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Intel: Iran equipped for atomic weapon by North Korea!

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cjf

posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Moretti
The current international legal system starts 1945. As long as the land was won illegally (see UN resolutions on Israel), it must be given back, full stop.


Wrong, cite your case sources otherwise….


Originally posted by Moretti
You can't just kill your neighbour and live in his house. I'm not saying Israel must loose it's sovereignty over the land, but it should, at the very least pay damages to the 2 million palestinians and 2million ex-lebanese living in forced exile, for destroyed and robbed property and lost family members.


This is an extreme exxageration and oversimplification and intentionally brings only one party to bare the brunt, the pure definition of focused propaganda resulting in prolific misinformation. This region was lost long, long, long, before 1945, legally and rightfully (even by your definition) placed under the control of the British. I recommend you review the history and intent surrounding the ‘Palestinian Mandate’, ‘League of Nations’ and ‘Balfour Declaration’ simply for a start. (Off topic a bit but Napolean also agreed and lettered the intent to give to ‘Jews’ their land back). If, and only if, any damages are due, they are owed by the international community, good luck.


Originally posted by Moretti
Israel should just give the palestinians their stolen land and houses back, and pay damages, then we discuss further.


To your probable imminent irritation there will never exist a legitimate discussion on your proposed event as a whole.


Originally posted by Moretti
If you still believe all the WMD/evil muslims/we will all soon die/the final judgement is near/all bow before the "king of israel" israeli agitation bogus, i cant do anything for you.


a) Insightful.
b) Why do you presume I, or anyone else, needs you to do anything?

.




posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by colin_hal
Hello edsinger! Nice to meet you.


It was nice speaking to you, God bless you and I hope to hear from you.



Nice chatting with you also. May God also Bless you and your family.

You bring up very legit points. I can understand how you form your opinions.

As for the civilian deaths, yes there are some but just how many are committed by Muslims and not the Americans?

Turkey was a good ally for sure but when they did what they did in Iraq by not allowing us the northern bases, it dragged the war out more than it should.

As for Muslims speaking out I sure hope your right and I beg of you to POST them here at ATS as much as you can.

Sure, most in here think I hate Islam and some of that can be true but I would phrase it more like the radical Islam that I hate.

Both our religions are similar in that Islam says Christians will go to hell and visa versa but one in particular condones activities that the other does not. Not that Christianity is clean, hell far from it. The Roman Catholic church has much blood on its hands and we now pay the price of that.

When one speaks of the Crusades, and that Saladin wanted peace and offered free passage to the Holy land for Richard the Lion-Hearted and his army, and Richards reply was very un-Christian like.

As for the laws, 1945.....Israel was attacked, as it was on 1967 and 1973. How can the UN declare that an Israeli injustice?

Now for what they have done since in the conquered territories, they have not helped their case much I concede. But people strapping bombs on themselves and killing innocent doesn't help the Palestinian cause.

On thing to remember about Israel, they have had the capacity to destroy the Arab world for many years now and have not. Could the same be said in reverse?


Hate is on both sides and I would like to see the Arab world come back to what it once was, a jewel of the world. I am afraid this will not happen with the hate for the Jew. That must be overcome somehow and I am afraid that I do not think it will happen.

I do believe that Israel will be attacked again just as Ezekiel said it would.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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I don't think Arabs hate Jews, not to mention that many Arabs are Jews. I think what the Arabs are fighting against is a political, idealogical body embodied by the Israel state. Heck, many parts of Jewish religion is part of Muslim religion. As well, many of these Muslims fighting against these bodies do so from the context of their own political, idealogical body, using their religion as a crutch. This is a war between idealogies, not between religions, although some may argue religion is an idealogy, the situation is much more complex than simply a war between religions.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by cjf

Originally posted by Moretti
The current international legal system starts 1945. As long as the land was won illegally (see UN resolutions on Israel), it must be given back, full stop.


Wrong, cite your case sources otherwise….


Source is UNSC publications.



