The British No Longer A Friend of the USA?

Originally posted by cargo
Who are your new friends? Who is this "us" you refer to? I should make something clear, and you probably won't like it. I, and many like me around the world, fully support Americans. We just don't support you. Your country is so divided into such hostile and clearly distinguished camps that it is very easy to establish who shares the same or similar attitudes, motives and goals with us. Quite frankly, I'm tired of the neocon warmongering and ultimatums.

And I'm tired of your appeasement and coddling of criminals, terrorists and dictators spewing virulent hatred at Americans and what America stands for. Your recent opinion is reinforcing how I see you this way: a weak, appeasing, whining nobody who doesn't have a gut to stand up and defend the rights of the people/the country to be the best or successful at whatever, just as long as you're making opinionated conjectures at something you do not clearly understand.

By the way, I'm not even a neocon and not even in that camp. I'm straight and independent republican who believes in national-economic security of the United States of America takes precedence over the freaking planet. Without the USA, the world have no legs to stand on. You needed the best and the worst of us to keep the world afloat. Without us, you're nothing.

Originally posted by cargo
You need to start taking responsibility for your own personal views and ideologies. You are quick to spew vitriol at your fellow countrymen in the other camp when it suits you, but when your own camp is faced with such sustained dislike around the world you are quite happy to drag them in to share your burden. Crying "See? See?? Look how they hate us!!". No, it is you we don't like. Extremist Right-Wing Fundamentalist Neo-Conservative Zealots.

You need to start taking responsibility for making opinionated conjectures and half-baked asinine views about America and the American people. Plus you're making up labels to categorize the American people on the basis of their views or beliefs are about the same as the Nazis categorized peoples on the basis of their religions, sex, gender and political beliefs.

You, sir, are thinking like a Nazi. Period.

Originally posted by cargoIn brief: We don't want your friendship. That pleasure is reserved for the rest of America.

Typical. Make cherry-picking people who think like you and befriend on the basis of that just show how really original you are.

Just to show how stupid you are? I know about the history (not a great deal) of Northern Ireland and the British occupation. I'm half-Irish and my father's maternal family (my great grandparents) was from there (somewhere in Northern Ireland) before they immigrated to the US in 1880s.

Great. Let me give you a medal. No, in fact, let me erect a monument in your honour as you obviously understand the political situation of NI, as your family emigrated only 125 years ago.....


Let me give you a quick crash course.....seeing as I have actually lived there myself for several years.


The majority of the population of NI is made up of PROTESTANT english and scottish settlers, who if asked in a referendum, would vote to stay as part of the UK. It is the minority catholic population that is getting arsey. We are not going to "leave" NI, as that is not what the people who live there want. It would be like asking the US to return New Mexico et al to the Mexicans just because it was theirs years ago. You ask the people who live there now what they would think of that.......... Exactly !


Cool it yourself, chump. Honestly, claiming to understand something, because your ancestors came from there over a century ago before hitching a ride on a steamer to the Land of Plenty.....


EDIT: How exactly does your Fathers maternal grand parents being Irish make you Half-Irish? Is your Mother something like 3/8ths Irish or something? How can that be?

[edit on 8/6/05 by stumason]

[edit on 8/6/05 by stumason]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
And I'm tired of your appeasement and coddling of criminals, terrorists and dictators spewing virulent hatred at Americans and what America stands for.

Find and quote one single post where I have done these things. Just one. Failure to do so will be taken as an admission of defeat.

Typical. Make cherry-picking people who think like you and befriend on the basis of that just show how really original you are.

Sorry. As much as you want to be my friend, it's just not going to happen.

Plus you're making up labels to categorize the American people on the basis of their views or beliefs are about the same as the Nazis categorized peoples on the basis of their religions, sex, gender and political beliefs.

You really are scraping here mate. It's your system, your camps. Just look at these very boards, Neocons vs Democrats. I never made those up, did I? I have never once associated the US administration with Nazi Germany. Ever. But here you are attacking me with it in the most basless fashion. Swing again batter...

By the way, you never answered these questions:

Originally posted by cargo
Who are your new friends? Who is this "us" you refer to?

[edit on 9-6-2005 by cargo]

[edit on 9-6-2005 by cargo]

It is the minority catholic population that is getting arsey

And well they shoud have! if constituencies are being gerrymandered so as Unionist politicians can win in hugely Nationalist areas wouldn't you feel agrieved? The killing and the bombing weren't right but the getting arsey certainly is.

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
And well they shoud have! if constituencies are being gerrymandered so as Unionist politicians can win in hugely Nationalist areas

hmmmm... kinda sounds a lot like TEXAS, USA.

