Long Lance,

You got us. We were lying, trying to keep the big blue killing hate-machine rolling. But you found us out! Microwaves, tasers, and laser beams from a dogs backside... all tools we use to keep the unwashed masses in line. And we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddlin' kids! No Scooby Snacks for you!

Long Lance and Fight World Trade, both of you please. Cops use tasers and other less then lethal means to control situations to make things safer for all involved. But as was pointed out many posts ago there is a big difference between non-lethal and less then lethal. Nobody in law enforcement or corrections wants to kill anybody we are in the jobs we are in to protect lives. Our training is rigorous and emphazies ways to avoid employing lethal force. A taser is termed less then lethal because the vast majority of the population will not be killed or permanately harmed by it. The cop in question showed extreme restraint and professionalism.

on a side note, most taser victims die like an hour later (good for statistics, in case of despearation, fabricate a drug abuse story), microwaves cause blindness, cancer and many other ailments they shouldn't cause, since mainstream science simply denies anything non-thermal, which has been disproven by a lethal accident involving blood transfusions.

wake up and smell the tear gas, vicitms often end up dead and therefore can't defend themselves, while the perpetrators have all the time and support they need to get away with pretty much anything, and they know it.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Long Lance]


Wow, in an hour.....we'll say in this case...although he was dead in the ambulance on scene.....the cops here were able to create a party the subject attended, with twenty high school friends who were willing to say he was doing drugs and running around the neighborhood like a maniac even fighting with them, filled in the caller on what the story was gonna be, got the EMS up to speed on the story too, shot the subject up with meth and "x", pumped his heart to circulate it(unless the medical examiner's office was in on the plan), cleared the comuterized history of the taser of the three-ten minute blast it would take to kill him and recharge the battery, swept up the crap and piss, clean theirselves up, filled in arriving officers, even the ones that showed up from other departments, did the "men in Black" memory thing on everyone in the neighborhood who woke up from the lights, and then made sure the media and the whole world were fooled into continually believing the whole thing. my god these cops are amazing, thats CIA stuff. I can't believe they work for a 25 man department in a township making a wopping 35-55 grand a year.
Yeah I believe your whole conspiracy theory...wake up mel gibson...and what the heck is "despearation"

And if they are using xrays in IRAQ, who cares.....they use big ole bombs too. they can't really "put em in the corner". IT'S A WAR, and technology is too keep our sons and daughters far away from the guys they are trying to kill...so they don't get killed like the thousands killed in the towers by those turds. Do you think we should fight against cowards who use children to bomb churches with hand guns and knives?

And again bad guys are not VICTIMS(refer back to the meth fairy on earlier page for question)

oh wait...I shouldn't post this "big-brother" will know I am giving out the secrets of police and governments

Sorry, but having been tased, I know there is no lasting effect on the body. Unfortunatly, we ALL know that drugs continually effect the body. Therefore in the examples you are referring to it is entirely REASONABLE to say that the taser was not the cause of death, an hour later. Thats like saying someone rode a roller coaster yesterday and died from the exitement today.
And if you know anything about drug overdoses, you would know that they don't happen immediately, it takes a while before they "POP". Therefore again, the examples you cited would be reasonable assumed to be drug induced. You even said "good for statistics, in case of despearation, fabricate a drug abuse story", meaning cops are faking drug tox levels in paople that you imply they are tasing to death for no good reason.

You at least have to admit that the idea that all cops, who are supposed to be the "good guys", are really the bad guys. And the people hopped up on drugs, acting crazy, that cops get called to deal with by other "normal citizens" are really the "victims" of random police coverups.....is a little obtuse.

AS Dave Chapelle says, "Johnson...sprinkle some crack on em, and lets get outta here".

I am sorry, and I don't want to be rude but, you sound a bit paranoid to me.

laugh at the notion all you want, the idea that a taser in conjunction with drug kills with significant delay is equally ridiculous then, because, while a drug might stay, the taser will not and if you suggest these people would have died anyway, i have nothing to add here.

people react differently to electric stimulus, a few people get the shaft and die (even more might suffer from severe side effects no-one acknowledges either), but with your mentality being prevalent i don't expect to see any serious (read: unbiased) investigation done anytime soon.

This officer was doing her job, and defensively used a supposedly non-lethal weapon. The man should not have charged her, nor should he have been trespassing.


I agree one thousand percent. It seems that the people we put in position of authority always takes a hard knock when something doesn't go right. It's a total shame. They are there to protect, and serve. Point blank. Now, if someone is to mention killing, or death, what does an officer have to do to protect? They are to protect and serve the public, and also themselves.

Prevalent, or right?

Good god, the officer would have been rightous in shooting the guy in the head, yet chose to use another option the would be effective, with a very low pecentage of anyone getting hurt. And you still think she should have done something else? That's a third string metality.............talking from the sidelines.

I would love to honestly know what you do for a living, and have someone who thinks they know what they are talking about tell you all the horrible ways you cook the fries.........or whatever.

How many cops get killed a year, in situations just like this? Is this person on drugs, with superhuman strength, not a threat to an officer's life? Yet its the cops fault. Put the blame on the idiots doing the drugs. If noone was doing drugs, then we wouldn't have Taser/Drug related deaths.
Wake up Peter Pan.
If this guy would have been attacking you, just like he was attacking the people at the party earlier, you would have thanked the cops for tasing him. And please don't say would would have just knocked him out, because I have dealt with more then my share of methed out people, and it generally takes at least four people to just hold them down. And I have watched a man who was high on meth, acting unbelievably similar to this get wrestled to the ground and held there by four cops. Not one of them tased, sprayed, hit, kicked, struck, or shot the guy and he died right there. Excited Delerium. They are on their way, they just don't know it. There are tons of cases just like that too.
So, before you sit and read a story that inspires you into believing that you have even a clue as to what cops go through on a daily basis......try doing the job, if you think you can. Then have a bunch of people, just like yourself, question why you didn't use OC spray on a guy who was running at you in a field at 0130 hours.

