Rewards For A Job Well Done

The guys who were responsible for the Faulty Intelligence MANDATED by Bush have not been disciplined at all for their dismal failures, instead, they got promted, got raises and a good pat on the back for helping to perpetuate the lies that led us to war.

www.truthout.org...
Analysts Behind Iraq Intelligence Were Rewarded
By Walter Pincus
The Washington Post

Saturday 28 May 2005

Two Army analysts whose work has been cited as part of a key intelligence failure on Iraq - the claim that aluminum tubes sought by the Baghdad government were most likely meant for a nuclear weapons program rather than for rockets - have received job performance awards in each of the past three years, officials said.

The civilian analysts, former military men considered experts on foreign and US weaponry, work at the Army's National Ground Intelligence Center (NGIC), one of three US agencies singled out for particular criticism by President Bush's commission that investigated US intelligence.

The Army analysts concluded that it was highly unlikely that the tubes were for use in Iraq's rocket arsenal, a finding that bolstered a CIA contention that they were destined for nuclear centrifuges, which was in turn cited by the Bush administration as proof that Saddam Hussein was reconstituting Iraq's nuclear weapons program.

The problem, according to the commission, which cited the two analysts' work, is that they did not seek or obtain information available from the Energy Department and elsewhere showing that the tubes were indeed the type used for years as rocket-motor cases by Iraq's military. The panel said the finding represented a "serious lapse in analytic tradecraft" because the center's personnel "could and should have conducted a more exhaustive examination of the question."

It's not just ok to conjecture, it is rewarded and encouraged in our intelligence community, but I guess it's ok as long as the lies are mandated by a regime.
These guys should have lost their jobs at the very least.

They did their jobs quite well and they were duly rewarded. Trouble is, their job was to lie.

...and if the aluminum tubes had btyeen used for but they had thought that the tubes were usefull for other purposes and they had NOT reported their investigative findings then they would have been derelect in their duty. In intelligence, it seems, you can't win. You are damned if you report facts but make the wrong conclusions you lose. It's amazing what these guys are able to produce in the line of intelligence. It's like putting together a jig saw puzzle from a variety of different boxes that were all thrown together and the image that they are trying to put together has been thrown away. I salute these guys for the incredible work that they do. Their success' are not reported but their failures are touted as being indicative of all of their efforts.

Yeah, it's amazing what they can do alright. But when they make fugg ups of monumental proportions only a hundred thousand or so people die for mistaken 'intel'. I'd say that justifies a monumental kick in the arse, personally.

What's at stake is huge. Any error in the outcome deserves swift and merciless punishment.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
...and if the aluminum tubes had btyeen used for but they had thought that the tubes were usefull for other purposes and they had NOT reported their investigative findings then they would have been derelect in their duty. In intelligence, it seems, you can't win. You are damned if you report facts but make the wrong conclusions you lose. It's amazing what these guys are able to produce in the line of intelligence. It's like putting together a jig saw puzzle from a variety of different boxes that were all thrown together and the image that they are trying to put together has been thrown away. I salute these guys for the incredible work that they do. Their success' are not reported but their failures are touted as being indicative of all of their efforts.

The CIA, the panel said, contributed to misjudgments about the aluminum tubes. The commission found that some US intelligence analysts believed the Iraqis had re-engineered an Italian rocket called the Medusa, which also used the type of aluminum tubes that Iraq was seeking. But neither the Pentagon agencies nor the CIA - the most vociferous proponents of the idea that the tubes were destined for nuclear use - obtained the specifications for the Italian-made Medusa until well after the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003.

that's not reporting facts, that's gross incompetence....and due to that incompetence, we wrongfully invaded a country and killed thousands of their citizens.....oh well, ehhhhh?

the intelligence community does not make policy. They only report the facts and their "take". It's up to the politicians and policymakers to take that info, the evaluation and do with it as they may. The politicians know the risks of using "good intell" or "bad intell". Their are risks that the policymakers have to weigh if they delay moving on "bad intell" when the consequences could be dire. Don't shoot the messenger.

