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Bush says US more secure

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posted on May, 30 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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As i have tried to put forth so many times here at ATS - Bushky's a salesman to the People but reports to the secret government..

Dallas




posted on May, 30 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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Why is this happenning? - Why has everyones opinions of America had a change in direction...



Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The world hasn't changed its views. They've always felt negatively towards America. It started after WW2, and has carried on till this day. It comes out now because there is no longer any counter to America in this world, and no one for Europe to fear but us.


The rest of the world begun to look negatively upon the United States because of the change in foreign policy the United States adopted after it eliminated its closest financial rival; Nazi Germany...

So your argument is that the rest of the world hates America - because there is no-one left to fear? - If that isn't the most backwards argument I have ever heard! - Maybe its because the US has gone to almost every length to remain the top-dog...

Its a shame that, thats all slowly coming to an end...



The more wars the government goes into, the more terrorism will be created, the more terrorism created - the more wars we can justify - thus its a perpetual cycle that only the corporations (who are making money with this war) will benefit from...



Well, the people of Iraq are getting freedom regardless of how much money we make.

It's all good to make money, but it does little good when you can't survive. I highly doubt these coorporations view the short term, which is all your little theories provide for.


How is being locked up in their house, afraid of being killed - Free?
How is having their vehicles torn to peices, in the name of safety - Free?
How is having a foreign force have its tanks roll down your streets everyday - Free?
How is having a new constitution, with hardly any differences from Saddams - Free?

Yeah thats right, the new Iraqi constition hasn't really changed - about the only difference is that they can now vote... They aren't aloud to form trade unions - just like Saddam wouldn't - and whys that? - Because if workers actually have some form of democratic organising body, the corporations who own the means of production, wouldn't be able to pay the workers squat, wouldn't be able to fire workers with no reason, wouldn't be able to do all the evil things billionaires do in their spare time...

As for my theories of Corporations and short term advantages - I think you have missed the point, the corporations making money from the actual war, will be the same companies who will be making money off the Oil... And the war in Iraq is ALL ABOUT THE LONG TERM... The US knew that if they didn't get Iraqs Oil, that Saddam would have got richer, and China would of got stronger...

Its all about the long term... Uses some foresight and you'll see...



Its sooo obvious to see why the rest of the world looks upon America with hatred - as thats exactly what the US has been doing since it was created, hatred against Native Americans, hatred against African Americans, hatred against the Vietnamese people, hatred against the Central American people, and now hatred against the Arab world...



Unlike nations such as those in Europe, right...? France has actively supported two genocides in the past decade or so.


And this makes it OKAY for America to do so WHY!?!? - Your argument is stupid, thats like saying Hitler killed millions of people, so its okay for me to kill hundreds of thousands... Its still people dying, your argument is like... A serial killer killed 10 people, and another serial killer killed only 3 people, so the second serial killer is let free - because he killed less than another psycho-path...

See the similarities?



Now imagine if, the Venezuelan people had arrested Osama Bin Laden, and wouldn't hand him over to the US... What do you think your government would do?



Maybe if the two nations asking weren't Venezuela and Cuba, we'd talk...


Ah, I see your lack of ability to form an intelligent response, forces you to make a onesided and hipcritical remark of your own - You might be able to run for President one day...

Again, thats like saying; if I killed, your whole family and pissed on their tombstones - you dont deserve justice... Infact, your response could even be seen as racist... Justice is Justice, you just demonstrated my exact point... One set of rules for the US, and another for the little guy...

Its just like who white billionaires can get away with anything, while African American people are sent to gaol (jail) by the truck-load...

[sarcasm] Ah, America - the land of the free...[/sarcasm]



The rest of the world can see that the US has one set of rules for itself, and another for all the other countries that aren't as big - and they have been demonstrating that they dont like it (like these protests prove) - its a shame that the vast majority of the American people cant see their governments hipocracy - its either that, or they dont care...



We're hypocrites? Tough. So is everyone else. That's how the world works. You can pretend all you want that it matters that the rest of the world doesn't like us, but it doesn't. If America wants something, we're going to have it in the end, and no other nation on this planet would do differently, and no other people would do differently then the American people.


Its a pity the very foundations that are holding up your country, are slowly decaying and are eventually going to give way - that is that; all the little countries will one day unite, and nationalise all the resource you have taken control of - and then what you will be left with...

A shoe 10 sizes too big for your foot...



Think about it... Heres a tip that might make it a little easier; get the FoxNews channel blocked and do some independant research into some of the things the US has done, and realise 9/11 was a pic-nic compartively...



Little America has done has compared to 9/11, at least anything you can prove we've done.


You didn't just say that did you? - How could anyone say something that dumb...

What about the 3 to 4 million Vietnamese people that died in the Vietnam War - at the hands of the US, and their offical policy of "terminate with extreme predjudice"

What about the hundreds of thousand of people that died in Nagasaki and Hiroshima by nuclear weapons!?!!, all at the hands of the US government...

