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Mathematics and National Security

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posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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I propose a new category that uses beginning, intermediate and advanced mathematics in enhancing national security. National security is essential to every American and mathematics is an essential tool to make the U.S. the paragon of the world. May God always bless America.




posted on May, 28 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Hello privy,

Can you go into more detail on what you mean? How exactly are you thinking to utilize mathematics to strengthen national security?



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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Well, the National Security Administration is the largest employer of Mathematics PHDs in the world. I'd say they take mathematics pretty seriously.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Ah, but is there enough Mathematics PhDs?

I certainly don't think so.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 05:35 AM
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Well considering maths is the backbone of western society and every physical contraption that goes with it i would say that its a very important tool but then so are Physicists and many other fields.
Codeing and code breaking are propably the biggest reasons to have so many mathematicians and also computer programming and things of that nature, secure communications and information gathering.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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As TSM said, the NSA is the largest employer of mathematicians around. I received a letter a while back from them, in fact, concerned hire. It was really quite amusing. I got a letter from the NSA with one problem on it. They told me I had one month to do it, by any means I wanted. Quite fun.

Anyway, mathematicians are unbelievably useful, as are physicists. Physics PhDs are incredibly useful because they can use their physics modelling skills for economic models on Wall Street. Mathematics PhDs use their skills to crack and create code and to help develop security programs for all sorts of use. The government is excellent at taking a profession and making it work in a completely unrelated field but doing the same sort of thing they're used to.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
As TSM said, the NSA is the largest employer of mathematicians around. I received a letter a while back from them, in fact, concerned hire. It was really quite amusing. I got a letter from the NSA with one problem on it. They told me I had one month to do it, by any means I wanted. Quite fun.



Do they just look up who has recieved a PHD in Mathmatics? If so that might sound fun whats the salary of one of these NSA guys?



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by The_Final
Do they just look up who has recieved a PHD in Mathmatics? If so that might sound fun whats the salary of one of these NSA guys?


I dunno, depending on what you do it should be quite a lot. I would assume they start pretty high. I don't imagine they want you leaving.

For the record, I was 16 at the time, in advanced courses in a math and science school. If they were finding me, they're finding the PhDs.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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The government wants the best of the best. Most people hate mathemathics. Kids my age only take what is required in school so the can graduate. Very few people with get PHDs in it.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by privy
I propose a new category that uses beginning, intermediate and advanced mathematics in enhancing national security. National security is essential to every American and mathematics is an essential tool to make the U.S. the paragon of the world. May God always bless America.
..............This is a rather vague post however, I am certain that Americans can rest easy as far as Math and National security goes. Naturally, mathematics is an important discipline. Equations that are developed can applied to almost every facet of our lives. And, while other nations value their applied math phd's, the US certainly does the same. Please clarify what you mean?



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Yeah, I would have to agree. I asked a question just after the initial post, and still have not received clarification. And I'm truly interested in learning his meaning.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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I don't think people with doctorates in physics work on models of economies of Wall Street; that's what a Ph.D. econometricist might do.... and as to whether or not the NSA hires more Ph.D.s in math than any other organization, I'd like to see some sort of evidence of that.

But the OP made a great point in that the US is falling behind in producing scientists and engineers; this short-sighted approach on the part of the American people could end up placing us in a third world category in a hundred years or so.

Ironically, our universities are among the best on the planet; one only has to look at how many of the students at places like Stanford, MIT, the University of Chicago, etc. are foreign students to realize that our university system is a magnet of aspiring students everywhere.

However, our primary and secondary schools have become dumb-down factories producing "graduates" who can often barely read their diplomas. Here in Arizona, our legislature mandated a testing program which would require the students to pass a comprehensive statewide exam in order to get a high-school diploma.

The education establishment, of course, was against it, since it would highlight their incompetence; the minority-as-victim advocates branded the test as "racist" since a higher percentage of Hispanics, Blacks and Indians might fail it; and, over the past thee years, the test has been watered down again and again, and delayed to the point where it is completely meaningless.

But just because the government secondary schools are run by losers doesn't mean that you can't get the education you need; you just have to work for it.

I was horrid in math in high school, and took an undergrad degree in English Lit simply because it had no math requirements. In my forties, in order to get ahead in my job, I went back to the university to get a degree in Logistics Engineering; the math was not nearly as hard as I thought it would be.

My son is a sophomore in college and I told him that if he took math through calculus and science through physics in high school, I'd buy him a car. Now he's an engineering major and will probably end up with a good job paying good money.

The point is that the responsibility for education in math and science is the student's and his or her parents'; the education is out there. If you personally don't have any background in science and math, it's probably not too late to get it, and if you choose not to, you can always stuff it down your kids' throats; believe me, they will thank you for it one day.

And, by the way, if you're a shiny new Ph.D. in Math or a hard science going to work for the government and don't have any experience, you would probably start as either a GS-7 step 1 ( $29,821/yr) or, more likely, a GS-9 step 1 ($36,478/yr) or even a GS-11 step 1 ($44,136/yr).

The highest you could go without management would be GS-15 step 10 which would be $113,674/yr.

You could probably make a lot more working for private industry, especially if you worked for a consulting firm.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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I don't think people with doctorates in physics work on models of economies of Wall Street; that's what a Ph.D. econometricist might do.... and as to whether or not the NSA hires more Ph.D.s in math than any other organization, I'd like to see some sort of evidence of that.


Well maybe not Physics peeps but I do know that GEO-Physist's are highly sought after(by Investment Firms) due to the fact that they deal with Fractals alot.

Here is a good book by a Geo-Physist on the Markets.

Why Stock Markets Crash by Didier Sornette. I understood the book barely and it has helped my investing style quite a bit. I just wish I understood the math a bit more thougholy.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I don't think people with doctorates in physics work on models of economies of Wall Street; that's what a Ph.D. econometricist might do.... and as to whether or not the NSA hires more Ph.D.s in math than any other organization, I'd like to see some sort of evidence of that.


Actually, you'd be surprised. To get a PhD in Physics you need to spend a lot of time modelling. Some people do it heavier than others, but you'll have some experience in it. If you get very good at it, those skills are invaluable. Wall Street will hire you because who cares if you know what you're talking about or not, you're the guy who can do their predictions for them.


From nsa.gov

Join the country's leading employer of mathematicians and work with some of the finest minds and most powerful computers.


It's very enticing. I'd love to get my hands on one of their machines.



posted on May, 30 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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If your good enough, they will find you.

Careers for mathematics graduates are very varied, I want to stay in the theoretical side of my course (I absolutely cannot stand lab work, it is the bane of my existence). I'm reading Theoretical Physics. The first week of our mechanics lectures the lecturer basically told us that if you finish the course and get a good degree, you virtually guarenteed a job.



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