It appears that in the united states neither the governement, nor the intelligence services are responsible for the policy.

Originally posted by cargo
Any error in the outcome deserves swift and merciless punishment.

It is easy for you to say that considering that you don't know half the facts in their assesment of the situation. I would put money on it that 90% of that report is still classified. Most of the things that these people are involved with are never seen, mentioned, or in the public eye...EVER.

I thank God that we have good people in those high stress jobs that do the work they do, day in and day out, without any accolades. They work in offices with no cell phones, no windows and must have regular polygraphs and random UA's. Their occupation has unwritten credos like "don't f*** up" and the pressure is immense.

The only benefit they ever see out of their work is a very modest salary, 401k, health insurance, and the continuation of our nation. Their families get to enjoy life as normal people who don't have to worry about death squads or car bombs.

Yeah, if they get it wrong, they have to live with that for the rest of their lives and hopefully, the next time, they will get it right. If you are too busy weeding out people who make mistakes, you never get anyone with experience in the position. We ALL make mistakes. Sometimes, they get it all correct and they still take one for the team because no one can ever know about it. The general populace panics pretty easily, my friend. There are things in this world that they should never know about so the world can keep turning.

Some of those people in the IC are the best people you would ever have the privilage of knowing. They know what is at stake. They know lives are on the line. They do the job for YOU! They don't do the work for the money, that is for sure. They can't even tell their family about any of the work they do so that they might understand why they are away from home a lot, or moody, or angry at times.

I think you would be surprised if you had one day in their shoes and could see what they see. Then maybe you would have trouble sleeping at night like they do knowing what they protect us from.

They never see one day of recognition unless they are taking one for the team and that recognition is ALL NEGATIVE. Most of you say that "Bushco" is pretty bad. The other "things" which lurk in the darkness make your so called "Bushco" look like humanitarians.

This is a topic that is very close to me, so I apologize for being a bit caustic. They are a very underappreciated bunch, indeed.



[edit on 29-5-2005 by xman_in_blackx]

xman_in_blackx, I'll conceed that post was a good one man. Your absolutely right and I know our intelligence agencies do a good job, but I have to wonder how many silent Sibel Edmonds' are in the woodwork. It isn't the fault of intelligence ultimately because of one little word. Mandated.
The faulty intelligence which led to Iraq was MANDATED, and the mandate came from within the hierarchy of the intelligence command. Intelligence in this case is really only guilty of conjecture, and the word Conjecture to me is a much lesser crime when under the word of mandate. You start getting into faked documents for yellow cake uranium and other big news stories, that comes from higher ups and policy makers, not the hard working field agents and cubicle spies.
Right you are, I enjoyed your opinion.

It's not all that of a surprise is it, after all the same exact bs has been goingo n for years any ways. The only ones who don't think so, are those who are so damn blind that they wouln't see a car jacking until it happened to them. I see alot of the same old scams, only thing new are the "suits".

These people have expectations to fulfill. If the man wants to see WMDs then they will show him "WMDs". I'm not saying all intelligence analysts are like this. But you can't tell me that there are not those that tell the powers that be what they want to hear.

Yes they do the job for you. That's what you pay them to do. They do it at your expense. They are public servants. I'm positive of what you say about them being good people whose interest is their country and their fellow citizens. But in the end, just who are they really serving?

We have had a very sensitive issue regarding this in my country which I'm not going to go into. Maybe I was harsh about the punishment comment, but think of the ramifications.

[edit on 29-5-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by cargo
But in the end, just who are they really serving?

The fact that threads like this exist is a testament that not everyone has sold out to the darkside, but I do understand your concern. It is a genuine one, but it has been my personal experience that most of the corporations I have worked for are far more sinister. Talk about some black hearts.

I really enjoy our conversations when we are not yelling at each other. Cargo and Twitchy, we have to do this more often.