This is an extreme exxageration and oversimplification and intentionally brings only one party to bare the brunt, the pure definition of focused propaganda resulting in prolific misinformation. This region was lost long, long, long, before 1945, legally and rightfully (even by your definition) placed under the control of the British. I recommend you review the history and intent surrounding the ‘Palestinian Mandate’, ‘League of Nations’ and ‘Balfour Declaration’ simply for a start. (Off topic a bit but Napolean also agreed and lettered the intent to give to ‘Jews’ their land back). If, and only if, any damages are due, they are owed by the international community, good luck.


You miss the point. I am mainly referring to the 1982 incursions into lebanon and expansion of israel beyond it's legal borders. The creation of the state of israel, as well as the 1967 expansion have already been discussed, and UNSC settled for the 1967 borders. The war crimes commited in that context have, however, never been brought before a court.




Originally posted by Moretti
Israel should just give the palestinians their stolen land and houses back, and pay damages, then we discuss further.


To your probable imminent irritation there will never exist a legitimate discussion on your proposed event as a whole.


Why do you think so ?




Originally posted by Moretti
If you still believe all the WMD/evil muslims/we will all soon die/the final judgement is near/all bow before the "king of israel" israeli agitation bogus, i cant do anything for you.


a) Insightful.


Thank you.

(ill oversee your slander)



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by colin_hal
the_oleneo, if you visit worldnetdaily you will clearly see that they are a group of Christian extremists and tend to view muslims as their enemies. It doesn't have a single good thing to say about muslims or their faith. They are no different from Black or White Supremacists. When you consider a group of people as the "enemy".


I'm sorry to state that you are wrong about WND. Have you read its mission statement and history? www.worldnetdaily.com...

It's hardly supported by "Christian extremists". It's just, basically, an independent news-site geared for right-wing folks who have enough of liberal bias and BS from CNN, CBS, ABC or other liberal-oriented news media.

The books and other materials being displayed at WND are advertisements by sponsors willing to pay money to WND to hawk its products and keep the WND news-site subscription-free (otherwise you and I would have to pay subscription fee to read their news). Just like sponsors paying big money to advertise products or promotions on city newspapers at low cost or free. It's the same with every Internet news-site you see.


Originally posted by colin_hal
Just because they have a different Religion or happen to look different.


Yes, true. However, religious ideology is far more toxic than a religion being different. If I live in an Islamic country and I'm not a Muslim, I would be forced to pay a certain tax for some religious purposes that have nothing to do with me. In America, no one is obliged by any law to pay any tax or money for any religion and you're free to worship/practice your faith without undue obligation or persecution. That's what make America great.


Originally posted by colin_hal
If every person was out there spreading this sort of nonsense about the opposing side then we would all be in alot of trouble.


Completely agreed. Though I'm a secular Christian, I'm not always fond of extreme Christian fringe groups in America spreading foolish nonsense or paranoid ideas about everything.


Originally posted by colin_hal
I'm telling everyone I know that Americans, aren't our enemies, neither are Jews, or Israeli's etc
If you do the same then we can actually make this world better. Think about it, if each person did his share, we'd slowly be creating a better world. Not just for yourself, but for your children and future generations.


I'm very aware of that. Understand that freedom is worth fighting and dying for. I will fight and die for a better and freed world for our children, as my ancestors did for me. Peace is up to everyone but freedom is far more important than peace.

Because without freedom, you have no peace.


Originally posted by colin_hal
They have nothing good to say about muslims, neither does [hate-site-nolink] have anything good to say about Jews. Does that make them a reliable news source?


I would just stay far away from that stormfront website if I was you. Talk about toxic nonsense.


[edit on 5/28/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Yeah the same one that listened to the French, german, Russian, British, Saudi and many other Intel Agencies.....

I knew someone would try that one..still dont get it do they.

Yeah....and funny enough later on they revoked those claims....



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by edsinger
Yeah the same one that listened to the French, german, Russian, British, Saudi and many other Intel Agencies.....

I knew someone would try that one..still dont get it do they.

Yeah....and funny enough later on they revoked those claims....



Yeah sure after they were not found....hindsight is always better.

Cheap try.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
Yeah sure after they were not found....hindsight is always better.

No after they found out that the reports where not true, they where worst case scenarios and exajurated.
Foresight is always good as well...



Cheap try.

Nope, didnt cost me a thing...