All I know is, the cop went home that night, and is still able to take care of her kids. Now everyone can sit and say all they want about her actions, but She is still alive. And if someone had to die in this situation, I prefer the TURD dies, not the cop.

I will not say that a taser, or any other weapon has never been misused, but that is an issue with the individual using it, not the weapon. I won't say that no one will die from its use, but I do believe that the focus on Taser/Drug death should be the drugs. And until you, or someone smarter then both of us, comes up with a weapon that will be more efective in EVERY situation, I say consider it another deterant to getting high. Whose the idiot here, the cop....or the guy smoking a cheap drug made from household cleaners, and iodine......hmmmmm

I guess we are doen with this one?

But before backup arrived, Holcomb ``charged toward her.''
``She gave him verbal orders to stop and when he was a short distance away... the officer felt threatened -- she used her Taser.''
Akron Beacon Journal




This officer was doing her job, and defensively used a supposedly non-lethal weapon. The man should not have charged her, nor should he have been trespassing.
I have sympathy for the man's family, but my heart goes out to the officer. A Taser is not supposed to kill, she apparently only tried to keep from being attacked. This man was reportedly healthy, so why did the Taser kill?

Umm, maybe it was the dope and alcohol that did it? Would you rather she was the one that wound up dead? Maybe you know of a less lethal weapon that would have kept Her from being beat to death or raped?

There is no perfect weapon for law enforcement yet.

Maybe we should just go back to the big mick with a billy club?

Originally posted by The Vagabond
There are basically two ways that I can imagine a taser killing somebody.

1. If you didn't stop zapping them. There should be a quick review of the training given to the officers, and if they don't already, Tasers shoudl have a device which records how much of a jolt they give the target.

2. If your heart is weak or adversely affected by drugs, getting pumped full of electricity might kill you- no shock there.

Vagabond, to address your above two concerns (of course I don't work in Summit County Ohio so their equipment may be different than what we use here in Dallas):

1) The Taser X26 (yes Taser is a brand, Tasers are electro-muscular conductive energy weapons, Taser is much easier to say) used in Dallas will only allow you to administer 5 seconds of electricity at a time. There is no limit to the amount of jolts given until battery depletion and yes, they do record their usage internally. In Dallas, each Taser is checked once a week to find discrepancies in usage.

2) Most definately! We've had at least one death that has been attributed to the taser, Jose Romero, but he too was also high on cocaine. Actually, there has been dispute by medical personnel in the area as to how big a role the Taser played in his death. I think there might be one more death in Dallas that is Taser related, but the only article I've seen in the news was regarding Mr. Romero's. I would have posted links, but they go to the Dallas Morning News and a subscription is required.

As to voltage and amperage used by your standard Taser X-26: 50,000 volts at 4 miliamps. Just to give some perspective, your wall socket has 120 volts. And if you ever had a portable electro stimulator prescribed by a doctor, they go up to 50 miliamps (I have one for an injury to my back, I usually crank it up to 50 miliamps, it's voltage is 25 volts, and set the frequency to 150 Hz, or 150 shots of electricity a second). For those who think that 50,000 volts is still too much, in my sixth grade science class, our teacher brought in a Vandergraf (sp?) generator that generated over 1,000,000 volts, and all it did was made your hair stand up. I'm not sure what frequency Tasers use, but I suspect that is how they disrupt your musculature, but using the same frequency as the body uses to contract muscles.

Originally posted by SportyMB
Maybe a cop or former police officer on ATS can clarify this. Im going off of what I read in a book on deadly force encounters....so I cant say it's true for sure.
Anways, It is my understanding that cops are trained to shoot to kill, not to wound or stop. I understand why it is this way.....even if you shoot them many times they may still be alive and still have the momentum and or strength to pull a trigger, stab, deliver a blow to the head or whatever else.
Incapacitate the target, shoot center mass.

Anyways I understand the lady lost her son and her understanding is very clouded right now but he had/has a much higher chance of dying if he is shot in the leg than if he is tazed.

Everything you said was quite correct if we shoot to wound then we would get sued and most likely fired for not following SOP.

Originally posted by J_3
Turns out that some of these "non-lethal" weapons turned out to be quite lethal. If you don't mind paraphrasing a well known Titor.

None of our weapons are refered to as non-lethal, they are class less-lethal for a reason.


Lt.

2 flags, yet 5 pages. Most of which defend the officer.

Proof the majority would rather have more doom and gloom?

[edit on 7/14/09 by Cyprex]

In this case the cop acted accordingly. But I do agree that cops abuse the taser.

The taser I believe only puts out about 28-45 watts. the voltage is really high so every inch of your body is charged to 28-40 watts. Not just the direct point between the two contact probes. the whole body. But tit's still only 28 watts. but if you get zapped in between the beats of the heart when the cardiac or pulminary nerve is getting ready, but hasn't yet fired, than you short out the signal, the heart stops and the guy has a heart attack.

There is actually a tool designed to measure your pulse and time the shock to hit you right in between the beats on purpose. The wattage is much lower so there is no real burn marks or evidence. perfect for assassinations in a dark alleyway. one guy holds you or grabs you. the other guy presses the device into the victim and pulls the trigger. the device measures the pulse for a beat or two, then delivers a perfectly times zap and the victim has a fatal heart attack. The taser kills in the same way but it just happens to hit that sweet spot timing wise by pure coincidence and they person dies.

I think tasers are used too often for torture. but I think the stun guns are much more abused. both by cops and by criminals for torture.