And I would bet you all the money in the world, that more than 3000 inocent people have died in Iraq so far - Alot more... So you see, what your'e trying to say is that the 3000 people that died on September the 11th, has justified the killing of more than 100,000 Iraqis? - Remembering that a huge portion of those were inocent bi-standers... When the US people are attacked its called Terrorism... And when people die at the hands of the US its called - Collatoral Damage...



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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So your argument is that the rest of the world hates America - because there is no-one left to fear? - If that isn't the most backwards argument I have ever heard! - Maybe its because the US has gone to almost every length to remain the top-dog...


Unlike just about every nation in Europe who goes to the same lengths America does to hold their measely positions in the world, right?


Its a shame that, thats all slowly coming to an end...


At the very best for you whiny socialists, America would still have about 40 years on top of the world.


How is being locked up in their house, afraid of being killed - Free?


Locked up? If they were locked up, I don't think anyone would be dying to these suicide bombers. Go take a look at where most attacks take place. Saying all of Iraq is in a state of chaos is just nonsense. Most of the attacks take place in the bigger cities to begin with. It's not that great in number. We have more car crashes in America in a day by a great deal then there are attacks in a single month.


How is having their vehicles torn to peices, in the name of safety - Free?


I'm not even sure what you mean here.


How is having a foreign force have its tanks roll down your streets everyday - Free?


I highly doubt the American forces patrol with tanks.

And once again, I suppose Germany and Japan weren't made free after WW2, since we had troops there, and still do.


How is having a new constitution, with hardly any differences from Saddams - Free?


Hardly any difference? Women can vote, they can go to school and hold any profession a man can. All of the religions in the nation now have say in how things are run. They have true elections. They can no longer torture people. They have free speech, as demonstrated by the huge number of newspapers and radio stations and TV shows that have been set up to express Iraq viewpoints. Not to mention the protests they've put together against the American forces.

I'd say these are all pretty huge differences.


As for my theories of Corporations and short term advantages - I think you have missed the point, the corporations making money from the actual war, will be the same companies who will be making money off the Oil... And the war in Iraq is ALL ABOUT THE LONG TERM... The US knew that if they didn't get Iraqs Oil, that Saddam would have got richer, and China would of got stronger...


If America wanted to stop China from getting oil, we would have invaded Iran, the ones who actually had/have oil contracts with China.


And this makes it OKAY for America to do so WHY!?!? - Your argument is stupid, thats like saying Hitler killed millions of people, so its okay for me to kill hundreds of thousands... Its still people dying, your argument is like... A serial killer killed 10 people, and another serial killer killed only 3 people, so the second serial killer is let free - because he killed less than another psycho-path...


What America does in the world fails in comparison to what other nations do. America does not have to sink as low as nations like France do.

Yet, I never hear a single word from people like you talking about what France does, or what any nation besides America does. America gets blaimed for everyone of the world's problems. It's really pretty amazing.


Again, thats like saying; if I killed, your whole family and pissed on their tombstones - you dont deserve justice... Infact, your response could even be seen as racist... Justice is Justice, you just demonstrated my exact point... One set of rules for the US, and another for the little guy...


It's not different rules for anyone. There is one simple rule in this world everyone follows, and the others are all meaningless. Those who are stronger take what they want.

It's how the world has worked, and will always work.


Its just like who white billionaires can get away with anything, while African American people are sent to gaol (jail) by the truck-load...


People with money get off because their smarter and have the resources behind them. Plus, they tend to do things a bit more complex and harder to uncover. Plus, blacks are sent to jail because they happen to make up the poor in this country, and if you look at any nation throughout history, the poor have always been the ones who committed the majority of the crime.


Its a pity the very foundations that are holding up your country, are slowly decaying and are eventually going to give way - that is that; all the little countries will one day unite, and nationalise all the resource you have taken control of - and then what you will be left with...


Socialism doesn't work. I shouldn't even have to say this. You can take a look at any nation that has adopted your ideals, and they've all folded.

And hate to tell you, but America with its capitalist system can survive on its own. More then that, it can survive and build up the greatest military, which means it can take whatever the hell it wants.

Cuba and Venezuela exist as nations simply because America allows them to.


What about the 3 to 4 million Vietnamese people that died in the Vietnam War - at the hands of the US, and their offical policy of "terminate with extreme predjudice"


America, believe it or not, was not the aggressor in that war. Our forces never invaded anyone, and were playing defense the whole time. Those people died because of North Vietnam's government, not America.


What about the hundreds of thousand of people that died in Nagasaki and Hiroshima by nuclear weapons!?!!, all at the hands of the US government...


Major problems here. First, who started the war? What other option did America have but to fight back?

Second, dropping the nukes prevented us from having to destroy all of Japan. Had we not used the nukes, and the Japanese not surrendered, America would have had to invade Japan, in which case the Japanese citizens were prepared to resist completely. Estimated casualties among Japanese civillians were in the millions.

Which is better, the two bombs, or the invasion?

This doesn't even take into account how many would have died after the war after it was divided up like Korea or Germany by the Soviet Union.