[edit on 6/9/05 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by stumason
Let me give you a quick crash course.....seeing as I have actually lived there myself for several years.

Belfast? Must be a great place to live in the middle of all that ongoing hostility between Catholics and Protestants that would shame the Shia and the Sunni in Iraq.

Originally posted by stumason
The majority of the population of NI is made up of PROTESTANT english and scottish settlers, who if asked in a referendum, would vote to stay as part of the UK. It is the minority catholic population that is getting arsey. We are not going to "leave" NI, as that is not what the people who live there want. It would be like asking the US to return New Mexico et al to the Mexicans just because it was theirs years ago. You ask the people who live there now what they would think of that.......... Exactly

!

That is an entirely different situation. There have been Irish people living in northern Ireland before the arrival of English and Scottish settlers. You should have know the history of the Irish people living in the land before the English/Scottish arrival. It's THEIR land, their country for centuries. Only the settlement of the Protestant English and Scottish complicated the matter for the Catholic Irish folks hereafter. I just stated "not a great deal" about the issues of Northern Ireland but I've studied its history a bit, the majority of the Irish supports unification of Ireland with Northern Ireland but 6 counties (Northern Ireland) out of 32 counties of Ireland not deciding to join due to complicated political issues between Protestant and Catholic factions fighting in the streets or in the government.

The existence of New Mexico as a state of the Union was due to the secession and independence of Texas from Mexico in 1836, not the US. The northern and eastern half along the Rio Grande belonging to the Republic of Texas while the western half belonging to Mexico. It was the Mexican-American War of 1846 to 1848 that forced Mexico to give up the western half of the Mexican territory in the end: California, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, parts of Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico. In return for that territory, Mexico got the sum of $15 millions in 1848 from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Note: Texas joined the union in 1845. Whatever happened in New Mexico at the time was not due to the US but to the unresolved disputes between Texas and Mexico and the US government picked up the slack afterward.

One last thing: the Native American peoples in New Mexico do not have good opinions of the Spanish-descended Mexicans or the Aztecan-descended natives. Enmity between these peoples goes back to the time of the Spanish conquest and colonization of the Americas.

Just to be sure with you on the issue of Native Americans and the US government's wrong-headed policies of the past against them. My government's past treatments of the Native Americans were terribly wrong and foolishly ignorant, mostly it's more of ignorance between white American settlers and Native Americans than an actual outright hostility. We didn't understand them, they didn't understand us. Plain and straightforward.

Originally posted by stumason
EDIT: How exactly does your Fathers maternal grand parents being Irish make you Half-Irish? Is your Mother something like 3/8ths Irish or something? How can that be?

It's not by true bloodline but by ancestral heritage (knowing and linking your family's roots). Genealogy is pretty popular among Americans as they wanted to find out and learn more about their ancestral heritages and roots via their paternal and maternal forebears. I just learned few years ago that there was a strong English-Irish root on my mother's paternal side of family. The ones from my father's maternal family side were true Irish (eventually their Irish-born daughter married a Norwegian immigrant).

You, as in everybody, are the very reason that gave meaning to your ancestors. So many other peoples in your ancestors' times weren't so lucky, if you understand what I mean?

[edit on 6/9/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by cargo
Find and quote one single post where I have done these things. Just one. Failure to do so will be taken as an admission of defeat.

I'm just posting a sarcastic response to your asinine comment neo-con warmongers. However, your attitude tells me a different story about your views of the American foreign policy.

Originally posted by cargoSorry. As much as you want to be my friend, it's just not going to happen.

I've already good friends from your "Motherland" long before I know you.

[

Originally posted by cargo
You really are scraping here mate. It's your system, your camps. Just look at these very boards, Neocons vs Democrats. I never made those up, did I? I have never once associated the US administration with Nazi Germany. Ever. But here you are attacking me with it in the most basless fashion. Swing again batter...

"Extremist Right-Wing Fundamentalist Neo-Conservative Zealots". That's a labeling of something you truly know NOTHING about America. Labeling people on the basis of their political and religious beliefs is sooooo typical European, almost Nazi-like.

Why should I answer to a know-nothing a-hole like you?

Originally posted by the_oleneo
No, that's the future version of the UN police force, modeling after a futuristic version of US Army Infantryman that won't be seen in public, perhaps never will. Some concepts can be pretty inspiring, you know?

Yeah UN police force, you do relise that the UN is made of countries and not a seperate country right?
Add to the fact that the UN doesnt equip its soldiers with specific UN kit but instead lets the soldiers use thier own kit?

www.cryeassociates.com...