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Hello the_oleneo nice to meet you, and I'm very happy to be talking to all of you here.
I wanted to point out that WND is an extremist website. I'll admit I don't know who they're owned by. You were right, but I got the impression that they were an extremist Christian website.
This is quite irrelevant to our dialogue though, because my point is that its an extremist source.

Since Extremist Christians such as jerry falwell advertise, and there are adverts of books put out by extremist, this would mean that they are being supported by Chrisitian Extremists, because they do sponsor and advertise there.

You said you're a secular Christian, so this website should have no appeal to you since its extreme.
You told me to stay away from stormfront, but this is very similar to stromfront since it criminilises one group of people.

America is a great country, with alot of freedom.
I'm not going to deny that, because its a fact.
I'm not interested in talking about religous differences since thats an argument thats going to take a very long time.
Muslim countries aren't really being run properly and alot of people are suffering.
Bribery isn't permitted in Islam, or in any other religion, sadly most of these countries are some of the most corrupt in the world.

I won't deny none of that. Yes America allows people to worship freely, thats also true. Bare in mind that alot of Muslims come to America for this reason, for the freedom because they're being persectued in their own countries.

Extremists in every country of the world have a problem with another group. They're spreading lies, distorted truths, bias, evil propaganda, that doesn't serve any purpose for making the world a better place, simply for improving theirs.
Therefore these people are racists, and we shouldn't help them spread there propaganda, unless we want them to take control.

About the tax non muslims have to pay.
Alright if you and I were living in a muslim country, I as a muslim would pay Zakah and you would Pay Jizyah.
Zakah is something that is part of my religion, I have to pay this tax, since this money goes to charity.
Since its not required of a non-muslim to pay Zakah, he has to pay Jizyah.

I agree with your point that this is probably something you don't agree with since its not in your religion.
But bare in mind that this tax is actually 10%, and since non-muslims were not required to join the army, this was seen as compensation.
Muslims pay zakah and also pay with their lives to defend non-muslims and their country.

However I have no idea whats happening now in Islamic countries since they've become extremely corrupt. What I am telling you is the truth, (God knows best) this is the best I can do to explain.

I don't want to get drawn into a religous argument, and since you are secular I don't understand why you have taken our dialogue into this direction.
Please understand that my religion condemns terror, and doesn't accept the killing of innocent people who haven't fought against you.
Nor do I want to take freedom away from you. Freedom is precious, everyone wants freedom.

If you don't believe my religion is a religion of peace then thats really up to you, but also bare in mind that there are Islamic extremists who are telling me the same thing about your religion and the Jewish religion.
But I am not listening to them, because I know how things can be taken out of context, and I don't believe in violence as a solution to problems.

But I do believe that sometimes you do have to fight to bring about peace.
If someone is persecuting you however and they're fighting you, Islam says fight them back, until you have freedom.
So I believe that Muslims should overthrow their own governments, because their leaders are the ones opressing them the most.

Then they will have freedom. Bombing them is not going to help, its going to create more enemies for America, and the extremists are going to get more attention. They will be saying, "See I told you so, Satan US, wants to destroy Islam, the crusaders must be destroyed".

Finally I want to say that Ed Singer you are a very nice person when you choose to be.
I can sense that you are a good human being, and you are not as violent as I thought you were.
Islam isn't about beheading people, or blowing yourself up to kill the enemy.

I completely condemn it, non-militants being killed or taken hostage is completely unacceptable.
Christianity teaches forgiveness, although I can take a few verses out of context and use it justify whatever I want.
The same happens with Islam, it depends how one interprets it.

Thats why we have scholars, nowadays we have very few educated scholars. Osama Bin Laden is not a scholar, he even admits that he's an extremist.
These people aren't doing Gods work, they're implementing their selfish desires.
In the Quran it states that if God wanted all people to be Muslim he would have quite clearly created all people Muslim.

In the Quran it states:
[5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men.

Not sure if you have heard of Hamza Yusuf, he's an American convert to Islam, and he's gaining alot of support amongst muslims.
Listen to this speech and tell me if he is saying anything wrong.
hxxp://www.zaytuna.org/audio/Hamza%20Yusuf%20A%20Message%20to%20Humanity.mp3

Please tell me what you think of this speech guys, the_oleneo I'm talking to you too brother.
This is the complete condemnation of terrorism, also this main is a real American Patriot, which shows how great America and Americans are.