And I would bet you all the money in the world, that more than 3000 inocent people have died in Iraq so far - Alot more... So you see, what your'e trying to say is that the 3000 people that died on September the 11th, has justified the killing of more than 100,000 Iraqis? - Remembering that a huge portion of those were inocent bi-standers... When the US people are attacked its called Terrorism... And when people die at the hands of the US its called - Collatoral Damage...


There have been no 100,000 Iraqi deaths in this war. That was a biased estimate. If you want a real estimate, which is fair and comprehensive, check out the Iraqi Body Count. The numbers are a fraction of that nonsense, and these are actually confirmed deaths caused by coahilition forces, not a survey of deaths in places like Fallujah which have happened to occur during the US occupation...

Plus, Iraqis benefit from this war in the end by getting a free government that doesn't massacre hundreds of thousands of them.

There was no way to get rid of Saddam without thousands of Iraqis loosing their lives.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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What in the world has Bush been smoking (or snorting)?


Hmph...I wouldn't think we were secure until ALL our freedoms went bye-bye!


And what dgtempe said---with our borders wide open, how, pray tell, can he call this country secure? I say we seal the borders and declare a moratorium on immigration with the exception of extreme cases, and kick all the illegals out!

What's even more mind-boggling is how people can believe this pack of lies!



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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Actually as much as you Bush haters want to think we are more threatened, you are wrong.

I would think that finally the 'Islamic Radicalism' is n the defensive.

Are we 100% safe? Nope, but I bet you it would be a hell of a lot harder to pull of a 911 size attack now......a LOT HARDER.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:07 PM
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The 911 attack was already pulled off and served the purpose for the backdrop on terror very well.

Nah, thats over and done with. I feel snuggly and safe now. Our administration stays up nights thinking of ways to protect us.




posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Actually as much as you Bush haters want to think we are more threatened, you are wrong.

I would think that finally the 'Islamic Radicalism' is n the defensive.

Are we 100% safe? Nope, but I bet you it would be a hell of a lot harder to pull of a 911 size attack now......a LOT HARDER.


When you consider the possibility that Muslims were FRAMED on 9/11, that argument gets pretty well shot down.

I find it laughable that Bush says we were attacked because they "hate our freedoms." And what's the remedy for this? Take away our freedoms via Patriot Act.

Now what is wrong with that picture?

BTW I am a conservative, just not a neocon.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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When you consider the possibility that Muslims were FRAMED on 9/11, that argument gets pretty well shot down.


Except that's a rather senseless conspiracy theory that holds little weight.


I find it laughable that Bush says we were attacked because they "hate our freedoms." And what's the remedy for this? Take away our freedoms via Patriot Act.


Nothing Bush has done is any worse then what other presidents have done during war time. It's pretty mild, really. Lincoln shut down newspapers that wrote something he didn't like. Roosevelt locked up the Japanese.

And the remedy has been to bring freedom to the region.


And what dgtempe said---with our borders wide open, how, pray tell, can he call this country secure? I say we seal the borders and declare a moratorium on immigration with the exception of extreme cases, and kick all the illegals out!


Wow...You talk about crushing freedom, and this is your solution?



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by AmethystWhen you consider the possibility that Muslims were FRAMED on 9/11, that argument gets pretty well shot down.



So you think that Bush and Co. really did plan and execute 911? You obviously have no clue how the government works, they couldn't pull that off even if they tried. No it was an attack by radical Islam on the financial, military, and government centers of the Great Satan as they call it. Plain and simple no boogie man, just the obvious.


Originally posted by AmethystI find it laughable that Bush says we were attacked because they "hate our freedoms." And what's the remedy for this? Take away our freedoms via Patriot Act.


Its not our freedoms that they hate, its our wealth and our strength. Which by the way is a blessing from God. If the God of Islam was so strong and powerful and loving, why has the Arab world lived a century behind the west? Why? No, its a plain attack on the West by Islam for what they feel is rightfully theirs and was stolen from them by a guy named Issac.

Not that all Muslims feel that way, the argument could be made that most Muslims living in the West have it pretty good compared to the homeland.

Your freedoms have not been taken away no matter what anyone tells you, the amount of freedoms that you had have been adjusted to allow some defense in a country that is as open as ours and therefore a target.

If people were strapping bombs on themselves and blowing up Wal-Marts you would be complaining that the Government has done nothing. It is a lot harder to get in the United States unless you come across the border with Mexico. On that we need to close that hole and soon. Mr. Bush has completely dropped the ball on that one.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:19 PM
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If Bush would get serious about the border more ppl might actually buy that he's trying to make America a safer place from Terrorists.

Is it going to attack another terrorist attack committed by terrorists who crossed the border illegaly for someone to do something about it?

Vote Djohnsto77 For ATSNN! A Brighter Future Today!

[edit on 30-5-2005 by drfunk]



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by drfunkIs it going to attack another terrorist attack committed by terrorists who crossed the border illegaly for someone to do something about it?


God I sure hope not, but I can't figure out what the hold up is for damn sure.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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So Ed, why the hold up in Washington about the borders?

Can you offer any ideas or excuses as to why this is so? You think maybe Bush is too busy lately and hasnt gotten around to securing our borders to ensure some safety for the citizens of the USA?



