Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by the_oleneo
...based on FACTS.

YOU, Sebatwerk, don't know what I knew and understood from various media and private sources that I've learned and studied out there (the Internet, library, documentary, etc). If you don't like that, that's your problem. You're in denial and blinded to the obvious, I'm not.

What FACTS have you based your allegations on? My facts are clear: there has NEVER been any conclusive evidence brought forth to support the existence of the Illuminati. What are your FACTS?

Do not accuse me of being blind for not seeing things your way. I am just looking at this situation from a different perspective. I am only blind to anything that is not EVIDENCE or FACT

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Too dark for me. It is Satanic you know this eh?

Where do you get your information? You better find a new source, because that's the biggest pile of crap in the world. I have been a Freemason for a long time, and have NEVER seen anything REMOTELY satanic. Better do some research for yourself.

I don't even know why I'm dignifying this with an answer...

alot of facts imply that the Illuminati exist, but I guess it's true that I cannot know for sure unless I witness it with my own eyes or someone i find credible does so. however, i'm sure i'm correct in assuming that the skull & bones are a branch of the Illuminati and I'm sure there's plenty of proof to support their existence. i'm sure we've all seen the clip (i think it's on meet the press or something) where the interviewer asks Bush about his connection with Skull & Bones and he simply says that it's a secret and does not refuse it. Kerry does the same thing.
I tend to believe that if something as far fetched as the Skull & Bones exists, then I'll go ahead and believe the whole story which states that they are a branch of the Illuminati. That's more than enough proof for me. If you require more, I doubt you will ever find any conspiracies that you're able to prove. Meanwhile, I'm moving past the idea of the Illuminati existing and on to the idea of figuring out what we can do (if anything) to combat this oppressive force.

[edit on 13-7-2005 by koryosborn]

Originally posted by koryosborn
however, i'm sure i'm correct in assuming that the skull & bones are a branch of the Illuminati and I'm sure there's plenty of proof to support their existence.

Uuuuuhh... Skull and Bones DOES exist, it is a very real college fraternity. They are registered with the school and as a not-for-profit organization. It's a secretive organization, members won't speak about it, but it is very real and verifiably so. BUT there has never been any evidence to show it is anything more than a debate society.

I tend to believe that if something as far fetched as the Skull & Bones exists, then I'll go ahead and believe the whole story which states that they are a branch of the Illuminati. That's more than enough proof for me.

That is absolutely ignorant! Besides the fact that you have obviously not done ANY research whatsoever (a simple Google search would show you that Skull and Bones has openly existed since its inception), you now claim that a college fraternity's existence is PROOF of the Illuminati's existence?!? That is not the kind of investigative ignorance that we aspire to here now, is it?

Alright, that's enough of this tripe. Let's cool the temp. in this thread. NOW.

Originally posted by amIreal
IT’S NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE EXISTANCE OF THE ILLUMINATI!!! Rather, how to join it…whether it exists or not is really irrelevant right now…

Actually it is very relevant. How can one join an organization that does not exist?

Originally posted by amIreal
How bout you try this…look deep inside that tiny little skeptic brain of yours .... you need to stop being such and ignorant prick about everything

Personal insults make YOU look like the one with the tiny brain.

Originally posted by amIreal
THE ILLUMINATI DID EXIST!!!!!!

Everyone knows that; it is very well documented and not much of a secret at all. Who claimed that the Illuminati did not exist in the past?

Originally posted by amIreal
(and don’t come back yelling at me that they don’t exist now….I don’t know or really care….my point is that they DID at one point exist)

Whether or not they exist now is actually very relevant to the topic.

Originally posted by amIreal
I always liked the idea of the path of illumination in Roam .... The only path that I’ve ever heard of is in Roam, Italy….but wouldn’t it be cool if there was one in North America?