His organisation is called Zaytuna, and he is helping creating better understanding amongst Muslims and the West.
www.zaytuna.org...

May God bless you and your families, and keep you in good strong health.
I'm glad that we can have this dialogue, and wish you all the best.
Hope to hear from you, thank you for treating me with respect, I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[edit on 29-5-2005 by colin_hal]



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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To colin_hal, thank you for your excellent insight.
I appreciated it.

For every bad follower/leader of any faith, there is always a good follower/leader of the same faith to counter them (Like bad Muslim vs good Muslim; bad Christian vs good Christian; bad Hindu vs good Hindu; bad Jew vs good Jew and so on). It is always a struggle between the bad and the good but a necessary balance in life.

Seem that you're a good Muslim and you don't listen to some poisonous or misguided rants of followers or leaders of your faith. Same with Christians. Same with Hindus. Or any other religious group. You listen to yourself, to your own heart, follow your own bliss and walk on your own path.

Unfortunately, not many people of your faith (or mine) seem to grasp it or even grasp their own fallibility. Most are under the impression that God/Allah would favor them for their deeds and expect to be rewarded, I would say they are emotionally and sentimentally arrested to the dogma (or teachings) of their faith without given careful consideration to the real spiritual purposes of that faith. That is to listen to your own heart, follow your own bliss and walk on your own path before God. Everybody else would have to find their own ways, however different from yours or mine.

This is precisely what's happening in Iran, with the current Islamic leadership seeking nuclear weapons. I mean we are talking about a bunch of old men trained and schooled in the dogma of Shia Islam (the Guardian Council and the Ayatollah) in the controls of nuclear weapons. They will see it as the divine weapon of Allah (figuratively) to be used as a blackmail method or coercing against the enemies of Allah (the West, Israel, the infidels, the Sunni, or so on). The people of Iran should elect a national leader democratically to lead Iran without any religious say-so from the Ayatollah or the Guardian Council. They can have nuclear energy to generate electricity but they cannot have nuclear weapons. Period.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by colin_halAbout the tax non muslims have to pay.Alright if you and I were living in a muslim country, I as a muslim would pay Zakah and you would Pay Jizyah.Zakah is something that is part of my religion, I have to pay this tax, since this money goes to charity.Since its not required of a non-muslim to pay Zakah, he has to pay Jizyah.


You know that is the way I read it also.......but still can you condone how other religions are treated in the Heart of Islam? The Kingdom of Saud? Is that right for them to shred my Bible when I come to do work to bring good things to their country?




Originally posted by colin_halFinally I want to say that Ed Singer you are a very nice person when you choose to be.I can sense that you are a good human being, and you are not as violent as I thought you were.Islam isn't about beheading people, or blowing yourself up to kill the enemy.



Thank you, and you are right. But when cornered I can be a damn mean S.O.B.

Islam is not about pure violence to non Muslims and I recognize this just as Christianity is not about killing all the Canaanites when we cross the Jordon River either.

But you must understand then that I find it hard to accept Islam when only one of 50 speak out. You are one of the very few here that do in the DIRECT fashion that you just did. I commend you for that and would be glad to accept you in my home for a pleasant conversation.

I will not try to convert you to Christianity and I am sure that visa versa would be true. I am sure we could have some good conversations about whether Christians believe in 3 gods or just 1. I feel it would be enlightening for both of us. But I am afraid that you are in the Minority in your religion, at least in ATS, so speak out and when ever I have questions that I need answers on Islam, I will give you a ring




Originally posted by colin_halI completely condemn it, non-militants being killed or taken hostage is completely unacceptable.
Christianity teaches forgiveness, although I can take a few verses out of context and use it justify whatever I want.The same happens with Islam, it depends how one interprets it.



See above and you are 100% correct, just as the Old and New Testaments can be corrupted for ones selfish purposes and has been over the last 2000 years.


Originally posted by colin_halThats why we have scholars, nowadays we have very few educated scholars. Osama Bin Laden is not a scholar, he even admits that he's an extremist.These people aren't doing Gods work, they're implementing their selfish desires.In the Quran it states that if God wanted all people to be Muslim he would have quite clearly created all people Muslim.