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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Well I am not sure but I think and its only opinion that the economy is the reason. I live in California in a agricultural area and these illegals are very common. They even buy homes here, 99% come to make a better life and take the jobs that no one wants. I do not know where you are at, but the economy would collapse if no one did the jobs that the teens even wont do for 6.75 an hour. Thats right, that is the MINIMUM wage here and it is no more a living wage than in Indiana were its still $5.75 and hour. In actually the 5.75 will have more purchasing power than the 6.75 does.

Things are nuts here, they come in and work so I can not fault them, but they tie up the government services to the breaking point.

Ol Arnold will not do anything either as its political suicide for him to. Illegals are wanted by the majority of the populace here, plain and simple.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
Unlike just about every nation in Europe who goes to the same lengths America does to hold their measely positions in the world, right?


Again, you fail to see the point, why does this justify America to do the same evils that Europe and the rest of the first world does? – The fundamental difference between Europe and Americas slant on it is; that America is doing it all in the name of ‘Freedom and Democracy’. – Your mother mustn’t have done a very good job when it came to the day she was supposed to say: ‘Two wrong don’t make a right…”



Its a shame that, thats all slowly coming to an end...



At the very best for you whiny socialists, America would still have about 40 years on top of the world.


You wish! – All it would take for America to collapse is for Venezuela to all of a sudden nationalise all its Oil, and switch trade over to China… In case you were one of those Americans who seem to think that petrol comes out of a bowser, heres a fact: Venezuela produces more than 15% of the United States oil… Now imagine what would happen if suddenly that 15% wasn’t there…

The only reason America is so damn powerful – is because it has manipulated and taken advantage of the third-world – They, along with the rest of the Westernised first-world are the reason why the third-world is in ruins… And if you think that America could survive (and keep its current sphere of dominance, and way of life) without its offshore ‘assets’ you are sadly mistaken…



How is being locked up in their house, afraid of being killed - Free?



Locked up? If they were locked up, I don't think anyone would be dying to these suicide bombers. Go take a look at where most attacks take place. Saying all of Iraq is in a state of chaos is just nonsense. Most of the attacks take place in the bigger cities to begin with. It's not that great in number. We have more car crashes in America in a day by a great deal then there are attacks in a single month.


How many people do you think are scared to leave their own houses? (just to rephrase) – And I think it would be ignorant to say that Iraq is in anything but a state of chaos… A government that hardly functions, Coalition troops strolling the streets, suicide bombers on the attack just about everyday… etc etc… What else justifies a state of chaos?



How is having their vehicles torn to pieces, in the name of safety - Free?



I'm not even sure what you mean here.


The compulsory road-blocks, that anyone who is rich enough to drive a car has to endure… While ever this is going on the Iraqi people are not ‘free’ – While ever the US is there the Iraqi people are not ‘free’ – While ever there are suicide bombers on the loose the Iraqi people are not ‘free’… And while ever the US is the sole profiteer of the Iraqi oil – the Iraqi people will not be ‘free’…



How is having a new constitution, with hardly any differences from Saddams - Free?




Hardly any difference? Women can vote, they can go to school and hold any profession a man can. All of the religions in the nation now have say in how things are run. They have true elections. They can no longer torture people. They have free speech, as demonstrated by the huge number of newspapers and radio stations and TV shows that have been set up to express Iraq viewpoints. Not to mention the protests they've put together against the American forces.

I'd say these are all pretty huge differences.


Women could hold any profession they wanted in Iraq before the US invasion, Saddam had women working in the government… You are merely trying to demonise what Iraq was before the invasion, by using a stereotypical Muslim ideal to prove to me the brain-washing power of the US media-machine…

People are still being tortured – only now its not Saddam, its US and British soldiers stripping down Iraqi POW’s and putting them in uncomfortable sexual situations with each other, taking pictures of that, and then spreading around the world…

Oh the media, you mean all the newspapers, TV programs and Radio shows who were set up by the Iraqi elite who share the interests with US corporations, who are in reality out to make money – not express what the Iraqi people are feeling… Now they are operating in the name of MONEY instead of SADDAM – That is not freedom…

And the protests PROVE that the Iraqi people DON’T want the US led Coalition forces in their now… The 300,000 people who protested that day – were the brave few, who thought it would actually make a difference… It’s a shame that the US media-machine announced the numbers at 14,000 in and outside of Iraq – Clearly bending the facts – yeah this is freedom… And so they weren’t shot by Saddams men, that’s great! – But does that mean they are anymore free than when Saddam was in power…

TELL ME THIS: does voting once every 4 years define what freedom and democracy are? – Or is all this a facade of the corporate elite who rule the show…



If America wanted to stop China from getting oil, we would have invaded Iran, the ones who actually had/have oil contracts with China.


You’ll be eating your own faeces in approximately 6 months when the US actually does invade Iran… You don’t think it was all part of a grand scheme to invade Iraq first, and spread the words freedom and democracy around – then say that Iran needs the same treatment… please




And this makes it OKAY for America to do so WHY!?!? - Your argument is stupid, that’s like saying Hitler killed millions of people, so its okay for me to kill hundreds of thousands... Its still people dying, your argument is like... A serial killer killed 10 people, and another serial killer killed only 3 people, so the second serial killer is let free - because he killed less than another psycho-path...



