo Taxil.

Taxil purported to reveal the existence of "Palladium," the most secret Masonic order, which practiced devilworship. He recounted the story of its high priestess Diana Vaughan; and ended by publishing the Mémoires d'une ex-Palladiste after her conversion to Catholicism. When doubts began to spread, Taxil realized the time had come to end the deceit. In a conference in Paris (April 19, 1897), he cynically admitted his hoax, whose aim, he said, was to hold up Catholicism to derision.(12)

After Taxil's public confession, A. C. de la Rive expressed his disgust and recanted his writings on Diana Vaughan in the April 1897 issue of Freemasonry Unmasked, a magazine devoted to the destruction of the Craft. As much as he hated Freemasonry, de la Rive had the integrity to admit Taxil's hoax.

With frightening cynicism the miserable person we shall not name here [Taxil] declared before an assembly especially convened for him that for twelve years he had prepared and carried out to the end the most extraordinary and most sacrilegious of hoaxes. We have always been careful to publish special articles concerning Palladism and Diana Vaughan. We are now giving in this issue a complete list of these articles, which can now be considered as not having existed.(13)

Figure 5. Cover of Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry, the most frequently quoted source of the "Luciferian Doctrine" falsely attributed to Albert Pike. Most of the quotes, however, have been plagiarized from Edith Starr Miller's Occult Theocracy.

* * *

Morals and Dogma

Few Masonic books have created as many controversies as Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma. It is a collection of thirty-two essays that represent Pike's interpretation of the lessons of the Scottish Rite degrees. The essays are largely concerned with the history of philosophy and with man's constant search for God. First published in 1871, the book was given to every 32° Mason in the Southern Jurisdiction for about a century; hundreds of thousands of copies have been distributed. It is now out of print, though widely available in used book stores.(14)

Morals and Dogma is not available only from a "secret publishing house,"(15) it is not "the Bible of the Masons,"(16) nor is it "the most readily available and universally approved doctrinal book of Freemasonry."(17) It is not even widely distributed or read. It is used only by the Supreme Council 33°, Southern Jurisdiction, which in 1871 had far less than 5% of American Masons as members and in 1993 claims only 20%.

The preface gives the best understanding of how Pike and all succeeding Supreme Councils have viewed his book.

The teachings of these Readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those of other domains of Thought and Truth. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite uses the word "Dogma" in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term. Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgement. Of course, the ancient theosophic and philosophic speculations are not embodied as part of the doctrines of the Rite; but because it is of interest and profit to know what the Ancient Intellect thought upon these subjects, and because nothing so conclusively proves the radical difference between our human and the animal nature, as the capacity of the human mind to entertain such speculations in regard to itself and the Deity.(18)

This is not the way to introduce the ultimate authority on any subject. Anti-Masons choose to ignore the clear intent of the book and to distort Pike's personal opinions into the absolute truth for all Masons.

One of the most frequently quoted passages by anti-Masons from Morals and Dogma concerns Pike's theory that symbolic lodges exist to hide the true secrets of Masonry from the masses.

The Blue Degrees [1º-3º] are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. . . . It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees. . . . (19)

Anti-Masons would have us believe this passage is a public admission of the deceptions imposed on most Masons by the "leaders" of the Craft. Common sense is again thrown out the window. Why would such a damaging "secret" doctrine be printed in a widely available book? With hundreds of thousands of copies distributed, shouldn't some blue lodge Masons have caught on by now? Anyone, like Pike, is free to think he knows the true interpretation of Masonic symbolism, but it will remain his personal opinion. Only grand lodges have the authority to interpret the symbolism of the blue lodge, and they are not inclined to yield to any other power.

Pike was simply repeating one of the currently popular theories about the origins of the "high degrees." Just because Albert Pike was a brilliant ritualist, an able administrator, and a well-respected Mason doesn't mean all of his opinions are right. The Masonic encyclopedist, Henry Wilson Coil, offers a good summary of the influences on Albert Pike's Masonic writings.

