Chinese indigenious weapons

I think the point of this thread is not to deny that old Chinese equipment were copied because they were and that's a very well known fact. The point is modern designs are moving away from that practice and will eventually move to full indegenous designs.
It seems there are three phases in the catching up process
Phase I: total copy, learn how others produce their equipment. Example: J-5, J-6, J-7, Type 56 assault rifle. Most are from USSR when it still existed and China just happen to be pretty hostile against USSR back then.
Phase II: further development of existing technologies. Learn to design a bit by modding already existing designs. Example: J-10, FC-1. Note however that in both cases the original designs (Lavi and Product-33) were sold to China by Israel and Russia so I take it that neither of them mind the Chinese playing with it. Besides, neither jets have ever entered service.
Phase III: full indegenous designs. Examples: Type 051 destroyers (nobody proved to me they're "copies" so I take it that they're not), Type 95 assault rifle (nobody gave any resonable proof they're "copies" of anything either)

It seems most Chinese designs today are still in Phase II, but eventually everything will move to Phase III.

Originally posted by chinawhite
give me any edvience of me changing your post???
i just copied and pasted what i said in the other thread.

All i said was that you have quoted my post carrying some parts that i did not post in the concerned thread.

Please read what you copy post with proper awareness of the reference in which you are doing so.

Is this an extension of your never failing ignorance or what ?

Gosh...must be your much acclaimed intellect.

[edit on 30-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

2 things :

> only a mockup has been built

> I found this :

The L-15 has been designed by HAIG under the technical assistance from Russian Yokovlev OKB

source

However it looks great

[edit on 30-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Taishyou
It seems there are three phases in the catching up process
Phase I: total copy, learn how others produce their equipment. Example: J-5, J-6, J-7, Type 56 assault rifle. Most are from USSR when it still existed and China just happen to be pretty hostile against USSR back then.
Phase II: further development of existing technologies. Learn to design a bit by modding already existing designs. Example: J-10, FC-1. Note however that in both cases the original designs (Lavi and Product-33) were sold to China by Israel and Russia so I take it that neither of them mind the Chinese playing with it. Besides, neither jets have ever entered service.
Phase III: full indegenous designs. Examples: Type 051 destroyers (nobody proved to me they're "copies" so I take it that they're not), Type 95 assault rifle (nobody gave any resonable proof they're "copies" of anything either)

agreed . Good observation and nice demarcation into phases.

It seems most Chinese designs today are still in Phase II, but eventually everything will move to Phase III.

agreed again, but maybe in 15 to 20 years time.
However it is a step in the better direction

Originally posted by QuietSoul

Originally posted by QuietSoul
Are we going to DISCUSS anything on this DISCUSSION BOARD thread or just post a bunch of pictures and links?

i dont mind having a civilised discussion on the subject.

it seems there is an unrelenting arguement on who knows the most about modern day weaponry rather than the more pressing question of; where is this scary proliferation of weapons leading us too?

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by Army

You said Strategic, not rockets. Hell, China has been launching rockets of all sorts ever since they figured out black powder.

But Chinese fireworks were never a nuclear capable danger to America, until they copied technology supplied by the Klinton administration. You can also thank Billy Boy for the advances in North Korea.

Which makes my statement....correct.

my my.. you really don't like clinton do you??!

but I agree with you in the case of china stealing ballistic technology from the US for their own military use..
As I said a google for the "cox report" and "china espionage SLBM ICBM los alamos" will reveal lots of info.. And it was espionage.. not antics of the clinton admin..

..
Scientists of chinese origin working in los alamos passed secret info..Info sp specific that it could be traced down to a combination of 7 SLBMs and ICBMs

i dont think you can incorperate the us designs on to a chinese missile. its like putting a square in a circle hole

i think they are more useful in learning about the US missile codes on weaknesses.

The designs i posted are indeginious designs.

i am completely right about this

some of the features or some of the designs were used from other planes but no where in the world have they already designed the same plane/ship/tank.

china uses other countries tech to upgrade there armed forces. The tech china got doesn't brlong to countries its just technongly that china paid for.

J-10

J-10 (Project 10/Project 8810?) is a multi-role single-engine fighter being developed by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) and 611 Institute. It has been selected by PLAAF as the next generation fighter to replace the obsolete J-7 fighter and Q-5 attack aircraft. Shown here is the 03 prototype approaching the runway at CAC/Factory 132 before landing, with its landing gears fully extended. The aircraft appears to have an Su-27 style nose and retangular air intake, an AL-31F type engine, twin nosewheels, and a distinct low-visibility camouflage color scheme. The aircraft also has a large vertical tail plus twin F-16 style ventral stablizers believed to provide greater stability at high AoA. Its fuselage looks considerably longer compared to Israeli Lavi. However its bubble canopy appears less elevated than that of F-16, suggesting the pilot has yet to possess a true 360° view. Unlike J-7E with double-delta wings, it appears to have a pair of inverted gull wings (i.e. the inner portion extends slightly downward, while the outer portion extends flat). Two red dummy PL-8 AAMs are regularly seen carried under the wing as well. The J-10 project was started in the mid-80s based on the experience (tailless delta wing and canard foreplanes) with J-9 which was cancelled earlier in favor of the less risky J-7C/MIG-21MF project. An early model of J-10 revealed a Mirage 2000 style intake with a center shock cone for better high speed performance and a Lavi style tail section, suggesting a possible connection with the cancelled Israeli fighter (however this was firmly denied by both parties). The change indicates that J-10 has gone through at least one major redesign in its 10-year development period from the initial conventional layout (as an air-superiority fighter) to the latest semi-stealthy design (as a multi-role fighter). This change may reflect a shift of its potential adversaries from former Soviet Mig-29/Su-27 to current American F-15/F-16 after end of the Cold War. The new design will certainly be fitted with advanced avionics including a "glass cockpit" (1 wide-angle HUD + 2 monochrome MFD + 1 color MFD), HMS, HOTAS, GPS/INS, air data computer, RWR, digital quadruplex FBW, digital fuel management system, 1553B databus, and a new PD fire-control radar (search distance 52~148km, track 4-8 targets simutaneously). The radar candidates include Israeli Elta EL/M 2035 (Type 1473?), Russian Phazotron Zhuk-M (Zhemchug), or the indigenous JL-10A from LETRI (with technical assistance from Phazotron?). A variety of newly developed air-to-air (e.g. PL-8 short-range IR-guided AAM and PL-11/PL-12/SD-10 medium-range radar-guided AAM) and air-to-surface weapons (e.g. C-701 TV-guided ASM & LGBs) are also expected to be carried under 11 hardpoints. Although it was believed to be powered initially by a 27,560lb/12,500kg thrust AL-31FN turbofan, a modified AL-31F which itself powers Su-27/J-11, Russia reportedly had denied China the license to produce the engine locally. As the result, an indigenous engine (WS-10A?) may be fitted later when the serial production starts. Some US military analysts believed that J-10 could pose a serious challenge to F/A-18E in terms of maneuverability. Some specifications of J-10 are (estimated): empty weight 9,750kg, max TO weight 19,277kg, internal fuel 4,500kg, external load 4,500kg, g load +9/-3, max speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)/Mach 1.2 (sea level), TO distance