Nukes best thing that happend to Japan.

Originally posted by chebob
nothing anyone has said has justified dropping those nukes. America, being the superpower as it is, and all it's allies, could have easily forced Japan to surrender with few casualties.......excuses like "they were training everyone to kill us" are just that, excuses. There was no thought or reason behind those attacks other than laziness and evil.

You are talking absolute rubbish.
You are comparing a war of over 50 years ago to todays methods of warfare.
As for "The US could have easily forced Japan to surrender" - you are overlooking a major flaw in your argument.
THEY WOULDN'T EVEN SURRENDER AFTER THE DROPPING OF THE BOMB AT HIROSHIMA. IT TOOK TWO BOMBS!!!!
If they wouldn't surrender after an atomic strike, what the hell did you expect the US to use to make them listen to them next? Harsh language?

You obviously don't understand a thing about Japanese culture or history. The codes which they lived by. The Godlike status of the Emporer. The fanaticism and the outlook of their civilian population which was identical to their military's.

It's lucky for you that other people did read up on the subject at the time though. Otherwise you would be eating Sushi for breakfast and Sumo would be the US national sport.

Yeah, it sucks that the bomb was dropped. But you want to blame somebody? Blame Hirohito. That bastard should have been hung.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


We bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.your point? So? We did it.

I think you would have been a lot better off just saying that, as everything else is just Anti-European nonsense. Europe has nothing to do with Hiroshima, and nothing to do with the topic. I don't hate Americans because of the nukes - but to say that dropping them was A GOOD THING??? It's just sick.

Now both FreeMason AND Skadi have dragged themselves down into Europe bashing for no reason. I wonder why...............

Originally posted by chebob
Europe has nothing to do with Hiroshima, and nothing to do with the topic.

You are an ignorant fool sir.
Europe had everything to do wth it.

Or weren't you aware that this was part of WORLD WAR 2?

I actually think the Bush administration killed democracy once and for all in the states, Arnald Governator's little adventure this year is more proof of the joke the US political system has become.

If the US was a democracy the Al Gore would be the President (sorry to make all the rebublicans cry again, but hey your guy one, who cares if he cheated?)

Now, the atomic bomb being dropped on Japan, well i think there is a case for dropping one, but not the second.

history1900s.about.com...

history1900s.about.com...://www.nvccom.co.jp/abomb/giseie.html

It is certainly not fair to criticize the US too heavily for these crimes, after all the US did not start World War 2, and who knows what state the world would be in if the allies had lost WW2, it doesn't bare thinking about.

Everything that happened in that war was horrific, whether the victims were German, British, Chinese, Korean, American, or Japanese, but once we (the allies) were at war, horrible crimes were unfortunately necessary to defeat the Nazi's and the Japs.

Originally posted by Peace
It is certainly not fair to criticize the US too heavily for these crimes

Your colours still shine through with the use of the word "crimes" though.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by chebob
Europe has nothing to do with Hiroshima, and nothing to do with the topic.

You are an ignorant fool sir.
Europe had everything to do wth it.

Or weren't you aware that this was part of WORLD WAR 2?

Ok, Europe were part of World War 2. Therefore, by FreeMasons theory, it was right to nuke Japan because the Spanish were "filthy" and they made the Inquisition. It doesn't add up. Can you please tell me why Spain has anything to do with the decision to drop a nuke on Japan? Wether you think it was right to do so or not, you cannot justify it by saying "You Europeans have done bad things ttoo, so shut the hell up", THAT is idiocy. This discussion has been marred by the fact that a few people who have studied History have decided that BECAUSE they studied WW2 their opinion is THE ONLY OPINION. Bull#. I studied WW2 for 4 years, I kow what happened. I don't know what WOULD have happened, because I'm not psychic. All I'm saying is that I THINK there WAS more humane ways to make Japan surrender, despite all the "Every Japanese Civilian was an armed commando capable of wiping out 100's of soldiers." propoganda. Yes, I too have studied Japanese history and culture. I can safely say that the Japanese population were NOT fanatics as you have painted them to be. Some, yes. All, no. Most, no. And I think the same would have been true for America. How many Americans will Ever give up ANYTHING, even in war? I don't think if we were at war now and Americans decided to stick up for their country, it would justify nuking an American city.

What is with telling us how bad the Japanese military were all the time? Haven't we heard the same tales about Saddam Hussein? Yes, Japanese officials were evil. Yes, Saddam Hussein is evil. What you want us to believe is that the Japanese civilians liked seeing Chinese used as shooting practice. You want us to think they WANTED it to happen. But that is just bull# propoganda once again. Why is it that if todays government trys to sell us propoganda, you see right through it. But if propoganda had been issued in History, like the crap about every Jap civilian being a kamikaze killer, it is unscrupilized, taken for truth and stamped with the USA mark of approval.....Lies are lies, no matter how old those lies are.