Do you mean ROME?!

ok I apologize for getting a little emotional...

and yes it was said earlier in THIS thread that the Illuminati does not exist

and the fact that I said the Illuminati doesn't exist is not relevant was directed only to sebatweck b/c of his doubting aditude towards the whole issue...


and comeon....I made ONE spelling mestake in the whole post...yes I obviously ment ROME....but when your typing fast you tend to miss somethings...I tried my best to edit out everything that was wrong or misspelled but I guess I missed one...


and just so you all know....I'm not angry at anyone or anything...I just felt that I was time to get somethings within this thread straightened out....again if I seriously offended anyone I apologize

Originally posted by amIreal
SEBATWERK….SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not gonna happen.

IT’S NOT HERE TO DEBATE THE EXISTANCE OF THE ILLUMINATI!!! Rather, how to join it…whether it exists or not is really irrelevant right now…

Actually, it would be a little hard to join an organization that doesn't exist, wouldn't it? So, yes, it is relevant.

WE DON’T CARE ANYMORE!!!!

You should care that you are chasing a ghost. The issue isn't what I believe, it's the fact that you guys believe something, without the slightest bit of evidence, based purely on imagination.

So what it really comes down to is that you need to stop being such and ignorant prick about everything…

Interesting. I'm a prick because you don't agree with me.

By The Way, something you might find interesting….THE ILLUMINATI DID EXIST!!!!!! (and don’t come back yelling at me that they don’t exist now….I don’t know or really care….my point is that they DID at one point exist)

If you would read some of my posts, and not just the recent ones, you'd have ween where I've stated many times that the Illuminati that I am speaking of is NOT the Bavarian Illuminati, who was around no more than a decade and wasn't even a secret society, but rather a shadowy secret government organization that controls world affairs from the shadows. So who's the one that hasn't done their research?

TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THESE SITES BEFORE RESPONDING…OTHERWISE YOUR REMARKS WILL SIMPLY BE WRONG

It's interesting to note than you can predict that my remarks will be wrong, even before I make them. You should have your own TV show.

Happy reading sebatwerk…you wanted proof…now you have it….and I have much more where that came from…so if you want to stay and discuss the ways of joining the illuminati by all means, lets hear your ideas…

You actually haven't provided much at all. The Bavarian Illuminati or the Spanish Alumbrados (from which the Bavarian Illuminati grew) have been dead for hundreds of years, so how could someone join?!? You are obviously, and foolishly, talking about two separate organizations and trying to make me look ignorant by assuming I don't know the difference.

Where are these all encompassing documents that you posses that state unequivocally that the Illuminati don’t exist??? I would love to see them.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Documents proving that something DOESN'T exist?!? Do you even know what EVIDENCE is?!?

The proof is in the LACK of evidence. Proof of burden rests on the accuser, the one making the claims. If they cannot prove their case, it stands to reason that the accusation is false. That's basic LOGIC for you.

I always liked the idea of the path of illumination in Roam…

It's spelled "Rome".

P.S. I eagerly await your irrational responce to this post sebatwerk...I can only imagine what lengths you will go to to try and tear apart my post....by all means go for it...it doesn't really matter....I've made my point...and I wouldn't be surprised if most if not all the others reading this thread agree with me

Agree with you that an organization called the Illuminati did exist? Sure, we all do. But I doubt anyone agrees that you have brought anything productive to the thread, just a whiny rant from a user who thinks I'd be too dumb to know the difference between two organizations with the same name... or perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know the difference?

again if I seriously offended anyone I apologize

Is this an apology directed at me? Because your insults indeed were.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

its funny how you just keep saying that it doesn't exist and you're totally ignoring the fact that it does exist. things just don't make sense to you right now because you're not understanding the whole picture. you have to first come to the realization that the illuminati exists. i don't know how you're ever going to do that, but it's up to you to do it. when you do that, a huge piece of the puzzle becomes clear and more of the whole picture presents itself. if you cannot ever come to this realization or it is that you're too brainwashed at this point to open your mind to ideas that are this outside the box, it will be unfortunate for you. best of luck to you.

Originally posted by koryosborn
its funny how you just keep saying that it doesn't exist and you're totally ignoring the fact that it does exist. .

See there's the problem.