The UN IS a NWO organization, at least the forerunner of the future one world government system (though the League of Nations was the failed prototype that gave way to the formation of the UN during World War II).

What?
The UN is no such thing, it says in the charter many times that countries are able to act as soverign countries.
So how does that remove rights?
I think your afraid that the UN is not under US control.
The league of nations was a completely diplomatic orginisation, NOT like the UN.
The UN has an army made up from member states, the league had no army.

Blah, blah, old news. You. You. You. C'mon, stop acting like an infantile-minded tulipwalker passing around the blame-game.

So your unwilling to accept that your country helped terrorists AND helped dictators BUT that its not ok for other countries to help dictators by saying "its old news" . Guess what??? Old news or not , it happened and frankly It shows your countries true "allegience" to freedom and democracy.

Belfast? Must be a great place to live in the middle of all that ongoing hostility between Catholics and Protestants that would shame the Shia and the Sunni in Iraq.

Spot on matey! Whislt I was there, my father had to carry a sidearm at all times. I spent most of my time on camp living behind a huge steel wall with barbed wire and when I went to school, I had to pass through a double checkpoint, and get escorted by armed soldiers up to the school gate. Lovely.....

That is an entirely different situation. There have been Irish people living in northern Ireland before the arrival of English and Scottish settlers. You should have know the history of the Irish people living in the land before the English/Scottish arrival. It's THEIR land, their country for centuries. Only the settlement of the Protestant English and Scottish complicated the matter for the Catholic Irish folks hereafter. I just stated "not a great deal" about the issues of Northern Ireland but I've studied its history a bit, the majority of the Irish supports unification of Ireland with Northern Ireland but 6 counties (Northern Ireland) out of 32 counties of Ireland not deciding to join due to complicated political issues between Protestant and Catholic factions fighting in the streets or in the government.

The existence of New Mexico as a state of the Union was due to the secession and independence of Texas from Mexico in 1836, not the US. The northern and eastern half along the Rio Grande belonging to the Republic of Texas while the western half belonging to Mexico. It was the Mexican-American War of 1846 to 1848 that forced Mexico to give up the western half of the Mexican territory in the end: California, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, parts of Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico. In return for that territory, Mexico got the sum of $15 millions in 1848 from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Note: Texas joined the union in 1845. Whatever happened in New Mexico at the time was not due to the US but to the unresolved disputes between Texas and Mexico and the US government picked up the slack afterward.

One last thing: the Native American peoples in New Mexico do not have good opinions of the Spanish-descended Mexicans or the Aztecan-descended natives. Enmity between these peoples goes back to the time of the Spanish conquest and colonization of the Americas.

Just to be sure with you on the issue of Native Americans and the US government's wrong-headed policies of the past against them. My government's past treatments of the Native Americans were terribly wrong and foolishly ignorant, mostly it's more of ignorance between white American settlers and Native Americans than an actual outright hostility. We didn't understand them, they didn't understand us. Plain and straightforward.

You kinda proved my point there with regards to the NI situation. Either you accept it is a complex political issue, involving sectarian and racist agenda's which there is no simple solution or you conceed you shouldn't be there and pull out. In that vain, the entire US would be on shaky ground with it's treatment of the natives.

It's not by true bloodline but by ancestral heritage (knowing and linking your family's roots). Genealogy is pretty popular among Americans as they wanted to find out and learn more about their ancestral heritages and roots via their paternal and maternal forebears. I just learned few years ago that there was a strong English-Irish root on my mother's paternal side of family. The ones from my father's maternal family side were true Irish (eventually their Irish-born daughter married a Norwegian immigrant).

You, as in everybody, are the very reason that gave meaning to your ancestors. So many other peoples in your ancestors' times weren't so lucky, if you understand what I mean?

Part of my family is also Irish decended. They came from Eniskillen a couple of centuries back as fishermen and settled in Cornwall, where they interbred with the locals, including some blue blood too . Personally, I see myself more as Cornish than English, as for generations that is where my entire family lived and died. I see what you mean about the ancestors and I am quite involved in researching my tree. My uncle has done it far better though!

Originally posted by stumason
Spot on matey! Whislt I was there, my father had to carry a sidearm at all times. I spent most of my time on camp living behind a huge steel wall with barbed wire and when I went to school, I had to pass through a double checkpoint, and get escorted by armed soldiers up to the school gate. Lovely.....

That must have been difficult and scary. Precisely why I'm big on the Second Amendment. I don't trust the police, the military, the security guards, the criminals with guns, the idiots with weapons, the out-of-control idiots as well and so on. I do understand and support the role of the police is to protect and serve the community (because we pay taxes to guarantee peace and security in a community) and the role of the military to defend the state and subdue the enemy anywhere. However, the citizen shall have the right to bear arms because the citizen is the final arbiter of peace and security (when all else have fail).