OK folks, just how many Muslims have you heard admit that here on ATS.

colin_hal
, that is a first for me here.

(If I had a way above left, you would have just got one!)




Originally posted by colin_halMay God bless you and your families, and keep you in good strong health.I'm glad that we can have this dialogue, and wish you all the best.Hope to hear from you, thank you for treating me with respect, I hope I haven't offended anyone.




You have not even come close to offending me in the least and I can not see how anyone can even think such. You I commend for being calm and stating things with no agenda. I feel that I can talk with you anytime, and if you have any questions that I can help with please feel free to U2U me.

You give Islam a good name......






[edit on 29-5-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Jun, 2 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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Sorry for my late reply


Thank you very much Ed Singer and the_oleneo I appreciate your warmth and kind words.
I wish you both the best and glad to have had this talk with you.
Peace be upon you and all the users on this forum.

the_oleneo you used the term struggle.



For every bad follower/leader of any faith, there is always a good follower/leader of the same faith to counter them (Like bad Muslim vs good Muslim; bad Christian vs good Christian; bad Hindu vs good Hindu; bad Jew vs good Jew and so on). It is always a struggle between the bad and the good...


The word jihad means "struggle". To struggle in the way of God, not to spread mischief in the land.
When the Muslims had fought the Arab Pagans, they were rejoicing after winning their battle. The Prophet (PBUH) told them that they had finished the lesser jihad (struggle in God way) and now its time for the bigger jihad.

When they heard this they were shocked, since they had fought with their lives for the way of God, but this was considered as the lesser jihad.
So what was the the bigger jihad?
Well its the struggle of good and evil within oneself.
This means that you don't become arrogant, always keep yourself in check, make sure you don't upset other people, tell the truth, don't be rude, etc.

Its to purify oneself. Now you go to Arab/Muslim countries you see people eagerly handing out fatwa's, which during the prophets time the Muslims dreaded.
Definition of fatwa
Because you simply had to review the religious opinion over many times, for the fear of angering God, and one would utter "God knows best".

Speaking for God and our prophet (PBUH) is a major crime. This is something that is happening quite often by people who have been blinded by the light of God, rather than guided.

Also we as Muslims shouldn't raise our voices even during protest.
When Moses (PBUH) went up against pharoah according to the Quran, God commanded him to speak mildly.
[20:44] "Speak to him nicely; he may take heed, or become reverent."

Another Quranic verse mentioning the advice luqman gave to his son
31:19 "And be moderate in thy pace, and lower thy voice; for the harshest of sounds without doubt is the braying of the ass."

In some Muslim countries you see people screaming and shouting at the top of their voice, saying "Down with the US" for example.
And burning the US flag. This is completely un-Islamic, and is an act of ignorance.

There are many things I could describe that are simply un-islamic, but Muslims are doing them any way. Its due to ignorance, and taking things out of context. Each chapter of the Quran should be read with the appropriate commentary, otherwise its hard to understand.

Let it be known, that I do not want to appear like a good muslim in peoples eyes. We are all sinful, its an ongoing struggle within oneself to rid himself of his evils.

the_oleneo, as much as I am against Iran's regime since its an opressive one I don't believe they are a big threat, and even if they were they'll never be a bigger threat than North Korea.
Afterall, we were all led to believe that Saddam had WMD. We shouldn't be blowing things way out of proportion and put fear into others.
This is what the terrorists do, they instill fear to create division.

edsinger, you make some excellent points and I would love to have private conversations with you, and willing to learn more about your feelings.



but still can you condone how other religions are treated in the Heart of Islam? The Kingdom of Saud? Is that right for them to shred my Bible when I come to do work to bring good things to their country?


I haven't heard about such a case of bible shredding. I don't know much about what goes on in Saudi Arabia, but I do know that its a bad example of a Muslim country. Much of the corruption that goes on I cannot defend.
Infact let me ask you a question, do you know that there are homeless people starving on the streets in Saudi Arabia?
www.ccc.nps.navy.mil...
20-30% of the population are below the poverty line.

If its such a rich country, and such a great Muslim country, why are people starving?
Since every muslim has to pay Zakat (money to the needy), where is all this money going? No one could say that the rich of Saudi Arabia don't have enough to go around the poor, since all of them live in luxury with many servants, many cars and mansions.