What America does in the world fails in comparison to what other nations do. America does not have to sink as low as nations like France do.

Yet, I never hear a single word from people like you talking about what France does, or what any nation besides America does. America gets blaimed for everyone of the world's problems. It's really pretty amazing.


France isn’t the focus of this thread – if someone started a post saying how France is a bad country, I would contribute in that – But the focus of this thread being America, I think I am completely justified in pointing out the evils America has done…

Speaking of evils ‘and sinking to a low’ – Have you ever heard of the Iran/Contra affair?

Anyways, YoU mIsSeD tHe F-iNG PoInT, A FiVe YeAr oLd UnDerStaNdS ThiS bEtTeR ThAn YoU!!! – TWO WRONGS DON’T MAKE A RIGHT!!! – Why is that so hard to understand?



Again, that’s like saying; if I killed, your whole family and pissed on their tombstones - you don’t deserve justice... In fact, your response could even be seen as racist... Justice is Justice, you just demonstrated my exact point... One set of rules for the US, and another for the little guy...



It's not different rules for anyone. There is one simple rule in this world everyone follows, and the others are all meaningless. Those who are stronger take what they want.

It's how the world has worked, and will always work.


How old are you? Like 14? – And argument like this is ridiculous… Humans are by nature social animals who depend, rely and work with each other… In fact, if you look at the majority of human history (pre-history) it has always been that the strongest member of the tribe protected his fellow man – because even apes seem to recognise that hurting fellow ape is like cutting off your own arm…

It’s the media and the corporate giants who would have you believe that competing against one-another is the normal way to do things… School isn’t about learning, its about getting a higher mark on your test than your friend… Work isn’t about contributing to society, its about cheating your fellow man out of a promotion, so that you can have a little more money… The health-care system isn’t about making sure everyone can live their life comfortably, its about the rich getting richer, while the poor die because they couldn’t afford the medicine…

Tell me, is all that coded in to Human DNA, or is it all merely a fabrication of what the system wants us to be… Tell me, would you rather be a mindless consumer, or a contributor to the society around you?



Its just like who white billionaires can get away with anything, while African American people are sent to gaol (jail) by the truck-load...



People with money get off because their smarter and have the resources behind them. Plus, they tend to do things a bit more complex and harder to uncover. Plus, blacks are sent to jail because they happen to make up the poor in this country, and if you look at any nation throughout history, the poor have always been the ones who committed the majority of the crime.


[align=center] Why are the black people poor, and why are the poor (forced into) committing crime? – Better yet, WHY IS THERE POOR PEOPLE AT ALL?[/align]

So you think that all rich people are smart? – So you think that a guy who inherits his fathers multi-billion dollar empire, is smarter than a professor of Theoretical Physics at a top-notch university… Using your logic, you must be one of the poorest people in the world to believe that kind of falacy… The richest are just the people with the least morals and the most money, the poorest are often the people with the most morals and the least money…



What about the 3 to 4 million Vietnamese people that died in the Vietnam War - at the hands of the US, and their official policy of "terminate with extreme prejudice"



America, believe it or not, was not the aggressor in that war. Our forces never invaded anyone, and were playing defense the whole time. Those people died because of North Vietnam's government, not America.


Yeah, you continue telling yourself that as you fall asleep at night trying to comfort yourself… The US went over to Vietnam, in an attempt to stop the spread of Socialism, which was actually making peoples lives better in North Vietnam, all the rich people who didn’t like that – moved their forces to the South in an attempt to take power… And I think you would find that the majority of the people who died in Vietnam were at the hands of the US…

Considering they dropped more bombs than all the bombs dropped by both sides in World War 2, levelled hundreds of small villages with Napalm, and all the rest of the people who died with 5.56 bullets to the brain…

Ask yourself this, if the US was right in going to Vietnam, WHY did they end up losing the war and having to retreat, WHY was their so much protest against it, WHY did the US troops eventually refuse to go on missions, WHY did the US even go there in the first place?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The US is the biggest terrorist nation this planet has to offer, if one cannot see that I feel deeply sorry for you… Your government is using your Tax dollars to sell and produce death, if you don’t become actively aware and active in stopping your corrupt government there may not be a tomorrow for you and your children… Realise and recognise we’re living in our last times, and it is up to us, as the worlds people, to make the best of this world… And there is no reason why any of us, should not reach out and help their fellow citizens… Power in numbers, they are the few, we are the many, take the power back…

Voting once every four years IS NOT DEMOCRACY… Actively participating in the decisions that take place IS DEMOCRACY and realise this is not possible under a corrupt capitalist system…



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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Dont even get me started
If we're safer then why is the TSA operating shortstaffed barely scraping together enough people to man a shift?
If we're safer then why does Wyoming get more antiterror funding per capita then New York?
If we're safer the why is our emergency responce system so flawed that the president doesnt even get notified that theres a potential threat to his safety until the situation has resolved itself?
If we're safer then why is our border patrol understaffed?
If we're safer then why are we dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into a pointless thirdworld country when we can barely keep our own national security services fully funded?