You both bring up some great stuff to talk about.

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
The general populace panics pretty easily, my friend. There are things in this world that they should never know about so the world can keep turning.

I think you would be surprised if you had one day in their shoes and could see what they see. Then maybe you would have trouble sleeping at night like they do knowing what they protect us from.

They never see one day of recognition unless they are taking one for the team and that recognition is ALL NEGATIVE. Most of you say that "Bushco" is pretty bad. The other "things" which lurk in the darkness make your so called "Bushco" look like humanitarians.

What "things" might that be? Whats more scary than the most powerful nation in the world that has nukes trying to maintain a virtuous public image while simultaneously invading countries for zero defensive purpose? Extraterrestrials?

With the U.S. being the most powerful and apparently the most secretive nation on earth, I really don't know what could be worse that would be human in composition.

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx

I thank God that we have good people in those high stress jobs that do the work they do, day in and day out, without any accolades. They work in offices with no cell phones, no windows and must have regular polygraphs and random UA's. Their occupation has unwritten credos like "don't f*** up" and the pressure is immense.

The only benefit they ever see out of their work is a very modest salary, 401k, health insurance, and the continuation of our nation. Their families get to enjoy life as normal people who don't have to worry about death squads or car bombs.

Yeah, if they get it wrong, they have to live with that for the rest of their lives and hopefully, the next time, they will get it right. If you are too busy weeding out people who make mistakes, you never get anyone with experience in the position. We ALL make mistakes. Sometimes, they get it all correct and they still take one for the team because no one can ever know about it. The general populace panics pretty easily, my friend. There are things in this world that they should never know about so the world can keep turning.

Some of those people in the IC are the best people you would ever have the privilage of knowing. They know what is at stake. They know lives are on the line. They do the job for YOU! They don't do the work for the money, that is for sure. They can't even tell their family about any of the work they do so that they might understand why they are away from home a lot, or moody, or angry at times.

I think you would be surprised if you had one day in their shoes and could see what they see. Then maybe you would have trouble sleeping at night like they do knowing what they protect us from.

They never see one day of recognition unless they are taking one for the team and that recognition is ALL NEGATIVE. Most of you say that "Bushco" is pretty bad. The other "things" which lurk in the darkness make your so called "Bushco" look like humanitarians.

[edit on 29-5-2005 by xman_in_blackx]

I concur xman_in_blackx . These individuals are without a doubt the finest we got, countless unsung heros whose daily actions make Clancy resemble Roald Dahl. Some of my concerns are like twitchy's with the Sibel Edmonds's and the attrition of out-of-the-box types at the sole discretion of upper echelon. IMO they are the nation's greatest assets and shouldn't be vindictively subjected to psych evals, losing clearances, or relegated to red badge gigs because their actionable intel/recon doesn't parse well, esp. in regards to Saudi Arabia,Israel & China. Not to mention further internal politicizing with the deliberate circumventing of FISA/USSID18 by SCS. Also why fuse the stovepipes and not prod where the smouldering occurs? The Arm Services Committee and Intelligence Panel are already creating hurdles for Negroponte. Other concerns of mine are addressed in this article:
www.onlinejournal.com...

There is no such thing as accountability and this is no different. The job is botched and someone gets a raise. Why is that any differewnt than reelecting Bush in 2004 after he botched the Iraq war?

the intelligence community does not make policy. They only report the facts and their "take". It's up to the politicians and policymakers to take that info, the evaluation and do with it as they may. The politicians know the risks of using "good intell" or "bad intell". Their are risks that the policymakers have to weigh if they delay moving on "bad intell" when the consequences could be dire. Don't shoot the messenger.

It think it was made quite clear in the article that the Intel was sketchy and half-assed -mind my tounge. The incompetence of the Intelligence agencies to tout information years old and slighty substantiated has, as is evident in Iraq, led to a great deal of umbrage in regards to the men and women who are simply 'messengers'.

Deep