Ok, now it's time to call me an idiot for disagreeing with you again......It's the least I expect.

Originally posted by chebob
Ok, Europe were part of World War 2. Therefore, by FreeMasons theory, it was right to nuke Japan because the Spanish were "filthy" and they made the Inquisition. It doesn't add up.

Who gives a crap about what Freemason thinks of Spain?
Is it my fault that you're gullible enough to fall for his trolling?

Originally posted by chebob
All I'm saying is that I THINK there WAS more humane ways to make Japan surrender, despite all the "Every Japanese Civilian was an armed commando capable of wiping out 100's of soldiers." propoganda. Yes, I too have studied Japanese history and culture. I can safely say that the Japanese population were NOT fanatics as you have painted them to be.

Ok, now it's time to call me an idiot for disagreeing with you again......It's the least I expect.

Idiot. (I aim to please)

You haven't studied very hard then.

There were more humane ways to make the Japanese surrender. Well Einstein, pray do tell. If you can give us a way maybe we'll be able to use it in future wars. Of course, you could also be up for a Nobel Peace prize as no bugger else has ever come up with a more convincing or humane way of ending the war other than dropping the bomb. Pray do enlighten us.

" I can safely say that the Japanese population were NOT fanatics as you have painted them to be. "
And I can safely say that you are talking crap.
OK, I concede that you might have actually had one or two (well maybe one) who wasn't a fanatic, but the vast majority of their population was even more fanatical than the Nazis. Or did it never occur to you that there was a reason why the Japanese kept on fighting even after the Germans had surrendered?


[Edited on 10-8-2003 by Leveller]

Ok Leveller, you win. Nukes are the best thing in the world, I want one for christmas. There is no point arguing with you any further because your entire argument is basd on "I'm right, you're an idiot". I'm sure that once the Japanese military and ruling power were defeated in land war, the civilians would have just kept killing everyone. They were sick bastards weren't they. The American and Brittish army were crap. They could never have defeated Japan. Japan weilded the power of 10,000 countrys, and any attempt at "Noraml" war would have resulted in an early Armageddon. But who cares, we melted their families and flattened their citys. That taught the cheeky Japs.

Okay, I've lowered myself to your level of thinking, It's time for me to stop "being an idiot", because as we all now know, Nukes are cool.

Originally posted by chebob
Ok Leveller, you win. Nukes are the best thing in the world, I want one for christmas. There is no point arguing with you any further because your entire argument is basd on "I'm right, you're an idiot". I'm sure that once the Japanese military and ruling power were defeated in land war, the civilians would have just kept killing everyone. They were sick bastards weren't they. The American and Brittish army were crap. They could never have defeated Japan. Japan weilded the power of 10,000 countrys, and any attempt at "Noraml" war would have resulted in an early Armageddon. But who cares, we melted their families and flattened their citys. That taught the cheeky Japs.

Okay, I've lowered myself to your level of thinking, It's time for me to stop "being an idiot", because as we all now know, Nukes are cool.

Glad that you finally saw the light.
And I have to admit. I totally agree with the "Leveller's right, Chebobs an idiot" comment.
See!!! We do have some common ground!!!

My case in point.

EUROPE STARTED WORLD WAR 2, YOU HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HIROSHIMA.

The Japanese did not wake the sleeping giant, Europe did, twice in a row because they were too incompetant to handle thier own internal affairs. Germany allied with Japan, the war in Europe had nothing to do with us, yet through European alliances, we were dragged in to yet another EUROPEAN war. World War 1. Nothing to do with us. yet we got puleld in.

If Europe has such a problem with the way the US handled the Japanese problem, they should have thought of that before starting the wars.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were some how worse than what Britain did to Dresden? What the Germans did to Warsaw? What the Russians did to Berlin? All three campaigns killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki did, and kileld them most INHUMANELY. I will say this again, my ex boyfriends dad survived Dresden. He wasnt even German, hes was Lithiuanian fleeing the fury of the red army. He lived only because he was underground. Anyone who wasnt undergound died, and died horribly. Firebombings are really nasty ways to kill people. They slow cook to death. Even underground, his father recieved heat injuries from the fires above, seeping underground into cellars so bad he dehydrated, and an enlderly woman beneath with them died. And Hiroshima was the only evil of the war?

Europe practically invented cruel ways to kill people. You mastered the art of invention of weapons of mass destruction. You razed entire cities and villages to the ground, displaced millions from thier homes. You destroyed historical monuments, works of art, and fairy tale cities.

WHY COULDN'T YOU FIND HUMANE WAYS TO MAKE THE GERMANS SURRENDER? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Don't insult me with your sanctimonious musings. If you had discovered the bomb before we did, you would have dropped it on Berlin quicker than you can say "wienerschnitzel".

My case in point.

EUROPE STARTED WORLD WAR 2, YOU HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HIROSHIMA.