Fate decided that Pike should enter the Scottish Rite only four years after he became a Mason and before he had time or occasion thoroughly to study the history of all branches of the Society and, so, he began his study from the upper levels without knowing much of the foundation. He evidently did not know until his later life that the Scottish Rite degrees were a part of that type of ritual which sprang up in France in 1737 and subsequent years but regarded it as Primitive Masonry which had come right on down from Greece, Asia Minor, and Egypt and out of the Ancient Mysteries and Magism, which there held sway. He found books which said so and he never had any doubt about that theory. He regarded Craft Masonry as then known to be puerile, though he said it had a deeper meaning which was hidden from its superficial adepts, who were taught to be satisfied with trite explanations. He even asserted that Craft Masonry had been devised so as not only to hide its true meaning but to cause its members to think that they understood it. [Albert G.] Mackey encouraged him in those notions, for he, too, had been made a Mason only four years before he began writing books on the subject, in which he adopted the more sensational theories of mystery and symbolism. But Mackey changed his views as soon as the work of the British realistic school began to be felt. Pike did not waver; his work was nearly complete and too voluminous to be done over. (20)

* * *


FOOTNOTES

1. Robert A. Morey, The Truth About Masons, (Eugene Oreg.: Harvest House Publishers, 1993), p. 21.

2. Robert A. Morey, p. 22.

3. "Freemasonry on Its Own Terms," The John Ankerberg Show, DM-170, 1986.

4. James L. Holly, The Southern Baptist Convention and Freemasonry, Vol. II (Beaumont, Tex.: Mission and Ministry to Men, 1992), pp. 46-51.

5. Robert A. Morey, p. 21.

6. Robert A. Morey, p. 23.

7. James L. Holly, The Southern Baptist Convention and Freemasonry (Beaumont, Tex.: Mission and Ministry to Men, 1992), p. 19.

8. Martin Short, Inside the Brotherhood (New York: Dorset, 1989), pp. 94-95.

9. Jack T. Chick, The Curse of Baphomet, Chino, Calif: Chick Publications, 1991, p. [10]. The general level of Mr. Chick's writing can be inferred by these comments on what he has written about Roman Catholicism. "[O]n the whole we feel that Chick Publications does more harm than they do good. Because of its lack of scholarship and, more importantly, Christian sympathy we can only conclude that Chick Publications promotes what can be called 'Comic-book theology,' something Christians ought to definitely avoid." (Hendrik H. Hanegraaff, "Chick Publications and Roman Catholicism," CRI Perspective, CP-0809 [San Juan Capistrano: Christian Research Institute, n.d.]).

10. C. Fred Kleinknecht, Washington, to Pat Robertson, Virginia Beach, Va., May 12, 1992, Typescript, Copy in the Archives of the Supreme Council 33º, S.J., Washington.

11. Robert Morey, p. 23.

12. R. Limouzin-Lamothe, New Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. "Taxil, Leo." Even with Taxil's exposure of the twin hoaxes of Diana Vaughan and the Palladium, entrepreneurs still try to sell this stale story to the gullible. "I was brought into Palladium Lodge (Resurrection, #13) in Chicago in the late 1970's and received the degree of 'Paladin' in that Lodge in 1981. . . ." (William Schnoebelen, Masonry: Beyond the Light, [Chino, Calif.: Chick Publications, 1991], p. 194.) It is interesting to note that Mr. Schnoebelen has combined two distinct and unrelated ideas in his tale, though both use similar sounding words. Palladium refers to a small statue of Pallas Athena which was thought to protect the city of Troy. Paladin is a type of European knight descended from Charlemagne's Counts Palatine.

13. Quoted in Alec Mellor, Strange Masonic Stories (Richmond, Va.: Macoy Publishing & Masonic Supply Co., Inc., 1982), p. 151.

14. While there are no plans to reprint Morals and Dogma, The Supreme Council 33º, S.J., has recently published two books to help readers better understand Pike's often dense prose: Rex R. Hutchens and Donald W. Monson, The Bible in Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" (Washington: The Supreme Council 33º, 1992) and Rex R. Hutchens, A Glossary to "Morals and Dogma" (Washington: The Supreme Council 33º, 1993). The Supreme Council 33º, S.J., sells used copies of Morals and Dogma when they can be obtained.

15. Ron Carlson, Freemasonry and the Masonic Lodge, preached by the author, audio cassette (Eden Prairie, Minn.: Christian Ministries International, n.d.), side 2, 34:18. N.B. The times listed are measured from the beginning of the audio and may vary slightly depending on the equipment used.

16. Ron Carlson, side 1, 4:41.

17. J. Edward Decker, Jr., The Question of Freemasonry (Issaquah, Wash.: Free the Masons Ministries, n.d.), p. 3.

18. Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, rev. ed. (Washington: Supreme Council 33°, S.J., 1950), p. iv, emphasis added.

19. Albert Pike, p. 819.

20. Coil, s.v. "Pike, Albert."

Originally posted by Jakko
How clear does mr pike have to be?
What other lucifer can he possibly mean?
This is not a translation error, this is his plain words...

It is NOT HIS plain words! Morals and Dogma is a study of ancient beliefs! Pike describes and quotes other belief systems throughout the whole book! Half the book wasn't even written by HIM, but was the work of many other people throughout time!!!

[edit on 4-6-2005 by sebatwerk]