You're stating something as a fact - but giving no evidence at all to back it up, you know?

Where's your proof?

Originally posted by koryosborn
you have to first come to the realization that the illuminati exists. i don't know how you're ever going to do that, but it's up to you to do it. when you do that, a huge piece of the puzzle becomes clear and more of the whole picture presents itself. if you cannot ever come to this realization or it is that you're too brainwashed at this point to open your mind to ideas that are this outside the box, it will be unfortunate for you. best of luck to you.

Actually it makes perfect sense to me, and I see how obvious it is that all this is just a giant fairy tale staright from the imagination of "conspiracy theorists". All the pieces of the puzzle are perfectly connected for me because I'm a very realistic and logical thinker. It's easy for you to say I'm brainwashed, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Is this what you say to everyone who disagrees with your assumptions?

Again, you are stating the existence of the Illuminati as being fact, but provide no proof to demonstrate this.

what is it that you guys are needing as proof? what exactly are you calling the illuminati. i think of the umbrella which all of these other group such as bohemian grove, skull and bones and the bildebergs all operate under. i also consider the freemasons and the illuminati to be synonymous. at some point they assumed this new identity. are you saying that there is no higher power that these smaller groups operate under? i'm just trying to figure out how you can make the connection w/o the existence of the illuminati.

It depends also on the definition of Illuminati, some people say its the people who have the most power in the world like the world bank. Yes they are powerful but you do not have to signpost them as illuminati either.

I know they existed once by name, some believe they still do or they are part of the 13 illuminati bloodlines as such. I have read loads but do not remember everything at the moment. Some say the first ones were the crusades, some say its a organisation since the ancient past to oppress knowledge and some say they are satanic bloodlines and some say Reptile bloodlines like the Ike theory. People relate certain signitures with these organisations like logos and events that add up to certain numbers that relate to these organisations like the Washington layout for example.

Illuminati does not have to exist as a threat, its the things we are only starting to scatch the surface on like area 51 and odd decision making by the government that sometimes fits perfectly for their convienience like princess Diana's death, was'nt that just perfect for the royals, it got her out of the way for sure. Was it not perfect for G W Bush to go to war with Iraq as his father did, Cinton did not nor Reagan did.

So its not like conspiracies are stupid either, its about asking questions and scatching the surfice.

Every investigation is a conspiracy untill proven.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by The time lord]

Originally posted by koryosborn
what is it that you guys are needing as proof? what exactly are you calling the illuminati. i think of the umbrella which all of these other group such as bohemian grove, skull and bones and the bildebergs all operate under. i also consider the freemasons and the illuminati to be synonymous. at some point they assumed this new identity. are you saying that there is no higher power that these smaller groups operate under? i'm just trying to figure out how you can make the connection w/o the existence of the illuminati.

The Illuminati is, from what I gather, a secret organization that somehow manages to control world affairs from the shadows. All these other orgs which you mentioned are completely autonomous and operate uinder nobody else. Can you show me evidence otherwise? If you could demonstrate that there is some kind of unknown organization under which skull&bones, BG, etc, operate under THEN maybe we would have something to talk about. But all the evidence points to separate orgs. You can't even show proof that BG or s&b are anything more than a college frat and a weekend retreat!

And about Freemasonry and Illuminati being the same thing, that is absolutely absurd! Freemasonry doesn't involve itself in ANYTHING that is not Freemasonry. No politics, no religions, NOTHING. So what are you exactly talking about?!?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Too dark for me. It is Satanic you know this eh?

Where do you get your information? You better find a new source, because that's the biggest pile of crap in the world. I have been a Freemason for a long time, and have NEVER seen anything REMOTELY satanic. Better do some research for yourself.

I don't even know why I'm dignifying this with an answer...

I did not say that! You've copied my ID and pasted onto a statement that I've never made! Retract it please!

Originally posted by JustMe74
Everyone knows that; it is very well documented and not much of a secret at all. Who claimed that the Illuminati did not exist in the past?