Originally posted by stumason
You kinda proved my point there with regards to the NI situation. Either you accept it is a complex political issue, involving sectarian and racist agenda's which there is no simple solution or you conceed you shouldn't be there and pull out. In that vain, the entire US would be on shaky ground with it's treatment of the natives.

Well, tell that to the Irish in Ireland and see how they feel about Northern Ireland and what they wanted with N.I.

Originally posted by stumason
Part of my family is also Irish decended. They came from Eniskillen a couple of centuries back as fishermen and settled in Cornwall, where they interbred with the locals, including some blue blood too

. Personally, I see myself more as Cornish than English, as for generations that is where my entire family lived and died. I see what you mean about the ancestors and I am quite involved in researching my tree. My uncle has done it far better though!

That's good. My family are all of English, Scottish, Irish, Norwegian, Welsh and Germanic stocks with a hint of a Native American maternal link (but no specific nation) but my surname is English in origin yet have been in America since the late 17th century.

That must have been difficult and scary. Precisely why I'm big on the Second Amendment. I don't trust the police, the military, the security guards, the criminals with guns, the idiots with weapons, the out-of-control idiots as well and so on. I do understand and support the role of the police is to protect and serve the community (because we pay taxes to guarantee peace and security in a community) and the role of the military to defend the state and subdue the enemy anywhere. However, the citizen shall have the right to bear arms because the citizen is the final arbiter of peace and security (when all else have fail).

Whilst I do not trust the Police much, mainly due to alot of them being the kids that were bullied at school and are now getting their own back, i do trust the Military. This being because my entire family for decades has been in the Forces and it is part of my life, so I know they are good people and are doing what they do for good reasons.

Might not be the same the world over, but in the UK you will find a Soldier far more helpful and considerate than some of the two-bit coppers we have farting around, bothering motorists and teenagers with Hoodies rathering than tackling real crime.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah UN police force, you do relise that the UN is made of countries and not a seperate country right?
Add to the fact that the UN doesnt equip its soldiers with specific UN kit but instead lets the soldiers use thier own kit?

Yes, I know that.

Originally posted by devilwasp
The UN is no such thing, it says in the charter many times that countries are able to act as soverign countries. So how does that remove rights?

I don't think you do realize about the true intentions of the UN and it have nothing to do with world peace, countries working together and solving problems. It's much more than that.

Originally posted by devilwasp
I think your afraid that the UN is not under US control.

Good. I would get the US out of the UN and kick the UN out of the US. Send it to Antarctic would be preferable.

Originally posted by devilwasp
The league of nations was a completely diplomatic orginisation, NOT like the UN.
The UN has an army made up from member states, the league had no army.

First part: not quite. Do your research on what the League of Nations was about. Second part: Yes, that is correct.

As for the rest of your comment, I'm going to ignore it because I'm in a nice mood this evening. Don't push it.

[edit on 6/9/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by stumason
Whilst I do not trust the Police much, mainly due to alot of them being the kids that were bullied at school and are now getting their own back, i do trust the Military. This being because my entire family for decades has been in the Forces and it is part of my life, so I know they are good people and are doing what they do for good reasons.

Ditto. Same with my family in the military services. I was an Army brat.

Originally posted by stumason
Might not be the same the world over, but in the UK you will find a Soldier far more helpful and considerate than some of the two-bit coppers we have farting around, bothering motorists and teenagers with Hoodies rathering than tackling real crime.

[edit on 6/9/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Yes, I know that.

Then your "UN police force" will be an american force....

I don't think you do realize about the true intentions of the UN and it have nothing to do with world peace, countries working together and solving problems. It's much more than that.

Oh really?
Those UN peace envoys , UN investigators and the UN missions are now part of a global conspiricy of a multinational , multigovernmental orginisation?

Good. I would get the US out of the UN and kick the UN out of the US. Send it to Antarctic would be preferable.

Why?
The only REAL thing the UN has lost is money, the loss of life in the UN of US soldiers is minute, the british have a higher support and a higher loss of life figure.

First part: not quite. Do your research on what the League of Nations was about.

I done a 2 year course on it, the league of nations was like the UN because it tried to be diplomatic, but the UN is diffrent because it has an army and doesnt just reject members.

Second part: Yes, that is correct.

Welll done..

As for the rest of your comment, I'm going to ignore it because I'm in a nice mood this evening. Don't push it.
[edit on 6/9/2005 by the_oleneo]

I'll push what I want, when I want.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
One last thing: the Native American peoples in New Mexico do not have good opinions of the Spanish-descended Mexicans or the Aztecan-descended natives. Enmity between these peoples goes back to the time of the Spanish conquest and colonization of the Americas.