By the way if our economy is doing good then why do I see more people asking for money on the trains then I've ever seen in my entire life? Why is it that the moment the mariachi guys leave my train car a woman playing a kazoo comes in followed by a man with a violin followed by a woman singing with a guitar? Thats just the musically enclined we're not even counting the straight up beggars offering nothing in exchange but a sob story. Yeah the corporations are doing fine but the people are suffering.

All you people who voted for Bush are going to get exactly what you deserve. Unfortunately the rest of us are along for the ride.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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LINK: They wont let me show it otherwise

...
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[edit on 31-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Well I am not sure but I think and its only opinion that the economy is the reason. I live in California in a agricultural area and these illegals are very common. They even buy homes here, 99% come to make a better life and take the jobs that no one wants. I do not know where you are at, but the economy would collapse if no one did the jobs that the teens even wont do for 6.75 an hour. Thats right, that is the MINIMUM wage here and it is no more a living wage than in Indiana were its still $5.75 and hour. In actually the 5.75 will have more purchasing power than the 6.75 does.

Things are nuts here, they come in and work so I can not fault them, but they tie up the government services to the breaking point.

Ol Arnold will not do anything either as its political suicide for him to. Illegals are wanted by the majority of the populace here, plain and simple.


So explain to me why 800,000 Californians get out of that state YEARLY! Here's a quote from a Frosty Wooldridge article:

The Mexicanization of America, races, with total support from George Bush and his Congress, full speed across our country. La Raza, the most racist organization in the world, licks its chops as sheer numbers of illegal aliens have taken over Los Angeles. They’ve run Americans out of countless cities and communities. They’ve trashed school systems and bankrupted 86 hospitals. They’ve thrown trash throughout the park systems. They defy laws by not carrying car insurance, driver’s licenses, work off the books paying no taxes, brutalize our schools with their language, spread drugs, and more terrifying are the thousands of cases of TB and hepatitis they spread into Los Angeles. In other words, they’re bringing their Third World into our world.

Illegals do not help our economy at all. What are these jobs that Americans won't do? If you have a family to support, you're going to take what comes along! More people in the workforce drives wages down. Fewer people, it goes up. Simple supply and demand. Our jobs are being outsourced right and left, and the illegals want to take what's left? I don't think so!


I am very thankful that my husband has a good-paying job and I'm able to stay home with our son!



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Amethyst
Illegals do not help our economy at all.
[...]
I am very thankful that my husband has a good-paying job and I'm able to stay home with our son!


For both our sakes, lets hope you you do a better job of raising your son, than your parents did for you... With parents like you its no wonder the majority of Americans are racist (or atleast) ignorant! Its parents like you that have caused your country to become the sess-pool it is...

Lets all ask ourselves WHY all those illegal imigrants are coming into America (and other first world countries) in the first place... Oh but wait, that questions to hard (
)... America is the reason (Mexico for example) is in ruins? - Could it be that the US has control over all of Mexicos valuable resources - and because of this, Mexico has very little income, thus they cannot develop the infrastructure (eg office buildings, mines etc) needed to change their situation... So instead of starving to death at the hands of US imperialism - they choose to take their chances in the rumoured to be 'land of freedom'...

Little do these people know, that the 'freedom' (see my avatar) the US spreads, is what has put them in this procarious situation to begin with... So dont shoot the messenger... Ask yourself, why is the thirdworld poor...

Is it because they are all stupid? - Look at Venezuela for example, they nationalised some oil facilities (which the US had control of before) and now they can give the venezuelan people free (and compolsory) education, free (and universal) health care. etc etc etc

If all the Imperialist powers in the world, gave the third world a chance - you'd soon see why people are poor... Think about it - and learn some of your own countries history, before you start poluting young childrens minds with your noxious disease of ignorance...



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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Again, you fail to see the point, why does this justify America to do the same evils that Europe and the rest of the first world does? – The fundamental difference between Europe and Americas slant on it is; that America is doing it all in the name of ‘Freedom and Democracy’. – Your mother mustn’t have done a very good job when it came to the day she was supposed to say: ‘Two wrong don’t make a right…”


You prove my point. You aren't even willing to admit the Europeans are just as wrong, America has to be worse for some reason.

Europe has no reason for what they do but their greed. They don't have to even try and make one up because people like you are too busy bitching about everything America does, doesn't do, or might even be thinking of doing.


You wish! – All it would take for America to collapse is for Venezuela to all of a sudden nationalise all its Oil, and switch trade over to China… In case you were one of those Americans who seem to think that petrol comes out of a bowser, heres a fact: Venezuela produces more than 15% of the United States oil… Now imagine what would happen if suddenly that 15% wasn’t there…


America would invade Venezuela, and the problem would be solved.