Sebatwerk. He's a part of the Illuminati. It's undeniably that he's nothing more than a disinfo agent of the Illuminati seeking to discredit people from seeking the truths and facts about the existence of the Illuminati. He's quite very good at discrediting people from seeking the truth.

Or maybe he's just putting up an act.

[edit on 7/14/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I did not say that! You've copied my ID and pasted onto a statement that I've never made! Retract it please!

I'm sorry, I meant Fishmaster! I was just copying the top of the frame from when I quoted your post, then I copied his text into it but forgot to change the name above. My apologies.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Sebatwerk. He's a part of the Illuminati. It's undeniably that he's nothing more than a disinfo agent of the Illuminati seeking to discredit people from seeking the truths and facts about the existence of the Illuminati. He's quite very good at discrediting people from seeking the truth.

Oh Good God~! Don't you think that an organization as clever as the Illuminati supposedly is would know better than to use a loud-mouthed opinionated 25-year-old Freemason software engineer as a disinformation agent in a conspiracy forum?!? You really think they'd expect to get results?!? Now you're just being ridiculous.

It's real convenient for a conspiracy dork to call a skeptic a "disinfo agent". Can't you do any better than that, like argue using reason and logic? Don't begin making absurd accusations just because you can't have a mature discussion.

Don't accuse me of being a "disinfo agent" just because you don't like the fact that I point out the FACTS to you! My arguments are no different than those of other people here, including Nygdan, Intrepid's, MasonicLight's, Axeman's, Senraks, Mirthful's and MANY others. I am more direct and harsh with my words, but the message is the same.

If you want to base your entire beliefs on assumptions, don't do it in a forum that claims to deny ignorance.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by koryosborn
its funny how you just keep saying that it doesn't exist and you're totally ignoring the fact that it does exist. things just don't make sense to you right now because you're not understanding the whole picture. you have to first come to the realization that the illuminati exists. i don't know how you're ever going to do that, but it's up to you to do it. when you do that, a huge piece of the puzzle becomes clear and more of the whole picture presents itself. if you cannot ever come to this realization or it is that you're too brainwashed at this point to open your mind to ideas that are this outside the box, it will be unfortunate for you. best of luck to you.

It's funny how you just keep saying that he doesn't exist; you're totally ignoring the fact that he does exist. Things don't make sense to you right now because you're not understanding the whole picture. You have to first come to the realization that Santa Clause exists. I don't know how you're ever going to do that, but it's up to you to do it. When you do that, a huge piece of the puzzle becomes clear (and you get cool toys on December 25th) and more of the whole picture presents itself. If you cannot ever come to this realization or it is that you're too brainwashed at this point to open your mind to ideas that are this outside the box, it will be unfortunate for you. Best of luck to you! Ho ho ho!


[edit on 7/15/2005 by JustMe74]

^

Seriously though, this topis is really quite silly. As a long avid researcher I'm totally open to the discussion of topics no matter how obscure they may be or how little viable information may be available, but this one is pushing it a bit.

Yes the Illuminati did at one time exist but there is little evidence supporting their continued existence and this has been the case for over a hundred years. Now yes, the individuals supposedly belonging to this group may still be active working under a different name towards th same results of world domination blah blah blah, but its all theory, and there have always been people working towards world domination, they're called governments and super powers. Could there be a secret alliance of world leaders or influencers secretly plotting the course of history and civilization, sure but if so, do you really think you're going to be able to join or even know how? If the illuminati does exist in one form or another based on their supposed history and cause I would assume the following : That membership is by invitation only, and that their will be some type of bloodline requirement.

If you guys really think this is something we can discuss with real results then you might as well go knock on the S&B's door and say "Hi, I wanted to see how I could join the Illuminati" Now if you're lucky they'll snatch you inside make you perform blood rituals and eat a pineal gland. If not they'll shut the door in your face, at that point you should go to Grand Lodge Rockefeller and do the same. Happy Hunting!

Just for the sake of redherrings.
" the greatest joke the devil every played was letting the owrld believe he doesn't exist." ( i saw it a movie once )