I spent time with the Navajos, and on the Navajo Indian reservation in Arizona, and I can tell you, they (in general) feel much more resentment towards white people than they do the Mexican/Spanish descended population. Our leaders really did them wrong through the years. And to say that is an understatement.

And now... regarding that UN Army.. I have no use for the blue helmets. After what they did to our men in Somalia.. I think something drastic needs to be done with the UN forces.

Our men had to literally RUN out of the MOG, firing behind them as the UN vehicles drove on without them. They would not pick our guys up - saying only they could hop on top! The D-Boys and Rangers had to literally drag themselves out of that burning hell of a city back to their base camp after all that fighting! What kind of human beings (in armored vehicles, no less) would leave men behind like that?!

They're worthless!!! They gotta change that. They gotta change their rules of engagement. And maybe ultimately their leadership.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I spent time with the Navajos, and on the Navajo Indian reservation in Arizona, and I can tell you, they (in general) feel much more resentment towards white people than they do the Mexican/Spanish descended population. Our leaders really did them wrong through the years. And to say that is an understatement.

I knew and met several Native Americans over the years, have been to a few Indian reservations on the east coast (and experienced two wonderful Indian sweats! Have you try that? ). I've learned a lot about them. I also knew someone who works for a firm in NYC consulting the UN, this person told me have many inside and outside contacts with Native American organizations and activists over the years and have been to the Navajo Indian reservation before. Your comment regarding the opinions of the Navajo Indians toward the white people seem contradicting to the person's own involvement with the Native American issues. I'm not saying that neither of you are right or wrong, just two conflicting point of views.

You know there are many Native American nations in the US, some were resentful toward the US government and white people in general for the past treatments. But there are some nations who actually have better relations with the whites in the past as well as today. I also learned that in the times before the first colonial settlements in the Americas, there were many Indian nations feuding against each other, especially on the eastern seaboard (some allied Indian nations fighting a coalition of rival Indian nations) and bad bloods among them were commonly known. When the English began to expand beyond the settlements and into the Indian territories, some nations welcomed the opportunities while some nations opposed and fought the English encroachment. When the English fought back to protect the settlements and pioneer convoys, some hostile nations tried to draw friendly nations into the fray in hope of expanding the conflagration and drive out the settlers; however the English have some considerable successes in persuading some friendly nations to not to fight or intervene in exchange for trade, land/water procurement, peace with the colonists and better access to the seas.

People have long pointed out and complained about the political and religious implications of the English white settlers in driving out the Indians from their lands because Christianity and royal access are better than pagan Indian faiths and politics, as it was a popular, convenient myth taught in the history books. In reality, it was all over very complicated land/water settlement and animal/livestock issues than the political/religious implications because agreements made between Indian nations and English settlers were largely verbal. Indians could not read or write English and English settlers had a vague idea of native language/communication methods of the Native Indians at the times. So a lot of misunderstanding, ignorance and fear were the contributing factors to both sides in the tragic history of the English settlers and their relationships with the native Americans.

[edit on 6/10/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
I knew and met several Native Americans over the years, have been to a few Indian reservations on the east coast (and experienced two wonderful Indian sweats! Have you try that?

).

Nope. Never have. I wouldn't mind trying the Navajo's Peyote ritual, tho.

I've learned a lot about them. I also knew someone who works for a firm in NYC consulting the UN, this person told me have many inside and outside contacts with Native American organizations and activists over the years and have been to the Navajo Indian reservation before. Your comment regarding the opinions of the Navajo Indians toward the white people seem contradicting to the person's own involvement with the Native American issues.

I was very close to a Navajo family b/c one of my best buddies/roomate through the Army & war was a Navajo. Because my family (back home) welcomed him into our family & treated him as such, the same was done to me in Arizona when I went to school out there. It was a great honor, as there aren't many palefaces out on the res, I can testify. My buddy told me that there was really only one white guy who lived among them & could speak their language. He lived there for years and adapted to their ways. That is why they accepted him. Mostly though, they did not trust white folks. And I was privvy to alot of inside conversation regarding that. There's still a LOT of bitterness and mistrust. You do right by them, though, and you will have a fierce defender and best friend for life.

I also learned that in the times before the first colonial settlements in the Americas, there were many Indian nations feuding against each other

Oh hell man, most of the tribes (at least out West) used to make war against each other all the time. People are people, whatever color of skin they have.

[edit on 6/10/05 by EastCoastKid]