The Japanese did not wake the sleeping giant, Europe did, twice in a row because they were too incompetant to handle thier own internal affairs. Germany allied with Japan, the war in Europe had nothing to do with us, yet through European alliances, we were dragged in to yet another EUROPEAN war. World War 1. Nothing to do with us. yet we got puleld in.

If Europe has such a problem with the way the US handled the Japanese problem, they should have thought of that before starting the wars.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were some how worse than what Britain did to Dresden? What the Germans did to Warsaw? What the Russians did to Berlin? All three campaigns killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki did, and kileld them most INHUMANELY. I will say this again, my ex boyfriends dad survived Dresden. He wasnt even German, hes was Lithiuanian fleeing the fury of the red army. He lived only because he was underground. Anyone who wasnt undergound died, and died horribly. Firebombings are really nasty ways to kill people. They slow cook to death. Even underground, his father recieved heat injuries from the fires above, seeping underground into cellars so bad he dehydrated, and an enlderly woman beneath with them died. And Hiroshima was the only evil of the war?

Europe practically invented cruel ways to kill people. You mastered the art of invention of weapons of mass destruction. You razed entire cities and villages to the ground, displaced millions from thier homes. You destroyed historical monuments, works of art, and fairy tale cities.

WHY COULDN'T YOU FIND HUMANE WAYS TO MAKE THE GERMANS SURRENDER? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Don't insult me with your sanctimonious musings. If you had discovered the bomb before we did, you would have dropped it on Berlin quicker than you can say "wienerschnitzel".

Dresden was a terrible thing, i agree. Things happen in war that we wish hadnt such as the A bombs and Dresden. What we can do is strive prevent them happening again.
As for Europeans starting the 2 wars, yes they did i cant really coment on the first war as its not my area. But the second war Britain had no choice but to fight we had tried Diplomacy and appeasement but that just made things worse. We had to draw a line in the sand somewhere and Poland was it. We fought alone for a long time, we stood against the Nazis alone one small country against the might of the German Armed forces. But we were up against an impossible task. We had to turn to someone for help and the US did help , and thank god they did because without lease lend we would have lost in the early part of the war. The Pres at the time wanted to come into the war on the side of the uk as he saw what a threat the Nazi were but congress would not have allowed it. As a nation we owe the US out thanks, but with the situation at the time it really was a matter of time before the US were dragged in. To say we were incompitent is an insult to every British and Commenwealth Soldier, Sailor and Air force man and woman that gave thier live in those dark days.

I agree with you. And I am glad America helped, it was great. In fact, I'm going to give up and say MAYBE the nukes were "necessary". But I don't think they were GOOD in any way, I wouldn't have wished that on anyone.

I just oppose the view that "Nukes were the best thing to happen to the Japanese", it's a ridiculous comment. I am not anti-american and I'm not using this thread to bash the US government, so I don't know why everyone is now bashing europe......thats what confuses me.

On that i think we can both agree

Originally posted by chebob
I agree with you. And I am glad America helped, it was great. In fact, I'm going to give up and say MAYBE the nukes were "necessary". But I don't think they were GOOD in any way, I wouldn't have wished that on anyone.

I just oppose the view that "Nukes were the best thing to happen to the Japanese", it's a ridiculous comment. I am not anti-american and I'm not using this thread to bash the US government, so I don't know why everyone is now bashing europe......thats what confuses me.

They are bashing Europe because of me.. A told them couple truhts about America and they got offended.. and now they are mainly attacking my charrecter this Skandi_the_evil_elf especially..

[Edited on 10-8-2003 by Uninen]

Bro, what did you do this time?

Originally posted by RogueTrooper
Bro, what did you do this time?

Couple of things.. i claimed that they revenged the Pearl Harbor thing with to atom bombs that were dropped against civilians.. i also told them that the Japanese air raid was dedected by radar long before the bombs started to fall from the sky.. but that no interceptors were lauched as the officer in charge at the radar station told the operator to forget what he had seen in the radar screen.. (You can verify this by looking the world at war series..) and i allso told them that their democracy was a joke.. that sort of things i did..



[Edited on 10-8-2003 by Uninen]

Couple of things.. i claimed that they revenged the Pearl Harbor thing with to atom bombs that were dropped against civilians.. i also told them that the Japanese air raid was dedected by radar long before the bombs started to fall from the sky.. but that no interceptors were lauched as the officer in charge at the radar station told the operator to forget what he had seen in the radar screen.. (You can verify this by looking the world at war series..) and i allso told them that their democracy was a joke.. that sort of things i did..

Well if you were looking for a good flaming that would prob do it

Yeah.. i just think this whole a-bomb bussines is fcked up.. im in too good MOOD for this right now..

Damn typos.. they allways get me..

[Edited on 11-8-2003 by Uninen]

[Edited on 11-8-2003 by Uninen]