But you must understand then that I find it hard to accept Islam when only one of 50 speak out. You are one of the very few here that do in the DIRECT fashion that you just did. I commend you for that and would be glad to accept you in my home for a pleasant conversation.


Many speak out my friend, its just that the minority of extremists have an effect on the majority and their voices seem to be louder.
Since illiteracy in the Arab/Muslim world is above 50%, which means there is little education I am not surprised.
Especially with the opression, the governments put out scapegoats so that the people do not think about their own opressive leaders.

Having said that Muslims are suffering, and the majority of people being killed are Muslims, this is around the whole globe. This is a fact.
I believe this is a mercy from God since we should be punished even more for damaging the image of Islam.
Thank God however that we're slowly moving out of this phase, its going to take time.

I knew you were stupid, or a racist. Thank you for inviting me to your home, you are also welcome in mine
But bare in mind that I live in the UK.
Thank you for your compliments, please keep in touch.
You are a good human being, I honestly believe that.

God Bless you all and your families. Nice talking to all of you.



posted on Jun, 3 2005 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by colin_hal

I haven't heard about such a case of bible shredding. I don't know much about what goes on in Saudi Arabia, but I do know that its a bad example of a Muslim country. Much of the corruption that goes on I cannot defend.
Infact let me ask you a question, do you know that there are homeless people starving on the streets in Saudi Arabia?
www.ccc.nps.navy.mil...
20-30% of the population are below the poverty line.


Greetings wise one. That absolutely floored me. Are these Palestinians? I mean I know that the Saudis treat Palestinians like the Southern USA treated Black folks in the early part of the century. Are these Saudi citizens that are homeless?


Originally posted by colin_halIf its such a rich country, and such a great Muslim country, why are people starving?Since every muslim has to pay Zakat (money to the needy), where is all this money going? No one could say that the rich of Saudi Arabia don't have enough to go around the poor, since all of them live in luxury with many servants, many cars and mansions.


Man that is worth starting a thread on itself. The leading Muslim country doesn't seem to be reading the Koran now does it? Well the US is no different as we have homeless also but the Churchs here will feed them and do other things at times.

Please start a thread on this very subject as it will mean much more coming from you.

Again it has been a pleasure and you bring a refreshing side to Islam, you might just change my opinion of it yet...



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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Bush will start the III World War and there won't be another US president after him. The US will be destroyed and Bush will escape to Vega.
The current US policy is too aggressive and disrespectful of other countries sovereignty.



posted on Jun, 4 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by WisdomMasterBush will start the III World War and there won't be another US president after him. The US will be destroyed and Bush will escape to Vega.


Will his escape vehicle be a refurbished Pinto?



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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daccessdds.un.org...

November 29th 1947 U.N. Resolution 181, stated:

A) The Partition of Palestine
B) No country should have control of Jerusalum, Temple Mount, etc instead the U.N. should Police it.

---

Guess who broke U.N. Resolution 181 first?
Irgun who refused to lay down their weapons, the war of 1948 (Independence War) was actually fully legal because they(Irgun) did not disarm and leave Jerusalum like they had agreed to.

Just another nice piece of information for you:
In 1940 and 1941, Lehi proposed intervening in the Second World War on the side of Nazi Germany to attain their help in expelling Britain from Mandate Palestine and to offer their assistance in "evacuating" the Jews of Europe arguing that "common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO (Lehi)." Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik was sent to Beirut where he met the German official Werner Otto von Hentig and delivered a letter from Lehi offering to "actively take part in the war on Germany's side" in return for German support for "the establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich". Von Hentig forwarded the letter to the German embassy in Ankara, but there is no record of any official response. Lehi tried to establish contact with the Germans again in December 1941, also apparently without success.

Even while Germany was conducting the "Final Solution" which Levi knew about they were attempting to side with Nazi Germany. Furthermore, these same people who were willing to side with Nazi Germany later became important members of the Israeli Defence Force.

Oh yeah and something Theodor Herzl (Modern Father of Zionism) said:
“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

"So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt."

“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German; whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“. (1921)

"The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it."

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

Sorry about taking this off topic, but if you're going to bring in Israel or any other nation you need to look up the facts instead of going off of what the Television tells you.




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