The only reason America is so damn powerful – is because it has manipulated and taken advantage of the third-world – They, along with the rest of the Westernised first-world are the reason why the third-world is in ruins… And if you think that America could survive (and keep its current sphere of dominance, and way of life) without its offshore ‘assets’ you are sadly mistaken…


The problem is, we're not about to loose our "offshore assets." If someone threatens our interests, we have the military and economic strength to destroy them. At this time, this is true of any individual nation.


How many people do you think are scared to leave their own houses? (just to rephrase) – And I think it would be ignorant to say that Iraq is in anything but a state of chaos… A government that hardly functions, Coalition troops strolling the streets, suicide bombers on the attack just about everyday… etc etc… What else justifies a state of chaos?


A state of chaos is all out war. A few suicide bombers in the big cities of Iraq does not make a nation in chaos. Coahilition troops are actually starting to move away from the cities. The government is function very well for how young it is.


The compulsory road-blocks, that anyone who is rich enough to drive a car has to endure… While ever this is going on the Iraqi people are not ‘free’ – While ever the US is there the Iraqi people are not ‘free’ – While ever there are suicide bombers on the loose the Iraqi people are not ‘free’… And while ever the US is the sole profiteer of the Iraqi oil – the Iraqi people will not be ‘free’…


The road blocks are near government buildings and other such locations. The same things are present everywhere.


Women could hold any profession they wanted in Iraq before the US invasion, Saddam had women working in the government… You are merely trying to demonise what Iraq was before the invasion, by using a stereotypical Muslim ideal to prove to me the brain-washing power of the US media-machine…


Not for about the past decade or more they couldn't.


People are still being tortured – only now its not Saddam, its US and British soldiers stripping down Iraqi POW’s and putting them in uncomfortable sexual situations with each other, taking pictures of that, and then spreading around the world…


What you just named was about as extreme as the American "torture" got. That's the sad thing. It's not even close to being comparable to what Saddam did. Have you seen any picture or video of what Saddam did to his people? They took real beatings, they were shocked, they were mutitlated, they were thrown off buildings, they were hung by their limbs for days, burned etc.

That is real torture, and it was Iraqi policy. You, nor anyone else, can prove torture is America's policy. The scandels have been of isolated incidents in which the offenders were punished. Groups like the Red Cross have been in Guantanamo Bay since it opened up and been able to moniter it. The media has been let in. They've found no real evidence of torture.


Oh the media, you mean all the newspapers, TV programs and Radio shows who were set up by the Iraqi elite who share the interests with US corporations, who are in reality out to make money – not express what the Iraqi people are feeling… Now they are operating in the name of MONEY instead of SADDAM – That is not freedom…


People like Al Sadr have their own newspapers in Iraq. There have been a few hundred newspapers set up since the fall of Saddam, compared to just the handfull that existed before.

Not to mention the Iraqis have put together quite a few protests, many of which have been against the Coahilition.


And the protests PROVE that the Iraqi people DON’T want the US led Coalition forces in their now… The 300,000 people who protested that day – were the brave few, who thought it would actually make a difference… It’s a shame that the US media-machine announced the numbers at 14,000 in and outside of Iraq – Clearly bending the facts – yeah this is freedom… And so they weren’t shot by Saddams men, that’s great! – But does that mean they are anymore free than when Saddam was in power…


Yes, our media is lying, but I'm sure you have a real reliable source for that 300,000 figure...

And yes, the fact that these people could protest their government without being shot shows they are free. What else are you looking for? What else constitutes freedom?


TELL ME THIS: does voting once every 4 years define what freedom and democracy are? – Or is all this a facade of the corporate elite who rule the show…


Americans don't vote once every four years. There are number of local elections, senate elections etc. There will be another national election in 2006.

And the Iraqis will have another election at the end of this year.


You’ll be eating your own faeces in approximately 6 months when the US actually does invade Iran… You don’t think it was all part of a grand scheme to invade Iraq first, and spread the words freedom and democracy around – then say that Iran needs the same treatment… please


Until we actually invade Iran, you really can't bitch at America for it. I think a nation has to actually do something before you can complain.

Of course, I'm using logic. That seems to be a foreign concept around here.


Speaking of evils ‘and sinking to a low’ – Have you ever heard of the Iran/Contra affair?


The Iran-Contra affair is more justified then people will ever realize. If we didn't support Iran, we might possibly have had Saddam take Iran. He was bound to attack Kuwait. He would have been able to attack Saudi Arabia. Basically, he would have been in a position to control the world's oil. We gave Iran weapons to balance power in the region.


How old are you? Like 14? – And argument like this is ridiculous… Humans are by nature social animals who depend, rely and work with each other… In fact, if you look at the majority of human history (pre-history) it has always been that the strongest member of the tribe protected his fellow man – because even apes seem to recognise that hurting fellow ape is like cutting off your own arm…


Complete bull. I suppose all of those human sacrafices are ancesters were fond of are what you mean, right? Looking out for the weak alright...How about the way women were treated? How about the fact that in pretty much every tribal setting, the leader is the male who is the physically the strongest? How about the fact that he often takes that role from another?


It’s the media and the corporate giants who would have you believe that competing against one-another is the normal way to do things… School isn’t about learning, its about getting a higher mark on your test than your friend… Work isn’t about contributing to society, its about cheating your fellow man out of a promotion, so that you can have a little more money… The health-care system isn’t about making sure everyone can live their life comfortably, its about the rich getting richer, while the poor die because they couldn’t afford the medicine…


Yet our "competetive" system in America has given us the highest standard of living in the world, and made us the strongest nation ever in existance. What a failure capitalism is!

That's opposed to every socialist nation, which has struggled then died.

Here's a simple fact. For everything you have in your life, someone else looses out. If you eat something, someone else can no longer eat it. If you have a job, someone else can not have that job.

It is human nature to compete, and the fact that America has flourished with this system only proves that.


Why are the black people poor, and why are the poor (forced into) committing crime? – Better yet, WHY IS THERE POOR PEOPLE AT ALL?



There are poor people in every society that has ever existed. You know why? Because there will always be people who screw up and fail, and they tend to reproduce.


Yeah, you continue telling yourself that as you fall asleep at night trying to comfort yourself… The US went over to Vietnam, in an attempt to stop the spread of Socialism, which was actually making peoples lives better in North Vietnam, all the rich people who didn’t like that – moved their forces to the South in an attempt to take power… And I think you would find that the majority of the people who died in Vietnam were at the hands of the US…


Right, making their lives better...

Go take a look at Vietnam and tell me things ended up for the better. Take a look at the millions that fled Vietnam when the North took over. How about we go back some, and take a look at the death squads the North would send into the South to whipe out anyone who opposed them.


Ask yourself this, if the US was right in going to Vietnam, WHY did they end up losing the war and having to retreat, WHY was their so much protest against it, WHY did the US troops eventually refuse to go on missions, WHY did the US even go there in the first place?


None of that has to do with morality, just the success of the mission. I know this may come as a shock to you, but the side that is right doesn't always win, and the side that is wrong doesn't always lose. This isn't a movie.

America lost the war because we never invaded the North. We fought a defensive war, and as Napoleon said, you can never win that way.

As for the protests, most of the nation was against the Revolution. Most of the nation was against the Civil War. Most of the nation was against WW2.

You know what? The majority tend to be wrong when it comes to when to fight and when not to.


By the way if our economy is doing good then why do I see more people asking for money on the trains then I've ever seen in my entire life? Why is it that the moment the mariachi guys leave my train car a woman playing a kazoo comes in followed by a man with a violin followed by a woman singing with a guitar? Thats just the musically enclined we're not even counting the straight up beggars offering nothing in exchange but a sob story. Yeah the corporations are doing fine but the people are suffering.


Right. Suddenly everyone is going broke and homeless. And you've provided so much evidence to show it. Well, how's this. I've never seen so few beggars and homeless in all my life. I've never seen so many people owning homes in their lives, as they have set a record high.


Lets all ask ourselves WHY all those illegal imigrants are coming into America (and other first world countries) in the first place... Oh but wait, that questions to hard ( )... America is the reason (Mexico for example) is in ruins? - Could it be that the US has control over all of Mexicos valuable resources - and because of this, Mexico has very little income, thus they cannot develop the infrastructure (eg office buildings, mines etc) needed to change their situation... So instead of starving to death at the hands of US imperialism - they choose to take their chances in the rumoured to be 'land of freedom'...


Or maybe, just maybe, it's the fact that Mexico has a corrupt and incompetent government, and instead of improving the situation, the people flea to America.


Little do these people know, that the 'freedom' (see my avatar) the US spreads, is what has put them in this procarious situation to begin with... So dont shoot the messenger... Ask yourself, why is the thirdworld poor...


The thirdworld is poor because they've been unable to adapt. Nations have climbed out of poverty. America and Europe didn't start off rich. It took centuries to get that way.


Is it because they are all stupid? - Look at Venezuela for example, they nationalised some oil facilities (which the US had control of before) and now they can give the venezuelan people free (and compolsory) education, free (and universal) health care.


We'll see how long it is until they end up like Cuba, a poor hellhole with a corrupt government.



posted on May, 31 2005 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier


Originally posted by Amethyst
Illegals do not help our economy at all.
[...]
I am very thankful that my husband has a good-paying job and I'm able to stay home with our son!


For both our sakes, lets hope you you do a better job of raising your son, than your parents did for you... With parents like you its no wonder the majority of Americans are racist (or atleast) ignorant! Its parents like you that have caused your country to become the sess-pool it is...



Please think before falsely labelling someone as racist. I'd feel the same way if people were sneaking over here from Canada or Australia! Thing is, we just happen to share a border with Mexico.

Doesn't matter what race you are. You want to live here--DO IT LEGALLY!!!

I also think it's a huge insult that immigrants not only are too lazy to learn English (our OFFICIAL language--at least it should be!), but we're expected to learn THEIR language! As an American try that in, say, France, and see what kind of response you get! (Hint--they don't like it.)

Multiculturalism is going to be the death of America, mark my words. Diversity and inclusion--gimme a break!

I also find it hilarious to be called racist when I'm not even 100% white! (I'm part Cherokee.)

Do you find something wrong with American sovereignty? You must!



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